Xbox One is built for the future

[HawkMan]

i dont want a device that does it all, why do i need three devices just to watch tv?? isnt that a waste of power when we should be cutting back? Look the xboxone looks great, there are alot of great hardware in it, but for me i just want to turn on my console see my current installed games, play what i want turn it off. I dont want ads about movies or music put in ads for games sure! BTW i have steam big picture hooked up and when i change to HDMI2 i have three options STORE LIBRARY COMMUNITY, Looks clean simple great imho.

 

the tuner is on all the time anyway. though it automatically goes into a power save mode if the device that receives it's signal is off. but I only turn off the surround receiver at night anyway. Anyway. being able to watch TV split screen or PiP while gaming, Awesome, being able to have a game in a PiP while watching TV, awesome. being able to quickly switch between TV and Gaming or whatever I do on the console, Awesome. None of these devices use particularly much power anyway. 

[HawkMan]

Look at the screenshots for the X1, the Home screen is devoid of ALL ads. The only 'ads' is the recommended section, which will change based on what you use the X1 for.

I really don't see the difference between Steam big picture mode and the X1. It may have more sections across the top, but it doesn't seem to get in the way of me playing my games when I want to.

As far as not wanting an all in one solution, the unfortunate truth is that all of these companies are going that way. The PS4 does this, Valve's SteamOS/Steambox will does this, and of course the X1 does this.

The era of gaming-only devices is gone at least for the moment. Heck, even the OUYA is an all-in-one device.

Xbox needs more categories than Steam does anyway, since steam only does games(atm) while the xbox also does your music, videos and system settings and apps. 

 

Expect SteamOS to be at least as "complex" as XboxOS since it's trying to do all the same things as well, and that will probably translate down to Big Picture mode, it would be silly for Valve to add media support only to SteamOS and not to Steam and Big Picture mode. 

[JonnyLH]

Calling something with non-upgradable hardware "future proof"... ROFLMAO.

Changing hardware makes something future proof? That's getting a new device, not being future proofed.

 

Only fixed hardware can be considered future proofed, logic?

[BajiRav]

i dont want a device that does it all, why do i need three devices just to watch tv?? isnt that a waste of power when we should be cutting back? Look the xboxone looks great, there are alot of great hardware in it, but for me i just want to turn on my console see my current installed games, play what i want turn it off. I dont want ads about movies or music put in ads for games sure! BTW i have steam big picture hooked up and when i change to HDMI2 i have three options STORE LIBRARY COMMUNITY, Looks clean simple great imho.

SteamOS is based on Linux, isn't it? Where is your "Terminal" tab?

[spudtrooper]

Xbox needs more categories than Steam does anyway, since steam only does games(atm) while the xbox also does your music, videos and system settings and apps. 

 

Expect SteamOS to be at least as "complex" as XboxOS since it's trying to do all the same things as well, and that will probably translate down to Big Picture mode, it would be silly for Valve to add media support only to SteamOS and not to Steam and Big Picture mode. 

 

 

I could have sworn i read somewhere that Valve is already doing deals with netflix, spotify and other services..  I can't imagine they could sell anything if all it did was steamcast games when the market has moved on.

[AJerman]

Hate to point it out to you but PS4 has pretty much exact same feature set as XB1, here is a handy list

-TV (HDMI or streaming)

-Game recording

-Social sharing

-Motion controls with Kinect/Move

-Movies/Music service 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. As far as that goes, the 360 and PS3 have a lot of those features too. However none of them focused so much on these features, they were more of a side thing thrown in as an extra. The X1 is aimed to be a full entertainment device to a point where in it's official unveiling they barely even talked about games. I'm not sure why you'd try to downplay the fact that the X1 has a large focus on extra media features, it's a good thing for most people, but for me it's unnecessary and not worth the extra cost (nor is the Kinect). I'm certainly not saying they are going to produce crappy games because of it, but if I add everything up with what I want and don't want, the extra media features, the Kinect, the extra $100, and a less powerful platform (though I highly doubt that will make a huge difference), the PS4 makes far more sense for me. You don't have to defend the X1, I'm not saying anything bad about it, I'm just saying it does fit what I'm looking for.

 

Hell, I may scrap my PS4 pre-order and just build a monster computer instead, though as little gaming as I do, none of it is on a computer, but being pluged into my TV there's no reason not to. If I did that I'd probably get a X1 controller though to use.

[spudtrooper]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. As far as that goes, the 360 and PS3 have a lot of those features too. However none of them focused so much on these features, they were more of a side thing thrown in as an extra. The X1 is aimed to be a full entertainment device to a point where in it's official unveiling they barely even talked about games. I'm not sure why you'd try to downplay the fact that the X1 has a large focus on extra media features, it's a good thing for most people, but for me it's unnecessary and not worth the extra cost (nor is the Kinect). I'm certainly not saying they are going to produce crappy games because of it, but if I add everything up with what I want and don't want, the extra media features, the Kinect, the extra $100, and a less powerful platform (though I highly doubt that will make a huge difference), the PS4 makes far more sense for me. You don't have to defend the X1, I'm not saying anything bad about it, I'm just saying it does fit what I'm looking for.

 

Hell, I may scrap my PS4 pre-order and just build a monster computer instead, though as little gaming as I do, none of it is on a computer, but being pluged into my TV there's no reason not to. If I did that I'd probably get a X1 controller though to use.

 

 

Do whatever you wish, either way, you're making some rather poor assumptions because reality is, no one has an X1 or PS4 yet to even compare the value proposition of the two.

 

There is a lot done on both systems that play purely into numbers games but numbers rarely translate into pure performance. for example  My ATI with 2000 stream processors can't keep up with an Nvidia with 768 cores yet the nvidia had slower ram and fewer cores.. it was just engineered better with better design.  We'll have to wait and see how that fleshes out int he console war but just buy whatever you want to buy.

 

You're hole spiel on how gamey a system is though is just pure BS...   especially considering a lot of people only bought a PS3 because it had bluray

[AJerman]

Do whatever you wish, either way, you're making some rather poor assumptions because reality is, no one has an X1 or PS4 yet to even compare the value proposition of the two.

 

There is a lot done on both systems that play purely into numbers games but numbers rarely translate into pure performance. for example  My ATI with 2000 stream processors can't keep up with an Nvidia with 768 cores yet the nvidia had slower ram and fewer cores.. it was just engineered better with better design.  We'll have to wait and see how that fleshes out int he console war but just buy whatever you want to buy.

 

You're hole spiel on how gamey a system is though is just pure BS...   especially considering a lot of people only bought a PS3 because it had bluray

Thanks for making the poor assumption that I'm making a poor assumption about what my personal preferences are. I'll give you a call at lunch so you can tell me what I want to eat.

[BajiRav]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. As far as that goes, the 360 and PS3 have a lot of those features too. However none of them focused so much on these features, they were more of a side thing thrown in as an extra. The X1 is aimed to be a full entertainment device to a point where in it's official unveiling they barely even talked about games. I'm not sure why you'd try to downplay the fact that the X1 has a large focus on extra media features, it's a good thing for most people, but for me it's unnecessary and not worth the extra cost (nor is the Kinect). I'm certainly not saying they are going to produce crappy games because of it, but if I add everything up with what I want and don't want, the extra media features, the Kinect, the extra $100, and a less powerful platform (though I highly doubt that will make a huge difference), the PS4 makes far more sense for me. You don't have to defend the X1, I'm not saying anything bad about it, I'm just saying it does fit what I'm looking for.

 

Hell, I may scrap my PS4 pre-order and just build a monster computer instead, though as little gaming as I do, none of it is on a computer, but being pluged into my TV there's no reason not to. If I did that I'd probably get a X1 controller though to use.

I am just pointing out that all the "extras" and "Focus on extra features" is equal on both sides. I am not defending X1 (not even buying it this year) but your reasoning is just unclear.

The initial reveal point has been debunked many times. Microsoft had specifically said that reveal will happen in two stages and they showed plenty of games at E3.

[firey]

the tuner is on all the time anyway. though it automatically goes into a power save mode if the device that receives it's signal is off. but I only turn off the surround receiver at night anyway. Anyway. being able to watch TV split screen or PiP while gaming, Awesome, being able to have a game in a PiP while watching TV, awesome. being able to quickly switch between TV and Gaming or whatever I do on the console, Awesome. None of these devices use particularly much power anyway. 

See.. I think PIP is just annoying.  It's a cool feature for say... seeing the score of a game or browsing other shows while having the one you were watching on still.

However I could never see playing a game while watching TV useful, unless it was something fancy like if you sit on Side A you see the TV Show, and if you sit on SideB you see the game.. that way couple could both use the TV.  Otherwise.. why watch TV and play a game?

Switching from TV show to Game is already super easy.. I press input on the TV Remote to switch from Cable to HDMI 2 and boom.. in game.

[BajiRav]

See.. I think PIP is just annoying.  It's a cool feature for say... seeing the score of a game or browsing other shows while having the one you were watching on still.

However I could never see playing a game while watching TV useful, unless it was something fancy like if you sit on Side A you see the TV Show, and if you sit on SideB you see the game.. that way couple could both use the TV.  Otherwise.. why watch TV and play a game?

Switching from TV show to Game is already super easy.. I press input on the TV Remote to switch from Cable to HDMI 2 and boom.. in game.

Well what you have now:

1. Pause game

2. Switch input from game to TV

3. Watch MyFavoriteShow (change channel if you have to)

4. Switch input from TV to game

5. Resume game

vs.

1. Xbox, watch MyFavoriteShow

2. Xbox, play MyFavoriteGame

[Athernar]

SteamOS is based on Linux, isn't it? Where is your "Terminal" tab?

 

Xbox One is based on Windows, isn't it? Where is your "Blue Screen of Death"?

 

:rolleyes:

[BajiRav]

Xbox One is based on Windows, isn't it? Where is your "Blue Screen of Death"?

 

:rolleyes:

BSOD stopped being a problem since Windows Vista*. Terminal is still very much a necessity on Linux.

*discounting the fact that Xbox is just WinNT not the entire Windows.

[spudtrooper]

Thanks for making the poor assumption that I'm making a poor assumption about what my personal preferences are. I'll give you a call at lunch so you can tell me what I want to eat.

 

 

I'll be waiting for the call.

 

Are you seriously claiming you have empirical knowledge of the devices now? I have no problems with personal preferences, just don't make assumptions without having all the facts and claiming those assumptions as reasons others should follow your personal preference.

[AJerman]

Wow, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here. Only on Neowin do the MS fan boys argue with you when you say an MS product is better. You guys are ridiculous.  :rolleyes: That's what I get for trying to have a civil discussion and add my opinion in the gaming section.

 

 

I'll be waiting for the call.

 

Are you seriously claiming you have empirical knowledge of the devices now? I have no problems with personal preferences, just don't make assumptions without having all the facts and claiming those assumptions as reasons others should follow your personal preference.

I'll be waiting for you to quote where I said anything even remotely close to that.

[Athernar]

BSOD stopped being a problem since Windows Vista*. Terminal is still very much a necessity on Linux.

*discounting the fact that Xbox is just WinNT not the entire Windows.

 

Terminals are only a necessity if you insist on mucking around with the OS, that's not going to be the case with a HTPC setup.

 

Just FYI, a BSOD is a kernel panic - so NT is the affected component.

 

Ooh ooh I know, Xbox One is full of viruses too because Windows is insecure!!! You buy Norton otherwise you'll get hack and they'll steal your megahertz!!!1111

 

:rolleyes:

[trooper11]

The X1 is aimed to be a full entertainment device to a point where in it's official unveiling they barely even talked about games. I'm not sure why you'd try to downplay the fact that the X1 has a large focus on extra media features, it's a good thing for most people, but for me it's unnecessary and not worth the extra cost (nor is the Kinect). I'm certainly not saying they are going to produce crappy games because of it, but if I add everything up with what I want and don't want, the extra media features, the Kinect, the extra $100, and a less powerful platform (though I highly doubt that will make a huge difference), the PS4 makes far more sense for me. You don't have to defend the X1, I'm not saying anything bad about it, I'm just saying it does fit what I'm looking for.

 

Hell, I may scrap my PS4 pre-order and just build a monster computer instead, though as little gaming as I do, none of it is on a computer, but being pluged into my TV there's no reason not to. If I did that I'd probably get a X1 controller though to use.

I think the reason that people try to debunk the idea that MS is somehow all in on media and Sony is not is because people will use it as a reason to not buy an X1. The only reason people think this is due to marketing. Sony succeeding in making it look like all they care about is gaming and MS focused too much on non gaming features. The reality is that both are pursuing media features and want their device to be the all in one device in your theater room. Sony is pursuing a cable tv-like service as we speak based on the leaks a while back. Sony is also trying to roll out their 4k streaming service to the console asap.

The point is, its just marketing fluff. These guys have the same goals, they just talk about it differently. They are both pushing gaming while at the same time trying to expand the base of users.

Now, for you in particular, I think everyone needs to lay off. Your not saying that you would not buy an X1 due to it having these media features. Your issues relate to it being less powerful on paper, the $100 price difference and the inclusion of Kinect, which you don't care for.

So you throw in all of those minuses and then find out you don't like the launch lineup or games announced, that seals it.

If I felt as you did about those things, I would choose the ps4 easily, as long as it had a launch lineup I wanted.

You mentioned building a gaming pc. Yeah, you could do that if you aren't very interested in the ps4 launch lineup, but then again, your going to be paying for a system that is not exactly focused on gaming being a pc. Whatever you do for your gaming needs, just make sure there is plenty of content to satisfy you. Maybe you buy nothing right now and just wait for prices to come down on the consoles and more games to come out.

 

Xbox One is based on Windows, isn't it? Where is your "Blue Screen of Death"?

 

:rolleyes:

I knew you would be attracted to that comment.

Yeah, its pretty silly to poke fun at Linux like that, as much as it is with Windows.

Besides, SteamOS will be presented in a way that the end user will not even realize its running Linux in the traditional sense. It'll be presented more like the Xbox OS.

[trooper11]

Wow, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here. Only on Neowin do the MS fan boys argue with you when you say an MS product is better. You guys are ridiculous.  :rolleyes: That's what I get for trying to have a civil discussion and add my opinion in the gaming section.

Oh just ignore them, people get silly on both sides of this. This forum is cursed with the same BS as just about every other forum on the internet. I tried finding a clean place, but that's impossible lol

 

Its nice to be able to discuss things without someone getting angry and storming out.

[firey]

SteamOS is based on Linux, isn't it? Where is your "Terminal" tab?

Android is based on linux too.. have to download special apps to get the terminal.

[BajiRav]

Terminals are only a necessity if you insist on mucking around with the OS, that's not going to be the case with a HTPC setup.

 

Just FYI, a BSOD is a kernel panic - so NT is the affected component.

 

Ooh ooh I know, Xbox One is full of viruses too because Windows is insecure!!! You buy Norton otherwise you'll get hack and they'll steal your megahertz!!!1111

 

:rolleyes:

Why do you think bringing up Terminal is somehow bad thing? :huh: I pointed out that you will need Terminal to change settings just like Xbox One has a "Settings" page. Given that Steam OS won't be running on specific hardware like PS/Xbox, users will need to "muck around the OS".

My experience with Linux is very limited (mostly RHEL5/6 these days) but I still find that using Terminal is probably easiest in setting Linux up.

p.s. This is going to be my last off topic post.

[trooper11]

Android is based on linux too.. have to download special apps to get the terminal.

 

Exactly, Linux is just the core that these companies are building off of. 

 

Again, think about the Xbox OS.  Yes, its based on Win NT and now Windows 8, but its not like you can jump into the desktop.  Its tailored for the market its in and pieces removed or hidden as needed.

[AJerman]

I think the reason that people try to debunk the idea that MS is somehow all in on media and Sony is not is because people will use it as a reason to not buy an X1. The only reason people think this is due to marketing. Sony succeeding in making it look like all they care about is gaming and MS focused too much on non gaming features. The reality is that both are pursuing media features and want their device to be the all in one device in your theater room. Sony is pursuing a cable tv-like service as we speak based on the leaks a while back. Sony is also trying to roll out their 4k streaming service to the console asap.

The point is, its just marketing fluff. These guys have the same goals, they just talk about it differently. They are both pushing gaming while at the same time trying to expand the base of users.

Now, for you in particular, I think everyone needs to lay off. Your not saying that you would not buy an X1 due to it having these media features. Your issues relate to it being less powerful on paper, the $100 price difference and the inclusion of Kinect, which you don't care for.

So you throw in all of those minuses and then find out you don't like the launch lineup or games announced, that seals it.

If I felt as you did about those things, I would choose the ps4 easily, as long as it had a launch lineup I wanted.

You mentioned building a gaming pc. Yeah, you could do that if you aren't very interested in the ps4 launch lineup, but then again, your going to be paying for a system that is not exactly focused on gaming being a pc. Whatever you do for your gaming needs, just make sure there is plenty of content to satisfy you. Maybe you buy nothing right now and just wait for prices to come down on the consoles and more games to come out.

 

I knew you would be attracted to that comment.

Yeah, its pretty silly to poke fun at Linux like that, as much as it is with Windows.

Besides, SteamOS will be presented in a way that the end user will not even realize its running Linux in the traditional sense. It'll be presented more like the Xbox OS.

But see, I never said that MS's gaming was going to take a hit because of the media features, but I feel it's blatantly obvious that MS has put more into it. Sony has been saying "Oh yeah, we've got that" and showing a half implementation of a lot of the media features that the Xbox has and trying to play catch up. That's a plus for the Xbox, not a negative at all. Anyone who says it's more of a media device and LESS of a gaming device, I definitely disagree with. I feel it'll be every bit as much of a gaming device, but it's also $100 more for a kinect and what I'd assume is more R&D in a more advanced underlying OS that I just simply don't need, but how many other people have computers plugged into all of their TVs to not even want those features? Maybe a few of us here since it's a tech board, but for 95% of the market, the X1 offers a lot of compelling features for their TV for only $100 more. From everything I've seen it's not marketing fluff at all. Plenty of people will buy the X1 BECAUSE it has the better media framework. Only a few, like myself, would opt out, and yes, that was only one of the few reasons I had for not getting an X1, like you said.

 

I do believe that the PS4 will hold a slight edge in as gaming device (DISCLAIMER: based on slightly better specs and what all but certainly is a lighter OS underneath, note slight, like barely noticeable, also note "I believe", as in this is what I expect but don't have full knowledge of yet because no one does), but I think the X1 will hold a much larger edge in being a better value device for most people. Maybe that explains what I'm trying to say a little better to the rest of the people jumping on me while, as far as I can tell, most of what I have said has been very positive about the X1.

 

 

Oh just ignore them, people get silly on both sides of this. This forum is cursed with the same BS as just about every other forum on the internet. I tried finding a clean place, but that's impossible lol

 

Its nice to be able to discuss things without someone getting angry and storming out.

Yeah, you're right. I just get annoyed with the people who like to argue just for the sake of arguing. I came in this thread saying more positive about the X1 than I ever have. I think the X1 will be great, but I think the PS4 will handily beat it in sales, even if it's just because of the price difference. MS hasn't taken enough advantage of very strong 360 sales and have flip flopped too much in the process of building the box. They could use better management in the department, but most people won't remember or even have ever known about all that come launch time, so it should be interesting.

[trooper11]

But see, I never said that MS's gaming was going to take a hit because of the media features, but I feel it's blatantly obvious that MS has put more into it. Sony has been saying "Oh yeah, we've got that" and showing a half implementation of a lot of the media features that the Xbox has and trying to play catch up. That's a plus for the Xbox, not a negative at all. Anyone who says it's more of a media device and LESS of a gaming device, I definitely disagree with. I feel it'll be every bit as much of a gaming device, but it's also $100 more for a kinect and what I'd assume is more R&D in a more advanced underlying OS that I just simply don't need, but how many other people have computers plugged into all of their TVs to not even want those features? Maybe a few of us here since it's a tech board, but for 95% of the market, the X1 offers a lot of compelling features for their TV for only $100 more. From everything I've seen it's not marketing fluff at all. Plenty of people will buy the X1 BECAUSE it has the better media framework. Only a few, like myself, would opt out, and yes, that was only one of the few reasons I had for not getting an X1, like you said.

 

I do believe that the PS4 will hold a slight edge in a pure gaming device, but I think the X1 will hold a much larger edge in being a better value device for most people. Maybe that explains what I'm trying to say a little better to the rest of the people jumping on me while as far as I can tell most of what I have said has been very positive about the X1.

 

 

I don't think you need to defend that position at all.  If the only difference between the ps4 and X1 was that MS had talked more about media features and spent more time demoing those features than Sony, I kind of doubt you would avoid the X1. 

 

I was just trying to share why some people get defensive about it.  Unlike you, some like to paint the X1 as a poor gaming console because of media content, as if you cant have both.  unfortunately, some people lash out without thinking.  That's the console wars for you, Sony and MS crazies that will jump onto anything without thinking.

 

At the end of the day, its not MS' attention to non-gaming media that would sway users away, its the $100, Kinect, and a dislike for the launch lineup.

[Athernar]

Why do you think bringing up Terminal is somehow bad thing? :huh: I pointed out that you will need Terminal to change settings just like Xbox One has a "Settings" page. Given that Steam OS won't be running on specific hardware like PS/Xbox, users will need to "muck around the OS".

My experience with Linux is very limited (mostly RHEL5/6 these days) but I still find that using Terminal is probably easiest in setting Linux up.

p.s. This is going to be my last off topic post.

 

Can you possibly understand why your limited experience with an enterprise Linux distro might not translate very well to a Gaming/HTPC oriented distro?

 

There is a reason Microsoft aren't shipping the Xbox One with Server 2012 R2 preinstalled.

[spudtrooper]

 

I'll be waiting for you to quote where I said anything even remotely close to that.

 

 

You throw out every talking point there is while subtly hinting that those talking points may not be as big of a deal but to you they are, to you, your mind is made up.. but you feel compelled to keep using those talking points as if they are factual arguments..

 

 

However none of them focused so much on these features, they were more of a side thing thrown in as an extra.

 

?

 

 

The X1 is aimed to be a full entertainment device to a point where in it's official unveiling they barely even talked about games

 

this one just makes me chuckle..

 

 

but if I add everything up with what I want and don't want, the extra media features, the Kinect, the extra $100, and a less powerful platform (though I highly doubt that will make a huge difference), the PS4 makes far more sense for me

 

And what are you adding up?

 

Are you saying PS4 wont' come with media features? Can you personally quantify a less powerful platform? Can you quantify how you know you don't want kinect gen 2 without ever having used it?