Microsoft to sell Xbox One without Kinect for

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Whats more annoying is that a certain percentage of the CPU / GPU will still be reserved for the Kinect that you don't have...

 

Not true, they've already gone into detail about reducing the overhead. They're now extending that and will work on improving the UI navigation without Kinect.

[Skin]

Great, it should only be just a console. The Kinect features were not essential to play games. The Kinect was killing the XB1, now it can thrive.

 

The Kinect 2.0 was a huge improvement over the original but it still isn't accurate enough for core games or any AAA game. That is all I and a whole lot of people are interested in. The motion gaming fad is long over, the casual consumers have moved on to smartphone and tablet games so there is no reason to force the core gamers to buy the Kinect. If you don't care about the TV features (or you subscribe to cable) then the Kinect just isn't that useful. 

 

I know a lot of people who are going to buy an XB1 now.

 

 I think you are being very short sighted.

 

The kinect is for more than game use, it is and was integrated into the entire system through easy voice commands, interaction with apps and games. It is a one stop shop no matter if you use TV features or not. I could go on, but after all this time, if you still don't understand what the kinect is actually for, then you either aren't listening, or are willfully not accepting.

 

On a more positive note, I am starting to understand the mindset of the people that dislike the console. Also, I am sorry that the unwashed masses have shied away from progress and change and want the same old junk shoveled at them in the form of their living room entertainment. MS took a huge step towards the future, and people were afraid - granted Don really messed them up in terms of message at first, but he was bailing anyways.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Talk about a melodramatic title. The future is what people want, and more than often that is a choice, as everyone's taste is different, especially when it comes to gaming.

 

If people want to blame anyone, blame Sony. They released a console 100 bucks cheaper, it's currently selling nearly 2:1 of the XB1 and even in the Xbox homeland, USA, I think 4 out of the 6 NPDs have gone to Sony. People can see their camera is getting support, maybe not that much, but that's the motion control market, it's not for everyone and never will be.

 

The shareholder meeting goes as follows, we need to cut the price guys, what do we do?

 

a) Take a considerable loss and cut with Kinect, hurting the companies profits and displeasing all of you shareholders.

b) Give the consumer the option, a lot of them have been asking for it anyway, and we don't lose profits.

 

But you say one person stands up in the meeting and says Sony stuck to their guns with the PS3 price and came out okay? Ah sure, "okay" by bleeding a ton of money, getting into a right hole of arrogance and PR hell, seeing the resignation of Ken Kutaragi and a complete and utter role reversal of everything carried out last generation this generation. You've got to remember Blu Ray kept that black slab "alive" at the start, it was the only means to a cheap HD player. The XB1 at $499 offers nothing unique like that, that would cause such an overspill from another market (home cinema market going after PS3 for Blu Ray).

 

They simply needed to cut the price, Sony have forced their hand and before things get way outta control they have to reign back in the sales gap and please the consumers that do not want Kinect. There's a reason this was coupled with XBL Gold restrictions being lifted as well, they're trying to mimic how Sony dug the PS3 out of the core of the earth after it's introduction to the market, but a hell of a lot quicker than it took Sony to do it. So moan all you want about early adopters remorse, getting things done now is far better than years down the line. If you're a true MS fan you'll realize that.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Talk about a melodramatic title. The future is what people want, and more than often that is a choice, as everyone's taste is different, especially when it comes to gaming.

 

If people want to blame anyone, blame Sony. They released a console 100 bucks cheaper, it's currently selling nearly 2:1 of the XB1 and even in the Xbox homeland, USA, I think 4 out of the 6 NPDs have gone to Sony. People can see their camera is getting support, maybe not that much, but that's the motion control market, it's not for everyone and never will be.

 

The shareholder meeting goes as follows, we need to cut the price guys, what do we do?

 

a) Take a considerable loss and cut with Kinect, hurting the companies profits and displeasing all of you shareholders.

b) Give the consumer the option, a lot of them have been asking for it anyway, and we don't lose profits.

 

But you say one person stands up in the meeting and says Sony stuck to their guns with the PS3 price and came out okay? Ah sure, "okay" by bleeding a ton of money, getting into a right hole of arrogance and PR hell, seeing the resignation of Ken Kutaragi and a complete and utter role reversal of everything carried out last generation this generation. You've got to remember Blu Ray kept that black slab "alive" at the start, it was the only means to a cheap HD player. The XB1 at $499 offers nothing unique like that, that would cause such an overspill from another market to buy (home cinema market going after PS3 for Blu Ray).

 

They simply needed to cut the price, Sony have forced their hand and before things get way outta control they have to reign back in the sales gap and please the consumers that do not want Kinect. There's a reason this was coupled with XBL Gold restrictions being lifted as well, they're trying to mimic how Sony dug the PS3 out of the core of the earth after it's introduction to the market, but a hell of a lot quicker than it took Sony to do it. So moan all you want about early adopters remorse, getting things done now is far better than years down the line. If you're a true MS fan you'll realize that.

 

And to add to your point A, bundling kinect for "free" to the consumer also isn't an option. That is a big reason as to why Sony are in financial difficulty now. Losing $300 per console for 4+ years was the worst decision as much as it kept them alive as far USP vs the 360/wii. Microsoft can't continue to lose money on Xbox forever and that is the way it would go if they bundled for free. You please the internet "whiners" but you haven't dug yourself out of 2nd place/lower sales position which is the real issue. Investors won't allow it, Ellop was rumoured saying he wants to sell/spin it off and now Nedella/Gates wouldn't object to it.

[neo1911]

Sony has almost won this round of console fight. The war will continue.

Hopefully Microsoft has learnt their lesson.

I now firmly believe that Microsoft has NO vision. The backtracking on Windows 8 and Xbox One proves it. Hopefully the new management recognises the public's pulse and turns the tables around.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

And to add to your points, bundling kinect for "free" to the consumer also isn't an option. That is a big reason as to why Sony are in financial difficulty now. Losing $300 per console for 4+ years was the worst decision as much as it kept them alive as far USP vs the 360/wii. Microsoft can't continue to lose money on Xbox forever and that is the way it would go if they bundled for free. You please the internet "whiners" but you haven't dug yourself out of 2nd place/lower sales position which is the real issue. Investors won't allow it, Ellop was rumoured saying he wants to sell/spin it off and now Nedella/Gates wouldn't object to it.

 

If the PS4 had cost $499 MS would have been fine, it doesn't cost that though. You can plan for years for a pricepoint and think you have enough to go on that your competition will be the same/similar, but the day they announce their console and it's $100 cheaper it can turn your whole last "5 years" of planning upside down. Especially considering MS like everyone else thought Sony would have 4GB of RAM and then they pulled that 8GB out of the bag in February. They hit it off, whatever price they needed for 8GB clearly happened last minute. Just as decisions can go your way last minute, others can go against you. The PS4 DRM announcements coupled with the pricing was a hard blow for MS to react to, no doubts.

 

I'm sure MS wanted to hold off for as long as possible and try their hardest to sell the XB1 as better value than the PS4, but that's not worked guys. It's been 7~8 months of being outsold by a decent margin, all the PR nightmare about the console being underpowered and to top it off the big and most important one, one hundred dollars more. Not 25, not 50, 100. That's a big difference whatever way you try to spin it. One that can't continue for "years" until the console is cheaper to make and Kinect can be bundled at $399. That day will come, but for now they need to push value at $399 without it.

[DeltaXray]

The whole entire selling point of the Xbox was firstly all of the features they canned before launch and secondly Kinect and everything that offered.  Now they canned all those features last year and now their last differentiator. So what is left? Xbox is now a hobbled shell of its former self that is just a less powerful PS4.

 

That said, are they right to offer a kinect-less option? Absolutely. Many people don't want it and aren't willing to pay for it.  It will shift systems.

 

What they need to do is spend some time and resources coming up with new ways they can differentiate themselves from the PS4. Fast. They are quickly being left in the dust because as it is there is very little reason for people to consider both consoles then opt for the Xbox, unless they drop the price dramatically.

[Max Norris]

I now firmly believe that Microsoft has NO vision. The backtracking on Windows 8 and Xbox One proves it. Hopefully the new management recognises the public's pulse and turns the tables around.

Not that I care about either console, but they did have a vision.. a lot of people just didn't care for it. And the backtracking is recognizing the public's pulse.. giving people what they want. A lot of people disliked the modern bits in 8, they're changing it up. A lot of people didn't want the Kinect, they're giving them what they want. Neither option is gone. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[Jarrichvdv]

This is all just BS. The Xbox vision for Kinect etc still stands; it's just optional now.

[MorganX]

Please explain to me how Kinect was the future? When the Wii maxed out motion control and by the time MS intro'd the Kinect and Sony the Move, motion control was already a passing fad on the inevitable downturn.

 

If you're talking about voice control, well all you need for that is a Mic.

 

On top of that, XBone is struggling with graphic performance considering this is supposed to be the next-gen. I'm not going to say that it can't keep up, but Watch Dogs, Project Cars, and maybe eventually the division will tell.

 

If the XBone is clearly a inferior experience with Watch Dogs and Project Cars, then the XBone is in trouble. MS made the decision to go with media, this vision born of the false believe the desktop PC was dead,  etc.

 

People still by consoles to "play games." And that's just not going to change any time soon. With cheap tablets, smartphones, streaming to TVs, Smart TVs, the need for a multimedia console is practically non-existent.

 

Maybe that vision was flawed and they're righting the ship before it's too late. Kind of like they're doing with Windows 8????

 

There's always going to be a minority that likes the gadget but without mass adoptions, it can't remain profitable. Flailing about in the living room will NEVER be more than a niche IMO.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

Same could be said about the Playstation 4. The PS3 was far more (and sold as) a box you put in your entertainment center, that played games, to now a game console there adding back multi-media features (after vocal feedback) by users. In Europe, the PS3  even had the TV/DVR add-on (Europe had common standards,  unlike the US where hardware and standards vary not making it viable here). 

 

To be more competitive, MS had to drop the price to match the PS4. There two options was to lose the kinect, or eat the cost. They choose to offer a kinect less version. 

 

Now that kinect is an optional accessory, dev's can opt out in full support of it. This is one reason Wii motion controls worked so well, it was the default controller. The gamepad was an optional add-on. 

 

Since I've never had interest in the kinect (not saying it's bad accessory) with a price drop w/ apps being free for non-gold now, I'm more interested X1 more then I was at launch. 

[Shiranui]

 

The Xbox was the future ?

 

With launch-day specs no better than a mid-range PC, it was never the future.....

[Charisma Veteran]

I know I'm just one person, but I'm glad about this. Better price for a console I want without all the frills. I've always preferred interacting via the controller--I'm not a big talker anyway, and the voice controls are buggy: having to repeat myself several times, or having it suddenly start doing things because of a voice in-game or on TV or someone else in the house having a conversation--no thanks. I really do not get the appeal of voice commands or motion-based games (beyond games for kids, which doesn't affect me). I know a lot of people seem to like it, but I'm not really sure why.

 

Just like seeing my friends with Windows Phones going ape-doody over the latest Cortana features has been fun. I have yet to see the phone get their request, in full, the first time. In the time it takes them to repeat their command a few times, they could have just swiped and tapped a few times and completed their task quietly, without frustration, and without looking silly. The Kinect, as far as I'm concerned, falls in the same category. Neat little novelty, I suppose, but not worth the extra charge tacked onto the console by default. Now the people who want it can have it, and those of us who just want to play a flippin' game can do so in peace--and buy an extra game or two with the money saved ;)

 

tl;dr: whether any of us individually like it or not, The People have spoken/voted with their wallet, and Microsoft has responded by giving consumers what they want, rather than running themselves into the ground on principle. If the new things they want to do end up being super-awesome, people will see it and want it and buy the necessary hardware to add on. I'm not interested in buying it pre-emptively, hoping... Let 'em impress me first, then I'll get on board.

[MorganX]

It seems everything i was originally excited about with the Xbox One is slowly being eroded away and i'm just going to be left with a lump of plastic that doesn;t play games as well as my office PC does.

 

The trick to pushing the envelope, is to have a vision and stick to that vision, ride out the blows and take the hit. MS's decision backtracks since day one have done nothing but remove any forward thinking ideas from the system. I understand there were people who didn't want the Kinect, to those people i say, buy a PS4. You wouldn't buy a Wii if you didn;t want to use the Wii-mote.

 

Basically, i couldn't agree more with the title of this news piece.

 

And when it turns out not enough gamers want Kinect enough to buy it, and opt to buy PS4 or ... nothing at all, and it become clear there aren't enough people who want, or games that utilize it, to create demand, and they can't foresee sustaining the platform in a profitable manner with the Kinect, what would you advise MS to do then?

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

If the PS4 had cost $499 MS would have been fine, it doesn't cost that though. You can plan for years for a pricepoint and think you have enough to go on that your competition will be the same/similar, but the day they announce their console and it's $100 cheaper it can turn your whole last "5 years" of planning upside down. Especially considering MS like everyone else thought Sony would have 4GB of RAM and then they pulled that 8GB out of the bag in February. They hit it off, whatever price they needed for 8GB clearly happened last minute. Just as decisions can go your way last minute, others can go against you. The PS4 DRM announcements coupled with the pricing was a hard blow for MS to react to, no doubts.

 

I'm sure MS wanted to hold off for as long as possible and try their hardest to sell the XB1 as better value than the PS4, but that's not worked guys. It's been 7~8 months of being outsold by a decent margin, all the PR nightmare about the console being underpowered and to top it off the big and most important one, one hundred dollars more. Not 25, not 50, 100. That's a big difference whatever way you try to spin it. One that can't continue for "years" until the console is cheaper to make and Kinect can be bundled at $399. That day will come, but for now they need to push value at $399 without it.

 

That is what still puzzles me about the reveals last year. For months the press kept asking Sony when they would announce the PS4 and they kept saying they weren't going to go first. Then bam, Feb comes around and we know almost everything about it. That must have been the light bulb moment for them when they knew they had the upper hand and why they changed their plans of waiting for MS to announce. We'll never really know, or it will be years before they say anything. It could have been a double bluff to make MS feel comfy with their time management.

 

Had the X1 been on par with PS4 and came to market with a kinect 1 launch lineup it would be better value, but that's not the case and they're trying to "pretend" it is. The performance gap between PS4/X1 will be varying throughout this generation, but there's no word of kinect titles on the horizon besides Fantasia / some ID@Xbox games. The N64 introduced analogue sticks and Mario 64 was the selling point. Starfox/donkey kong and the RAM/Rumble packs. Wii and Wii sports. Kinect and Dance Central. Kinect 2? Promises and OS integration. Nope. Not enough.

 

At the end of the day MS have done the right thing. They've taken the early blow by removing it which ensures the console remains in the competition. If they want Kinect 2 to sell in the fall, don't make the same mistake as Kinect 1 and sell it for a ridiculous price and make sure there is something to actually play. If all they do is box it and slap $150 on the price tag then they've not learnt a thing.

[MikeChipshop Member]

And when it turns out not enough gamers want Kinect enough to buy it, and opt to buy PS4 or ... nothing at all, and it become clear there aren't enough people want, or games that utilize it to create demand, and they can't foresee sustaining the platform in a profitable manner with the Kinect, what would you advise MS to do then?

 

Mute point. There's plenty of sales. Sometimes you need to take a small hit to move the vision forward.

[MorganX]

The whole entire selling point of the Xbox was firstly all of the features they canned before launch and secondly Kinect and everything that offered.  Now they canned all those features last year and now their last differentiator. So what is left? Xbox is now a hobbled shell of its former self that is just a less powerful PS4.

 

That said, are they right to offer a kinect-less option? Absolutely. Many people don't want it and aren't willing to pay for it.  It will shift systems.

 

What they need to do is spend some time and resources coming up with new ways they can differentiate themselves from the PS4. Fast. They are quickly being left in the dust because as it is there is very little reason for people to consider both consoles then opt for the Xbox, unless they drop the price dramatically.

 

That would be the heart of the problem then. The selling point of any "game" console, has to be the games IMO.

[MikeChipshop Member]

and make sure there is something to actually play.

 

This is the defining thing about this all. They need to get something oput there that makes you go "Wow!".

[MorganX]

Mute point. There's plenty of sales. Sometimes you need to take a small hit to move the vision forward.

 

Define plenty? Does plenty mean enough to not warrant the unbundling of Kinect? How small of a hit is acceptable? How many hits do you take before you conclude this vision, isn't moving forward, and projections indicate, it's not going to ever move significantly forward. All the while the platform is losing traction due to performance? True next-gen games are coming up (Watch Dogs, Project Cars, the Division). What happens if Xbox can't do 1080p, 60fps or anything close. Will Kinect save it?

 

PCs are cheaper than ever and perform better with games. Sure, it's not in the living room, but with 30-something gamers and an Internet connection, many hardcore opt for the PC, multiple displays, and Steam community. All of these things must be considered when projecting the future of Kinect and the platform as a whole.

 

Kinect is a non-factor right now. XB1 has to prove itself a next-gen gaming console or the whole platform will be in trouble. Tell, me, what Kinect game would make you go "Wow." Must have Kinect?

 

There's a reason controllers and Keyboard/Mouse have not been supplanted by any input gadgets. People are more religious about their game controller, and just about any other aspect short of Resolution and Framerate. There's a reason for that. Kinect is a cool gadget. Would have been cooler if it was built-in the primary console. More wires and more space is never good. It's just not the next big thing. The Move isn't either.

 

Look at Project Cars. You think gamers that will shell out $60 for that and are really into it, measure framerate, and obsess about the driving physics would rather use a controller, a physical wheel, or an imaginary air wheel with Kinect?

[Ironman273]

I, for one, was looking for the original Xbox that was touted.  I wanted a center to my family room where I could not only play games but have a total media center experience with it.  That being said, and I've said this many times before, I understand that was not for everyone and that's OK.  I would be the first to say that if someone wanted a straight up console the PS4 was the way to go.  It is an awesome console.  

 

I never felt that the graphics on the One were bad because I don't have 2 TVs next to each other playing the exact game on the PS4 and Xbox One so I can pick apart every little detail.  Everything on the Xbox One still looked really good to me.  I liked all the little things that Kinect brought to the table, as useless as other may have found it.

 

At the end of the day it's my personal experience that will suffer and I am saddened by it.  What I don't understand is everyone that is obviously on the Sony side that is happy about this.  If the PS4 fit all your needs and the Xbox One was different than it.... so?  Enjoy your console!  And let others enjoy theirs.  I think Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot.  Now they have a console at the same price point that will be easy to point out is "inferior" specs wise.  They removed all the items in the "Pro" category that would make up for those arguments in the "Con" side.

[Lord Method Man]

I, for one, was looking for the original Xbox that was touted.  I wanted a center to my family room where I could not only play games but have a total media center experience with it. 

 

......

 

At the end of the day it's my personal experience that will suffer and I am saddened by it.

 

What the hell has changed? Is MS remote-disabling your Kinect or something?

[Ironman273]

What the hell has changed? Is MS remote-disabling your Kinect or something?

No, but when a developer has a choice to make about whether the system he is writing for may or may not have an accessory he will not write for it to cater to the biggest audience.  So everything up to now is good but in the future the developers will steer towards the safe side.

[spenser.d]

 

Just like seeing my friends with Windows Phones going ape-doody over the latest Cortana features has been fun. I have yet to see the phone get their request, in full, the first time. In the time it takes them to repeat their command a few times, they could have just swiped and tapped a few times and completed their task quietly, without frustration, and without looking silly. The Kinect, as far as I'm concerned, falls in the same category. Neat little novelty, I suppose, but not worth the extra charge tacked onto the console by default. Now the people who want it can have it, and those of us who just want to play a flippin' game can do so in peace--and buy an extra game or two with the money saved ;)

 

This is OT, but mine is pretty spot on with my requests :P

[ATLien_0]

I think what Microsoft needs to learn, is while some (me included) wanted some of the new future items on the xbox, not all consumers appreciate drastic changes. They need to do things incremental. They also didn't pitch it well at E3 last year. The XBOX One in its original form was definitely the future of gaming the problem was that the majority didn't want that drastic change

 

Also I think Microsoft is going to have a problem down the road now. If they keep backpedaling on things consumers are going to catch on. They need to start by getting things right the first time around

[Lord Method Man]

No, but when a developer has a choice to make about whether the system he is writing for may or may not have an accessory he will not write for it to cater to the biggest audience.  So everything up to now is good but in the future the developers will steer towards the safe side.

 

This is a tired Kinect anecdote that has never manifested itself. Where where the Kinect games beforehand? Where are the great Kinect games in development?

 

Developers still weren't using it, and if they were it was just to crowbar in some voice commands. Titanfall was the coming-of-Christ Xbox exclusive game to end all games and it didn't even utilize it. Developers don't seem to care that everyone had a Kinect, because they knew people didn't want motion controls mandated anyway. Its a philosophy that cripped the original Wii. Sure it sold well, but pretty much every third party release for it was crap.