Windows 8.1- Desktop lovers rejoice (brief review)

[Athernar]

This thread is entertaining and saddening all at once, for a bunch of supposed nerds, geeks, and supposed IT experts and admins, I see entirely too much clinging to the old ways just because attitude here, had this same discussion with a few if the IT guys at work too, most go into win 8/8.1 with their minds already set that Metro and the Start Screen sucks and no matter what reality and real world experience says otherwise you will cling to your antiquated was, and that's fine, but admit that's all it is, it not any more efficient or not using the Start screen than a bloated Start menu, hell most of us rarely used the menu or Start screen, all the important apps should already be pinned to your task bar

 

TLDR, you like the old ways, good, keep your old inefficient ways, but realize eventually you will "get" the Start Screen and like it once you actually try it with an open mind

 

Oh look, it's the same old tired narrative that the start screen is superior and anyone who disagrees is merely "stuck in the past" or "resistant to change" with absolutely zero justification as to why the start screen is superior.

[Dot Matrix]

The start menu was hardly elegant. It suffered from being relic designed for a previous era. You can't hold onto that forever.

It's design left little room for expansion or new features without massive change. Microsoft wants to expand Windows' mobility, so the Start Menu had to go. Even on Desktops, the Start Screen has positive benefits over the menu. Greater scalability, greater visibility of the icons, and cloud syncing, for example. For ordinary users, this outweighs the poor and outdated features of the start menu, despite users familiarity with it.

[Stoffel]

Oh look, it's the same old tired narrative that the start screen is superior and anyone who disagrees is merely "stuck in the past" or "resistant to change" with absolutely zero justification as to why the start screen is superior.

 

You are only picking on one little part of what he wrote.

He is right though, it's amazing how hard IT people complain about this, while you would think that we all got into this business because we like new things, we love to experiment, but the way it looks, people here feel like it's better to have a status quo and not move on at all just so they don't have to change there ways, or have to learn something new.

 

That IS the wrong attitude if you want to be in IT, it's all about new things and constant learning

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

I don't think there has been any version of windows in history that has divided the windows community like this.

 

I love the start screen the most on a tablet, but the love stops there. I don't like the start screen as much as the start menu on laptops or desktops and I feel the start screen is a step down in windows ui evolution also. The start screen takes the entire screen, it takes longer to move your mouse to open a program, the search is not visible unless you start typing, your library folders are not there unless you pin them,  and the start screen makes working on the desktop less productive. The start menu is smaller, opening programs takes less time, you have all your library folders on the side unlike the start screen, the search is visible unlike the start screen, you can launch programs in the search and the start menu opens faster than the start screen .

 

Overall I think the start screen caters to touch displays more and the start menu is caters better for desktop users.

[Athernar]

You are only picking on one little part of what he wrote.

He is right though, it's amazing how hard IT people complain about this, while you would think that we all got into this business because we like new things, we love to experiment, but the way it looks, people here feel like it's better to have a status quo and not move on at all just so they don't have to change there ways, or have to learn something new.

 

That IS the wrong attitude if you want to be in IT, it's all about new things and constant learning

 

Did it ever occur to you that people might have valid reasons for disliking these changes? Did it ever occur to you these changes might not strictly be for the better in every aspect?

 

You moan about people saying you're an idiot for liking the Start Screen, and yet you have absolutely zero empathy for the other side of the coin.

 

You know what else is the wrong attitude? Accepting any change at face value, and never considering alternatives.

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

(Y) Amen! I cant tell you how many times proponents of the start screen told others they are dumb and/or resistant to change.

I will just say this to all supporters of the new Start screen......

 

NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE THEIR ENTIRE SCREEN USED UP BY A BUNCH OF ICONS. SOME PREFER SOMETHING A LOT MORE ELEGANT LIKE THE START MENU. IF YOU LIKE THE START SCREEN GOOD FOR YOU, BUT DON'T GO AROUND TELLING PEOPLE WHO DON'T THAT THEY ARE STUPID, RESISTANT TO CHANGE ETC.

[Dot Matrix]

Did it ever occur to you that people might have valid reasons for disliking these changes? Did it ever occur to you these changes might not strictly be for the better in every aspect?

You moan about people saying you're an idiot for liking the Start Screen, and yet you have absolutely zero empathy for the other side of the coin.

You know what else is the wrong attitude? Accepting any change at face value, and never considering alternatives.

The start screen is a long term investment. The positives outweigh whatever perceived negatives there are with this change. The start screen opens up Windows to new opportunities more easily than the start menu did (as evidenced by this current change already).

[Riggers]

Anarkii, just wondered why your clock shows 3:57 PM on the 4/11/2013 (also the 0 seems to be missing from infront of the 4), i wasn`t aware it was that time anywhere in the world yet ;)

Maybe that`s something to do with the 'Evaluation Copy' deal...

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I feel like the new sidebar search feature with combined search results is a pretty nice improvement over the annoying full-screen search in 8.0. And it lessens the need to even see either the Start Screen or the All Apps page. Although Windows could really use something like Quicksilver, in my opinion. 

[DConnell Member]

I will just say this to all supporters of the new Start screen......

 

NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE THEIR ENTIRE SCREEN USED UP BY A BUNCH OF ICONS. SOME PREFER SOMETHING A LOT MORE ELEGANT LIKE THE START MENU. IF YOU LIKE THE START SCREEN GOOD FOR YOU, BUT DON'T GO AROUND TELLING PEOPLE WHO DON'T THAT THEY ARE STUPID, RESISTANT TO CHANGE ETC.

 

I have to disagree that the Start Menu was elegant. I thought it was inefficient, cluttered, difficult to organize, and hard to find anything in. The Start Screen IMO is a lot closer to elegant - easy to organize as you see fit, easy to scan and find what you want, even if you don't organize. And if you use Metro apps, you get actual information on the Start Screen - weather updates, new email notifications, etc. The Start Menu was just a clunky, static list. I thought it was a downgrade from Program Manager back in 1995 (since you could easily organize the icons in PM), and while I got used to it, I never thought it was particularly efficient or elegant.

[Stoffel]

Did it ever occur to you that people might have valid reasons for disliking these changes? Did it ever occur to you these changes might not strictly be for the better in every aspect?

 

You moan about people saying you're an idiot for liking the Start Screen, and yet you have absolutely zero empathy for the other side of the coin.

 

You know what else is the wrong attitude? Accepting any change at face value, and never considering alternatives.

 

Yes, it did occur to me that people might have valid PERSONAL reasons for disliking some of the changes, doesn't mean that their opinion all of a sudden becomes general truth. There are plenty of the so called professionals who have absolutely no issue with the changes. So it all comes down to personal opinion. Way to many people here state their personal opinion as fact.

 

My 'moaning' was a reply to somebody yelling that he was tired of being called whatever, I just replied some of us were tired of being called shills or whatever.

 

My biggest complaint with the nay say'ers of Win 8 is that they can't come up with a better solution without having MS giving up on the tablet space.

It always comes down to reverting to Win7

[Syanide]

I only ever checked 8.1 on a friend's computer, I don't see this swaying anyone who disliked 8, but I guess it could be a decent upgrade for those not minding 8. Me, I disabled everything Metro, but I found it simply too unstable, so right now I pretty much have a spare Windows 8 license which I'll probably gift to someone.

[Stoffel]

I only ever checked 8.1 on a friend's computer, I don't see this swaying anyone who disliked 8, but I guess it could be a decent upgrade for those not minding 8. Me, I disabled everything Metro, but I found it simply too unstable, so right now I pretty much have a spare Windows 8 license which I'll probably gift to someone.

Hey I can always use another Win 8.0 license :)

[Athernar]

My biggest complaint with the nay say'ers of Win 8 is that they can't come up with a better solution without having MS giving up on the tablet space.

It always comes down to reverting to Win7

 

Absolute rubbish. Even with the basic approach of making the start menu an option (akin boot to desktop is in 8.1) does nothing to harm or impede MS's push into the tablet space.

 

There have been a myriad of suggestions and ideas put forward, but they were all quickly swept under the rug by sycophants.

 

No, some idiotic exec at Microsoft made the decision to obliterate the start menu because they thought it was a threat to the start screen and the attached store. And that choice has arguably done far more harm to the progress of Windows 8.x and by extension, the start screen ecosystem.

[Stoffel]

Absolute rubbish. Even with the basic approach of making the start menu an option (akin boot to desktop is in 8.1) does nothing to harm or impede MS's push into the tablet space.

 

There have been a myriad of suggestions and ideas put forward, but they were all quickly swept under the rug by sycophants.

 

No, some idiotic exec at Microsoft made the decision to obliterate the start menu because they thought it was a threat to the start screen and the attached store. And that choice has arguably done far more harm to the progress of Windows 8.x and by extension, the start screen ecosystem.

 

If you really want that start menu, why don't you get one of the available programs?

We've been using little tools and programs as long as I can remember on Windows to make it more to our liking.

 

So with the vision MS has, of one OS/UI on all platforms, how could they have done this better, all I hear comes down to completely different UI's,......

 

I'm not saying Win8.x is perfect lots of places for improvement, but the new way of working hasn't hindered me in the slightest.

[Athernar]

If you really want that start menu, why don't you get one of the available programs?

We've been using little tools and programs as long as I can remember on Windows to make it more to our liking.

 

So with the vision MS has, of one OS/UI on all platforms, how could they have done this better, all I hear comes down to completely different UI's,......

 

I'm not saying Win8.x is perfect lots of places for improvement, but the new way of working hasn't hindered me in the slightest.

 

Nothing in this post addresses my previous point, you've just ignored it and resorted to the usual parroting of MS PR.

[Stoffel]

Nothing in this post addresses my previous point, you've just ignored it and resorted to the usual parroting of MS PR.

 

There was no previous point.

 

And there we go again, we must be paid to say things like that right?

[Athernar]

There was no previous point.

 

And there we go again, we must be paid to say things like that right?

 

Yes, generally when you ignore the content of a post, move the goalposts and then respond with some asinine marketing speak, you do rather make yourself look like a shill.

 

Otherwise your response would of been one of "oh yeah I guess Microsoft could have done that", rather than "b-but muh one UI and futures of computerings".

 

It is your (and others) resistance to considering alternate courses of action that is the problem here.

[MorganX]

You guys realize you're not arguing about any version of Windows right now? Rather the right to argue, the rules of arguing, and the fervor of the arguments ... lol.

[Athernar]

You guys realize you're not arguing about any version of Windows right now? Rather the right to argue, the rules of arguing, and the fervor of the arguments ... lol.

 

This wouldn't happen if people actually argued the point, and didn't intentionally avoid or ignore topics when they hit conclusions where Microsoft simply could of handled things better. (You're one of the few that doesn't do this)

 

Because that's the ultimate conclusion at the end of all these various topics, Microsoft screwed up and proceeded with a course of action that was more harmful to them overall than if they had been accommodating and offered users a choice.

 

Windows 8 wouldn't of been hated, the marketshare would of been much higher, and it most likely would have also helped their efforts elsewhere too. Everyone is happy except the very few usual malcontents that really DO hate any change regardless of reason.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

with the vision MS has, of one OS/UI on all platforms, how could they have done this better, all I hear comes down to completely different UI's,...... 

Well, what's wrong with UIs that are purpose-built for the class of device one is using? Seems to me, the vision of a single UI regardless of the platform is exactly what is criticised by some.

[MorganX]

This wouldn't happen if people actually argued the point, and didn't intentionally avoid or ignore topics when they hit conclusions where Microsoft simply could of handled things better.

 

Because that's the ultimate conclusion at the end of all these various topics, Microsoft screwed up and proceeded with a course of action that was more harmful to them overall than if they had been accommodating and offered users a choice.

 

Windows 8 wouldn't of been hated, the marketshare would of been much higher, and it most likely would have also helped their efforts elsewhere too. Everyone is happy except the very few usual malcontents that really DO hate any change regardless of reason.

 

They definitely made some bad decisions but I'm not sure they had much choice. They were getting their clocked clean by iOS and Android tablets and phones. The Explorer UI simply will not work on tablets/touch, that's not what it was designed for and has failed miserably on tablets and phones. They have a long way to go but their is light at the end of the tunnel. They are selling tablets, and the phones are selling as well as can be expected given all that's still missing from both platforms.

 

The changes from 8 RTM to 8.1 are encouraging. Windows did not come out of the womb at v.7. Their biggest problem is small market share not encouraging a whole lot of development.

 

But I do agree 8 RTM was full of inexcusable mistakes, poor decisions, poor execution, and poor code. Some things were bad telemetry such as whatever data drove the horrendous search implementation. Yet it's turning out the telemetry on how most multitask and use or don't use the Start Menu may end up being correct, or more correct than wrong.

[Stoffel]

This wouldn't happen if people actually argued the point, and didn't intentionally avoid or ignore topics when they hit conclusions where Microsoft simply could of handled things better. (You're one of the few that doesn't do this)

 

Because that's the ultimate conclusion at the end of all these various topics, Microsoft screwed up and proceeded with a course of action that was more harmful to them overall than if they had been accommodating and offered users a choice.

 

Windows 8 wouldn't of been hated, the marketshare would of been much higher, and it most likely would have also helped their efforts elsewhere too. Everyone is happy except the very few usual malcontents that really DO hate any change regardless of reason.

Yet all of this is again simple opinion.

[Athernar]

They definitely made some bad decisions but I'm not sure they had much choice. They were getting their clocked clean by iOS and Android tablets and phones. The Explorer UI simply will not work on tablets/touch, that's not what it was designed for and has failed miserably on tablets and phones. They have a long way to go but their is light at the end of the tunnel. They are selling tablets, and the phones are selling as well as can be expected given all that's still missing from both platforms.

 

The changes from 8 RTM to 8.1 are encouraging. Windows did not come out of the womb at v.7. Their biggest problem is small market share not encouraging a whole lot of development.

 

But I do agree 8 RTM was full of inexcusable mistakes, poor decisions, poor execution, and poor code. Some things were bad telemetry such as whatever data drove the horrendous search implementation. Yet it's turning out the telemetry on how most multitask and use or don't use the Start Menu may end up being correct, or more correct than wrong.

 

I think you mistake my intent, I have no opposition to Microsoft pursuing those segments nor do I oppose the existence of Metro in general. What I do however oppose is the forced mixing of the two from both directions.

 

Microsoft could of taken a cleanly segregated approach that would of benefitted both platforms, but they didn't because most likely the usual idiot execs thought forcing Metro on the desktop would boost it's adoption in general. In the end it harmed both.

 

Heck, this isn't totally without precedent. Look at the slow adoption of DirectX 10, again arguably not helped by the original tying to NT6.x.

 

Yet all of this is again simple opinion.

 

No, it's simple fact. You just don't want to admit Microsoft did something wrong/poorly.

[Stoffel]

 

No, it's simple fact. You just don't want to admit Microsoft did something wrong/poorly.

 

I just think I live a simpler life, granted I don't rely on technology for my job anymore like I used to, but I upgrade, notice some differences, learn how it works and move on with my life. 

I might get annoyed about some things once and a while but I just don't go yelling that these changes are hostile, MS made the biggest mistake in their life, yadayadayada

 

If they change everything again when it comes to Win 9, i'll do the same thing again.