Waaay Late, Mac Specs Suck Now

[Sandor]

else they are all wrong.

They are.

 

And it's not difficult to put OSX on something other than an apple computer.

[tsupersonic]

Most of Best Buy's laptops are not high end.  The majority are low end.

Doesn't matter what store you are looking at - Bestbuy has an easy filter where you can determine how many laptops have iGPU vs. dedicated GPU's. My point still stands - the majority of laptops sold today have iGPU's. 

 

I don't know which kind of laptops BestBuy usually keeps in stock but from what I've seen in stores/online websites the laptop models that aren't low-end, except for truly high-end models or ultrabooks/tablets that are a different market, come with garbageish dedicated GPUs like the 710M-740M/AMD counterparts. Now a lot of them are also coming with garbageish low-power CPUs (U series). Of course if we're talking about sales (rather than model availability) most of the laptops sold are the ones with IGPs just like it has been for a long while. That said unless I had 2000-3000? to spend on a laptop I'd take an Iris Pro over any mid-range GPU nvidia/AMD have to offer. What is really bad about Intel IGPs is that you are forced to buy them even when you don't use them (since they're integrated in the CPU) therefore Intel has zero incentive to improve the IGPs in low-end models when Nvidia/AMD are basically just "cashing in on the dedicated GPU stickers".

Bingo, that is my point. ;) 

[adrynalyne]

Doesn't matter what store you are looking at - Bestbuy has an easy filter where you can determine how many laptops have iGPU vs. dedicated GPU's. My point still stands - the majority of laptops sold today have iGPU's. 

 

Bingo, that is my point. ;)

I guarantee you there are more laptops sold with DGP than with Apple. :p

[tsupersonic]

I guarantee you there are more laptops sold with DGP than with Apple. :p

That wasn't my point :) That'd be interesting to see though.

[adrynalyne]

That wasn't my point :) That'd be interesting to see though.

Not particularly hard to see.  You just need at least 2 models with DGP and they have more than apple :p

[Dashel]

Value is not inherent, a person has to grant an idea of value in order to be detonated by a source. You are, basically, arguing that everyone should hold your own ruleset of values, else they are all wrong.

 

Please, call us when you find a cheaper laptop not made by Apple that runs OS X natively and with support... because, you know, some people like OS X.

 

They why pretend you don't pay a premium to do so?  That is such a clich?d response, like claiming you can't compare if it 'doesn't have retina' or some other niche feature, which miraculously always makes it incomparable with other standardized devices.

 

Its a luxury purchase, don't confuse that with 'value' regarding the overall bang for the buck, there isn't much.  A sub $500 Yoga2 can claim that and still do things the Mac can't dream of.

[Hurmoth]

They why pretend you don't pay a premium to do so? That is such a clich?d response, like claiming you can't compare if it 'doesn't have retina' or some other niche feature, which miraculously always makes it incomparable with other standardized devices.

Its a luxury purchase, don't confuse that with 'value' regarding the overall bang for the buck, there isn't much. A sub $500 Yoga2 can claim that and still do things the Mac can't dream of.

Paying a premium is still dependent on the value the purchaser. If I have the money and that is what I want to buy, it isn't a premium.

It is only a premium if it isn't what you can actually afford to spend, but have to buy it anyway.

[sanctified Veteran]

They why pretend you don't pay a premium to do so?  That is such a clich?d response, like claiming you can't compare if it 'doesn't have retina' or some other niche feature, which miraculously always makes it incomparable with other standardized devices.

 

Its a luxury purchase, don't confuse that with 'value' regarding the overall bang for the buck, there isn't much.  A sub $500 Yoga2 can claim that and still do things the Mac can't dream of.

 

You hear that? Is the sound of the air as my post went over your head...

 

First, dont think 'value', as a word, only has a monetary interpretation.

 

Second, every object that does not cover a basic human function is a luxury so your Yoga2 is as much as a luxury as the Macbook Air I'm typing this on.

 

The difference is that we choose how to spend the money. I chose OS X and the Yoga2, no matter how you appreciate it, cant run it in a supported and native way. It's our prerogative to chose how to use a tool and why. The value I'm conferring to my machine is both an experience value (The OS) and an Aesthetic value (I enjoys Apple design).

 

I've never understand why people care to debate how others spend their money and for what reasons. So yeah, debate me and tell me how to spend the money I earn. I'd love to see how childish people can get so far as to tell others, with a straight face: 'be like me'.

[sanctified Veteran]

They are.

 

And it's not difficult to put OSX on something other than an apple computer.

 

I think that you chose to ignore the "that runs OS X natively and with support".

 

snip.

Edited July 26, 2014 by zhangm

[xWhiplash]

They why pretend you don't pay a premium to do so?  That is such a clich?d response, like claiming you can't compare if it 'doesn't have retina' or some other niche feature, which miraculously always makes it incomparable with other standardized devices.

 

Its a luxury purchase, don't confuse that with 'value' regarding the overall bang for the buck, there isn't much.  A sub $500 Yoga2 can claim that and still do things the Mac can't dream of.

 

Well explain to me why every comparison I have seen from people include 5400RPM 1TB hard drives instead of SSDs?  That makes a HUGE difference in performance and price.

 

A sub $500 Yoga2 can claim that and still do things the Mac can't dream of.

 

Please show me.  It has an i7?  16GB of ram?  512GB SSD?  It can do a very very good job at video rendering?  

 

Please, look at this page:

 

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-id=38E12654A11621915A324C20F4D03AAA&action=init

 

Which $500 Yoga2 can smoke the retina Macbook Pro?  It has an Intel Celeron, geez.

 

This is why these stupid comparisons need to stop.  You guys are not very good at it.  Again, you can say a $500 dell is MUCH BETTER than a $2,000 retina Macbook pro, but that is a lie.  When the fact is that it includes a 5400 RPM hard drive instead of a SSD, you guys fail at comparing the two products.  Do not need a SSD?  FINE.  But that does not make the Macbook Pro overpriced.

 

If that $500 Dell Laptop has everything you need, then fine get that laptop.  But it is in no way comparable to the rMBP or any of the Mac laptops.

 

An SSD costs more money, so the final product costs more.  You cannot compare a product with a VEEERRRRYYYY  crappy drive (5400 RPM in no way can be comparable to a SSD, let alone a PCIe one)

Higher resolution screens DO.....DO cost more money, and the final product will result in a higher price.  

 

So by everyone's logic here, why should I ever buy a Samsung, Dell, Apple, LG, ... monitor when I can get this one for much cheaper?

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA5JJ1T13756

 

The other 27" monitors are just WAYYYYYY overpriced right?

[adrynalyne]

They why pretend you don't pay a premium to do so?  That is such a clich?d response, like claiming you can't compare if it 'doesn't have retina' or some other niche feature, which miraculously always makes it incomparable with other standardized devices.

 

Its a luxury purchase, don't confuse that with 'value' regarding the overall bang for the buck, there isn't much.  A sub $500 Yoga2 can claim that and still do things the Mac can't dream of.

Uh, no?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lenovo-Yoga-Convertible-Ultrabook-Tablet/dp/B00IQXSW6C/ref=sr_1_2/185-3504432-8241033?ie=UTF8&qid=1406326711&sr=8-2&keywords=yoga2+pro

 

A pro can though.  A bit more $ though and it has less ram.

[Circaflex]

Although it's possible to buy a similar spec'd machine for less, I've yet to see any laptop on the market for less which actually has all of the features of the rMBP - when you take into account the smaller things, such as:

- Backlit keyboard

- PCIe SSD (not SATA)

- Graphics switching between on-board and dedicated graphics cards to save power

- Retina display of the same resolution

- USB 3 and thunderbolt

- 8-9 hour battery (rated to hold 80% charge after 1000 cycles)

- Wireless AC and bluetooth 4.0

- Dual microphones (which results in MUCH clearer sound)

- Speaker system with built-in subwoofer

Ultimately, it's down to personal preference. For me, a MacBook is a no-brainer decision. I'm far more productive using OS X than I am using Windows, and all of the software I use runs on OS X. I also find that the integration between Apple products is far better than any other manufacturer.

Also - there is Apple's support. Take that ASUS. If it breaks, you're going to be sending it off to ASUS for god knows how long. With a MBP, you can walk into an Apple store and have somebody look at it in person and repair it. Also, need help getting your printer working, or having trouble installing something, Apple stores will always help.

One other thing - the sheer level of engineering. If you ever get a chance to crack open a MacBook Pro Retina, the insides are a thing of beauty. As someone with a passion for technology, I can't help but admire the quality of the engineering (both physical and electrical) that goes into these things.

Edit - here's what I mean about the hardware engineering. I don't have a photo of the one from the exact model of asus above (i think it's from the previous version), but I believe it's pretty much the same, bar connectors, from what I've been reading.

MBPr Motherboard: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/UKXOdnyfCEmQIQwG.huge

Asus Motherboard: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/xquZ2XjXDewffHvr.huge

"- Graphics switching between on-board and dedicated graphics cards to save power" 99% of laptops that have a dedicated gpu have this ability, especially all with core processors with built-in graphics.

 

Support? I disagree with you on that aspect.

I have a friend who worked at an Apple store and told me this

I worked at Apple for three years, the last being a Genius. Just to add more to your frustration and credibility and anger, in fact, anything that is over five years old, software or hardware, we don't even touch to support. If a customer came in with a five year old computer that wasn't working or software, we literally would not even start their appointment because we would just immediately just shoo them out because their machine was "vintage" and give them a paper with other apple certified repair shops that weren't us, and would be happy because it was one less appt we didn't have to take and could catch up on our queue. The general attitude whenever someone would come in frustrated because a new software didn't support their programs or their new machine couldn't run a new software wasn't anything but "Yeah, well that's what you get for having a five year old machine." As if it were insane that someone was "so poor" they couldn't buy new machines every five years, or every year, like the majority of the knobs that bought Apple computers for Facebook and iTunes.

A new OS X version gets released annually, with a maximum of around 4 years of support per version. Apple slowly rolls new features and software bloat with each new OS X version which cripples most of their older/slower hardware.

Most experienced Mac purchasers know to buy the most powerful hardware in the area they require, because Mac's are not upgradable and the annual OS X upgrade bloat slows them down.

OS X 10.6 is currently UNSUPPORTED by Apple and is only 4 years old, makes up 20% of OS X users (per Net Applications), to me when you spend $2000+ you should have support last longer than a measily 4 years.

 

 

Because I know the trolls will come out, I have owned a macbook pro, i7 top of the line model, so no I am not baiting.

[ViperAFK]

"- Graphics switching between on-board and dedicated graphics cards to save power" 99% of laptops that have a dedicated gpu have this ability, especially all with core processors with built-in graphics.

 

Support? I disagree with you on that aspect.

I have a friend who worked at an Apple store and told me this

A new OS X version gets released annually, with a maximum of around 4 years of support per version. Apple slowly rolls new features and software bloat with each new OS X version which cripples most of their older/slower hardware.

Most experienced Mac purchasers know to buy the most powerful hardware in the area they require, because Mac's are not upgradable and the annual OS X upgrade bloat slows them down.

OS X 10.6 is currently UNSUPPORTED by Apple and is only 4 years old, makes up 20% of OS X users (per Net Applications), to me when you spend $2000+ you should have support last longer than a measily 4 years.

 

 

Because I know the trolls will come out, I have owned a macbook pro, i7 top of the line model, so no I am not baiting.

The mavericks upgrade was a significant performance increase for me.

[Brian M. Veteran]

"- Graphics switching between on-board and dedicated graphics cards to save power" 99% of laptops that have a dedicated gpu have this ability, especially all with core processors with built-in graphics.

 

Support? I disagree with you on that aspect.

I have a friend who worked at an Apple store and told me this

A new OS X version gets released annually, with a maximum of around 4 years of support per version. Apple slowly rolls new features and software bloat with each new OS X version which cripples most of their older/slower hardware.

Most experienced Mac purchasers know to buy the most powerful hardware in the area they require, because Mac's are not upgradable and the annual OS X upgrade bloat slows them down.

OS X 10.6 is currently UNSUPPORTED by Apple and is only 4 years old, makes up 20% of OS X users (per Net Applications), to me when you spend $2000+ you should have support last longer than a measily 4 years.

 

 

Because I know the trolls will come out, I have owned a macbook pro, i7 top of the line model, so no I am not baiting.

But as an entire package, I would wager that you cannot find a machine with all of those features, cheaper than the $2699 15" rMBP.

[chrisj1968]

The only sole criteria that determines worthiness of a Laptop is the graphics chip in it. Especially when it is pushing so called Retina/UHD display. 

 

Unfortunately the laptop graphics are falling behind in terms of speed curve due to limitations of heat dissipation, space inside chassis or being purposely held back by Nvidia and AMD.

 

So I simply don't use laptops anymore. I use an extremely powerful megawatt guzzling Windows based desktop and a power efficient tablet (Air). Laptops are redundant.

 

/Strong Opinion.

unless you buy toshiba Qosmio line with are power users made.

[xWhiplash]

"- Graphics switching between on-board and dedicated graphics cards to save power" 99% of laptops that have a dedicated gpu have this ability, especially all with core processors with built-in graphics.

 

Support? I disagree with you on that aspect.

I have a friend who worked at an Apple store and told me this

A new OS X version gets released annually, with a maximum of around 4 years of support per version. Apple slowly rolls new features and software bloat with each new OS X version which cripples most of their older/slower hardware.

Most experienced Mac purchasers know to buy the most powerful hardware in the area they require, because Mac's are not upgradable and the annual OS X upgrade bloat slows them down.

OS X 10.6 is currently UNSUPPORTED by Apple and is only 4 years old, makes up 20% of OS X users (per Net Applications), to me when you spend $2000+ you should have support last longer than a measily 4 years.

 

 

Because I know the trolls will come out, I have owned a macbook pro, i7 top of the line model, so no I am not baiting.

 

 Mavericks can be installed on 2007 hardware.....and free.  Why would Apple support 10.6?

 

They only time Apple messed up a release was Snow Leopard.  It was Apple's Vista.  Performance was not very good.

 

Nobody has provided a valid product comparison that is half the price of the Mac with the SAME features.  No 5400 RPM drive since rMBP have SSDs.  No 1080p displays.  This is where the product comparisons fail.  

 

So for the last time, get what you need.  Somebody that browses Facebook does not need more than an i3 processor.  Does that make i5 and i7 processors overpriced?

[Gone]

What have I created!!!??!  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

[Circaflex]

But as an entire package, I would wager that you cannot find a machine with all of those features, cheaper than the $2699 15" rMBP.

But some of your requirements dont even make sense, a pciessd over sata ssd in a macbook isnt going to offer much more performance, we arent even maxing out the sata3 yet.

 

but the xps pro 15 and razer blade come very close to having all of your required specs, the xps 15 pro trumping the rmbp in many

[Prosidius]

Can I just say how amazing track pads are on mac laptops?  PC manufacturers need to figure out where Apple is getting it's track pads from.

[adrynalyne]

Can I just say how amazing track pads are on mac laptops?  PC manufacturers need to figure out where Apple is getting it's track pads from.

Its less about the trackpad and more about the software and drivers.

 

I don't think anyone can argue that Apple has some incredibly talented developers.

[Sandor]

I think that you chose to ignore the "that runs OS X natively and with support".

 

And about your "they are"... cute. No, seriously, that childish innocence, that adolescent impulse of pretending you're the standard of how humanity should be modeled after, I find that incredibly touching and tender.

 

Yeah budy, we should be like you. Who's the best? You're the best!

 

/ruffles your hair

Now you're getting it.

[offroadaaron]

But some of your requirements dont even make sense, a pciessd over sata ssd in a macbook isnt going to offer much more performance, we arent even maxing out the sata3 yet.

 

but the xps pro 15 and razer blade come very close to having all of your required specs, the xps 15 pro trumping the rmbp in many

What?

 

SATA3 = 550MB/s

PCI-Express = 780MB/s

[adrynalyne]

What?

 

SATA3 = 550MB/s

PCI-Express = 780MB/s

It offers greater performance, but you really aren't going to notice it.  At least, not in a laptop.

[Circaflex]

What?

 

SATA3 = 550MB/s

PCI-Express = 780MB/s

please show me where this even matters, especially in a laptop. you have other bottlenecks that you'll notice before an SSD on a sata port compared to a pcie card.

[offroadaaron]

please show me where this even matters, especially in a laptop. you have other bottlenecks that you'll notice before an SSD on a sata port compared to a pcie card.

 

swap memory, copying files to thunderbolt drives, when copying across 10Gb Ethernet.... I think that's completely valid enough.

 

It offers greater performance, but you really aren't going to notice it.  At least, not in a laptop.

 

Yes, yes you are.

 

You do realise that video editors need as much speed as possible, right? Just because this isn't you doesn't mean it's not true.