Xbox One features coming with the Windows 10 upgrade


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So I'm surprised this did not even make the front page of this site yet, but here is a run down of the major features coming to the X1 and Windows 10:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/windows-10

There is no video of the live feed yet that showed off more detail about these features, but I'll add it when there is.

So to list a summary of what is coming:

1. Streaming Xbox One games: So this sounds like a similar setup to the PS4's remote play and it will work on any Windows 10 pc or tablet

2. Cross platform multiplayer: From the live feed, it sounded like this was an OS level feature that allows any cross platform game to offer this. We will need to hear more about the details, but this is a big change if MS is going to allow any cross platform developer to hook into XBL from the pc.

3. XBox features on the PC: This one is not X1 related per se, but it was very cool to see features like GameDVR built into Windows. On the live stream they loaded up Civilization via Steam and while in game, they were able to call up the GameDVR to make a clip which could then be modified and uploaded just like the X1. It also natively syncs with the X1 activity feed.

Then there is the HoloLens:

http://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-hololens/

So there is so much we dont know about this AR device. They clearly say that it was built with gaming in mind during the stream along with its other uses, but its not even clear if this is for pc only or X1 as well. There is no pricing or firm launch date other than when Win 10 launches. This is definitely a dark horse. We will have to wait for more details and impressions. If it is coming to the X1, then we will need to see content.

cross platform play isn't new, but something they're trying to revive again. we had it on the 360, not sure if any other games than shadowrun used it.

It isn't new, but I thought that it was very limited in scope on the 360, plus it was not marketed as something any game could tap into. What I'm waiting to hear is if MS is allowing any developer to tap into this without extra effort. That would make it different from their attempts in the past.

With the rise of MMO-like experiences, this is a feature that could be tapped into alot more.

It isn't new, but I thought that it was very limited in scope on the 360, plus it was not marketed as something any game could tap into. What I'm waiting to hear is if MS is allowing any developer to tap into this without extra effort. That would make it different from their attempts in the past.

With the rise of MMO-like experiences, this is a feature that could be tapped into alot more.

 

It was marketed pretty heavily.  It was part of Games for Windows Live and was one of the big selling points of it at the time.  They also had Xbox achievements integration on the PC, voice chats across platforms, send/recieve messages across platforms, cross platform friends lists, etc..  I've never owned an Xbox but I have a "Gamertag" for an Xbox Live account and achievements because of Games for Windows Live.  Games for Windows Live failed horribly and I'm not sure what's different about Xbox Live that would avoid a similar fate.  On the surface at least they look nearly identical (I don't mean the UI, but the capabilities).

 

I'm not sure why Games for Windows Live failed.  I think it's because Steam had already taken root and developers didn't want to tie their games to BOTH Steam APIs and GFWL APIs.  On the PC developers chose Steam over it.  If that is the reason again I don't see what makes that any different now.  If anything Steam is MORE entrenched now so to PC gamers having Steam achievements and steam messages, and such is more important the Xbox Live compatibility.  It should be interesting to see how it turns out though.

Gfwl was just a messy middleware app, like steam is, but it had issues. The Windows 10 stuff, as far s live goes is native to the OS now, not a app in the middle talking to the game and service. So is the GameDVR feature, native, which is why it works with any game on the PC.

 

And since the Live APIs are the same, as is DX12, developers have little to change when building their game, once it works on the Xbox One then it should work on Windows 10.

 

It'll also help if this time MS supports it more directly with it's first party titles and lets desktop games be sold and managed directly through the new Windows Store.

Gfwl was just a messy middleware app, like steam is, but it had issues. The Windows 10 stuff, as far s live goes is native to the OS now, not a app in the middle talking to the game and service. So is the GameDVR feature, native, which is why it works with any game on the PC.

 

And since the Live APIs are the same, as is DX12, developers have little to change when building their game, once it works on the Xbox One then it should work on Windows 10.

 

It'll also help if this time MS supports it more directly with it's first party titles and lets desktop games be sold and managed directly through the new Windows Store.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "messy middleware app".  It's a set of APIs a developer can use to provide friends lists, voice chat, achievements, etc.  It's middleware in that Gfwl didn't come with the OS sure but it was from the OS developer and it's still just a set of APIs to use or not.  Xbox Live IS still an app in the middle talking to the game and a service, it's just that app now ships with the OS instead of being installed later.  Maybe Gfwl was poorly written and Xbox Live isn't but their both just APIs a developer can choose to use or not.

 

The problem is if a developer chooses to use the Xbox Live API for voice chat so they can chat with Xbox Live users... then they aren't going to be able to voice chat with Steam users.  They'll divide their community between some people using one and some using another and so they're going to pick one.  Same with achievements, matchmaking, etc.  I could be wrong and I'm interested to see how it turns out but I don't see them picking MS APIs over Steam.  Especially since most will likely still be using Steam as their primary distribution platform.

 

The only ones that clearly benefit from this are former Xbox exclusives that want to move to PC but the bar was previously too high.  Now that bar is lower but if they were formerly Xbox exclusives I bet there is going to be some pressure for them to stay that way.  Fable Legends is a good example of this and I really hope it pans out and most Xbox exclusives become Xbox/Win10 exclusive instead.  As a PC gamer who doesn't own an Xbox I think that would be great because there would be absolutely no reason to ever buy an Xbox if pretty much everything comes out on PC as well.  I'm pretty sure a large faction of the Xbox community would be VERY upset if there were no more (or very few) Xbox exclusives though.

He means the downloader was terrible and that you had to launch a game just to patch it was retarded.  Game won't launch?  TOO BAD!

 

I didn't hate GfWL, but it was definitely messy.

 

From what I can tell Xbox Live for Win10 doesn't do downloading or patching at all.  So in a sense it's actually LESS than GfWL was (even if GfWL did it poorly)

 

Either way there must be some UI or whatever to view your achievements, friends list, etc.  That UI is just an app that happens to be bundled with the OS.

 

If a game developer releases a game that uses the Win10/Xbox friends list a lot of people aren't going to have any friends on that.  Heck some people who buy that game won't even have Win10 so it won't work even if they do have an Xbox too.  Also where are they getting the game from?  If they're downloading it from Steam they presumably DO have friends and achievements and such on Steam so now they've got this game they just downloaded from Steam that has a friends list from Xbox (which they may or may not own) and not Steam and doesn't even work for anyone who for whatever reason hasn't upgraded to Win10.  I just don't see developers making that choice.  I think they'll stick with Steam but again it should be interesting to watch.  If MS wants to compete with Steam they need to offer to sell the games and do the patches and such too and then convince game developers to use the MS Store over Steam but that doesn't appear to be what they're doing here.

 

Now the Game DVR is something that will work with anything because it doesn't depend on a community.  THAT I can see being big because it doesn't matter what the people you play with are using, it's just recording stuff on your screen.  Your friends have to be using the same friends list as you though, they have to be using the same chat servers, they have to be using the same match making service, etc. for it to work together and Steam already has a dominant position in those areas.  I just don't seem game developers choosing to split their community by supporting both or choosing the Xbox solution over the established tools Steam provides... especially if they're still selling the game on Steam.

From what I can tell Xbox Live for Win10 doesn't do downloading or patching at all.  So in a sense it's actually LESS than GfWL was (even if GfWL did it poorly)

Yah, they call that part the Windows Store now.  So, not really, it just isn't all integrated into one set.

Yah, they call that part the Windows Store now.  So, not really, it just isn't all integrated into one set.

Well it will be interesting to see if there is a mass exodus for PC games from Steam to Windows Store as their primary digital distribution method.

Whoever wins that will likely win the "middleware" battle for features that depend on community (voice chat, friends lists, etc.)

Maybe MS will pull it off but if I had to bet my money would be on Steam (like them or not).

It's middleware just like steam is, to do anything in steam you need the client, just like uplay, just like what EA has. If the clients aren't installed you can't access the backend, and you need it. GfWL was no different, it acted just like the others, had to be part of the install.

 

That's not the case anymore, the needed APIs are part of the OS, natively.  While there is a Xbox app, it's not needed for games to use the Live APIs, the app really just helps with the social parts outside of any games.

 

Just look at the game dvr feature built into Windows 10 as well, it's part of it, no app in the middle like fraps. It thus works with everything, nothing has to be done on the game side.

 

I believe games will be no different, developers won't need to code a Xbox for Windows version to use it like they have with one of the other stores out there, it should be the same as the Xbox One. You install the game through the store and it works, nothing else to install, no clients sitting between the game and the backend service.

It was marketed pretty heavily.  It was part of Games for Windows Live and was one of the big selling points of it at the time.  They also had Xbox achievements integration on the PC, voice chats across platforms, send/recieve messages across platforms, cross platform friends lists, etc..  I've never owned an Xbox but I have a "Gamertag" for an Xbox Live account and achievements because of Games for Windows Live.  Games for Windows Live failed horribly and I'm not sure what's different about Xbox Live that would avoid a similar fate.  On the surface at least they look nearly identical (I don't mean the UI, but the capabilities).

Only one game made use of a similar capability: Shadowrun

It was promoted, but I dont remember it ever talked about in this fashion. There was certainly not easy access to the xbl apis for any developer. I used GFWL myself, but it never felt really connected outside of the syncing of data. The UI and OS just seemed so removed from what everyone was use to on the Xbox and it was not as refined as the Steam client.

If MS is truly going with a more open option this time, one that is built into the OS and not tied to a seperate app, then I think this a great improvement. The Xbox app coming to Win 10 is not a replacement for GFWL. It will not be managing updates, etc. Its there to bring a unified experience between the X1 and PCs. It will offer many of the same features of GFWL as far as syncing achievements and such, but with a UI that does not seem clunky compared to Steam. We will have to see if the app will grow in capability to be more like a Steam experience or if it will stick with being a unified app for gaming related social features across pcs and xbox.

 

The only ones that clearly benefit from this are former Xbox exclusives that want to move to PC but the bar was previously too high.  Now that bar is lower but if they were formerly Xbox exclusives I bet there is going to be some pressure for them to stay that way.  Fable Legends is a good example of this and I really hope it pans out and most Xbox exclusives become Xbox/Win10 exclusive instead.  As a PC gamer who doesn't own an Xbox I think that would be great because there would be absolutely no reason to ever buy an Xbox if pretty much everything comes out on PC as well.  I'm pretty sure a large faction of the Xbox community would be VERY upset if there were no more (or very few) Xbox exclusives though.

MS is always in the unfair position of having to choose between the two platforms. Sony and Nintendo get to happily keep games from the pc and get little flac over it. MS gets yelled at all the time becuase they have any exclusive games on the Xbox. Its usually from pc gamers that dont want any console, but you rarely hear that outcry against any other console platform.

I dont know what the answer is. You laid it out pretty clearly. If MS made all X1 games available on the pc, you would have no reason to buy an xbox. You dont care if it kills the xbox becuase you had no interest to begin with. Unfortuantely, MS can't think of it in those terms. They have to compete against Sony and Nintendo. Who do they have to compete with on pc? Steam is not a competitor, its a service that runs on MS' platform. Heck, MS even mentioned them as part of the live event. They are building OS level features that can be used while using Steam. That's a sign that MS is more interested in growing Windows vs 'taking out' Steam.

 

 

Well it will be interesting to see if there is a mass exodus for PC games from Steam to Windows Store as their primary digital distribution method.

Whoever wins that will likely win the "middleware" battle for features that depend on community (voice chat, friends lists, etc.)

Maybe MS will pull it off but if I had to bet my money would be on Steam (like them or not).

Where is the evidence that MS intends to fight that battle? It seems to me that MS may be trying to avoid that fight and instead focus on brining X1 gaming features over to Windows that you can use regardless of the service you are using.

I hope we actually see MS reach out to Steam, Origin, GOG, etc and allow them to be a part of the Windows Store. Its not so far fetched either. Stores within a store so to speak.

Only one game made use of a similar capability: Shadowrun

That's not true. Shadowrun was the launch title for the capability but it wasn't the ONLY game that made use of it.

According to the Wikipedia text here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_for_Windows_%E2%80%93_Live

Universe at War: Earth Assault from Sega and Lost Planet: Colonies Edition from Capcom also included cross platform play. I doubt that's a comprehensive list of every game to ever support it though either.

Furthermore they have a list of games here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Games_for_Windows_%E2%80%93_Live_titles

Which supported it for Multiplayer, Matchmaking, etc. so it would have likely been trivial to add cross platform support if they wanted, since they were already using the APIs but the developers CHOSE not to either because they didn't want to player bases to mix or they just didn't release a console version of the game at all.

Any game that's on PlayStation 3 and PC could theoretically be cross platform as well. Sony didn't have chat servers and such last gen (that's new for the PS4 and why you now have to play for multiplayer) and doesn't have a "walled garden" so when a company rolls their own voice solution for their game nothing prevents them from letting PS3 and PC players connect to the same sever. Yet they CHOOSE to segregate the communities. They do that due to perceived advantages in controls between the communities as well as because on PC they can roll out patches as fast as they want where they have to submit them for approval on consoles and they don't want to hold up PC releases because of console approval issues since you have to have the same version to connect. None of this has changed between then and now.

It was promoted, but I dont remember it ever talked about in this fashion. There was certainly not easy access to the xbl apis for any developer.

Well I'm sorry you don't remember it but it WAS promoted pretty heavily and it was touted in the same way. It was a way to unify Vista and Xbox 360 player bases, common friends list, achievements, cross platform messaging and voice chat, etc. It was pushed pretty hard and there absolutely was easy access to the xbl apis for developers. Epic even integrated support for it into Unreal Engine 3 so if you were an Unreal engine licensee most of the work was already done for you. There wouldn't be that long list of games that supported various parts of it if it was difficult for developers to use.

I used GFWL myself, but it never felt really connected outside of the syncing of data. The UI and OS just seemed so removed from what everyone was use to on the Xbox and it was not as refined as the Steam client.

I'm not arguing the UI for the client was good. That's subjective and it has nothing at all to do with how available and easy the APIs are for developers to use. I thought the UI was bad as well but then again I think the Steam UI is pretty bad too. Personally I can't stand the aesthetics of the "flat" UI MS uses in Win10 either but that's just cosmetics and not a major factor in my OS decision. I'm actually looking forward to Win10 overall despite the fact I think the UI is pretty ugly. To each his own but that's beside the point.

If MS is truly going with a more open option this time,

If MS is truly going with a more open option this time they'd find some way to link with existing systems instead of trying to replace them. You'd be able to voice chat from an Xbox to Steam to PSN, that's open. They're not going with a more open option this time, they're trying to promote a new version of their closed option.

one that is built into the OS and not tied to a seperate app, then I think this a great improvement.

So because the Xbox Live app is bundled with the OS instead of being a separate download that somehow makes it inherently better? It's still an app. It just happens to come with the OS instead of separately. That doesn't inherently make any difference at all. Maybe it's prettier, maybe it's better written, but the fact it comes with the OS by itself or as you call it "built into the OS" doesn't make it better all by itself.

The Xbox app coming to Win 10 is not a replacement for GFWL. It will not be managing updates, etc.

The point was that the cross platform support, achievements, friends list, etc. aren't new to Xbox Live. They already tried all of that with GFWL. No it doesn't sell you games or manage updates, they have the Windows Store for that now so it doesn't make sense to have a different marketplace for games. That and a prettier UI doesn't make it an entirely new and revolutionary beast. It's a second, perhaps better, attempt at the same thing GFWL was trying to do.

Its there to bring a unified experience between the X1 and PCs.

Just as GFWL was there to bring a unified experience between 360 and PC. The point is that it's not a new thing. It's a second attempt to do the same thing. Maybe it will be much better this time and so maybe it will work but it's not some new thing they are doing.

MS is always in the unfair position of having to choose between the two platforms. Sony and Nintendo get to happily keep games from the pc and get little flac over it. MS gets yelled at all the time becuase they have any exclusive games on the Xbox. Its usually from pc gamers that dont want any console, but you rarely hear that outcry against any other console platform.

I don't believe Sony or Nintendo try to prevent 3rd parties from releasing their games on PC. In fact I seem to recall just recently there have been some announcements about PS4 "console exclusives" coming to PC as well. Of course they don't release first party games on PC, it's not their platform. Windows IS Microsoft's platform. It's not unreasonable then to expect a Microsoft game to run on a Microsoft OS. That's an entirely different thing from expecting a Sony or Nintendo game from running on a Microsoft platform.

I dont know what the answer is. You laid it out pretty clearly. If MS made all X1 games available on the pc, you would have no reason to buy an xbox. You dont care if it kills the xbox becuase you had no interest to begin with. Unfortuantely, MS can't think of it in those terms. They have to compete against Sony and Nintendo. Who do they have to compete with on pc? Steam is not a competitor, its a service that runs on MS' platform. Heck, MS even mentioned them as part of the live event. They are building OS level features that can be used while using Steam. That's a sign that MS is more interested in growing Windows vs 'taking out' Steam.

I think you're looking at that wrong. You're right, if they make X1 games available on the PC then I have no reason to buy an Xbox. That doesn't mean NO ONE does though. I happen to build my own computer where I spend more on the GPU alone than the entire Xbox costs. I am a PC gamer first. I am not the norm. There are A LOT of people who don't have the money, time, and/or interest to build a gaming PC like I do. Those people aren't going to get rid of their Xboxes and buy gaming PCs because all the Xbox games are also available on Win10.

I think you're looking at that wrong. You're right, if they make X1 games available on the PC then I have no reason to buy an Xbox. That doesn't mean NO ONE does though. I happen to build my own computer where I spend more on the GPU alone than the entire Xbox costs. I am a PC gamer first. I am not the norm. There are A LOT of people who don't have the money, time, and/or interest to build a gaming PC like I do. Those people aren't going to get rid of their Xboxes and buy gaming PCs because all the Xbox games are also available on Win10.

 

Your elitism is showing there bro. No matter what you say, releasing xbox exclusives on PC would damage xbox sales end of story. 

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Where is the evidence that MS intends to fight that battle? It seems to me that MS may be trying to avoid that fight and instead focus on brining X1 gaming features over to Windows that you can use regardless of the service you are using.

The defacto voice server for Windows games is already Steam. Steam already offers achievements. Steam already has friends lists. etc. By offering another, yet incompatible version they ARE fighting a battle. Developers will have to choose one or divide their player base, possibly confuse users, and increase their dev time by supporting multiple.

I hope we actually see MS reach out to Steam, Origin, GOG, etc and allow them to be a part of the Windows Store. Its not so far fetched either. Stores within a store so to speak.

I don't see that happening. Typically offering stores within stores is EXPLICITLY prohibited by store owners. Store owners typically take like a 30% cut of the software sold through it. So a game is on Windows Store and Steam then who gets the 30%? Do they both and the software developer just gets the 40% that's left? What developer would do that, they'd just release on one or the other directly and pay the 30% to one instead of a total of 60% to two. If they split it why would Steam give up part of their 30% on games to MS or vice versa? Furthermore if they DO allow stores then EA for example could just set up an EA store that was a free Windows Store download (MS gets 30% of nothing) and then sell all their games through that, giving MS nothing on the individual games.

I would have liked to see MS actually reach out to Steam, Origin, GoG, Sony, etc. and provide an "open" voice solution, a shared "friends list", interoperable messaging, etc. That would have been something amazing but this is just another competitor (maybe a very good one.) By creating a competitor they are showing they intend to "fight that battle".

Your elitism is showing there bro. No matter what you say, releasing xbox exclusives on PC would damage xbox sales end of story.

My elitism was my point. The point is that it's a rare few crazy people (like me) who spend a ton of money building a gaming PC when compared to PC owners in general. I'd image most of those "elite" gamers don't buy consoles at all you know "PC Master race", yadda, yadda, and all that. I'm not in that crowd personally, I DO have a PS4 but the point being is that consoles offer simplicity and a bang for your buck that appeals to most people if you have exclusives or not. Maybe a few people would stop buying consoles but it's likely a VERY small percentage of the Xbox user base that would suddenly stop buying Xboxes because all the games were available on Windows 10. Just because it's available on Windows 10 doesn't make it easy to use or mean you have the system specs to run it.

If I'm so representative though and like me most people wouldn't buy an Xbox One if the games were all on PC what exactly has the exclusives gained them. I still don't have an Xbox so they didn't earn my sale by keeping games exclusive. All they've done is lost my money on any Xbox games. Maybe I'd buy Halo or Gears of War or Forza if it was available on PC. I'd say the money they made from PC gamers buying formerly exclusive Xbox games would more than offset the money they lost from people abandoning the console for PC if the games were on both.

Your elitism is showing there bro. No matter what you say, releasing xbox exclusives on PC would damage xbox sales end of story. 

 

And what's the problem with that? Both products are made by MS. MS will never get rich with the xbox. It's pocket money at the very best. What MS should aim at is make the store the most popular they can. This is where the money is. And to maximize this MS needs both PC and xbox.

 

There's no such thing as consoles anymore. Not like they used to be when Nintendo was king. The consoles are basically custom PC in a small box.

 

MS should stop to see the PC as a competitor to the xbox. It should be considered one product

And what's the problem with that? Both products are made by MS. MS will never get rich with the xbox. It's pocket money at the very best. What MS should aim at is make the store the most popular they can. This is where the money is. And to maximize this MS needs both PC and xbox.

 

There's no such thing as consoles anymore. Not like they used to be when Nintendo was king. The consoles are basically custom PC in a small box.

 

MS should stop to see the PC as a competitor to the xbox. It should be considered one product

The defacto voice server for Windows games is already Steam.

 

Heh, no, I've had people insist on anything from TS to Ventrilo and Mumble to even some who insist on Skype, NEVER have I heard anyone say or insists "you need to connect to our Steam voice chat". Steam is like one of those built in voice chats that no one actually uses, even though it's there and better integrated into the game than the option they use. 

Heh, no, I've had people insist on anything from TS to Ventrilo and Mumble to even some who insist on Skype, NEVER have I heard anyone say or insists "you need to connect to our Steam voice chat". Steam is like one of those built in voice chats that no one actually uses, even though it's there and better integrated into the game than the option they use. 

 

I didn't mean for users to pick.  Steam provides Voice Chat APIs for game developers to integrate into their games as part of their Steamworks services.  If developers don't care to integrate voice directly in their game with steam they probably aren't going to use the MS APIs either.  Sure steam also allows voice chat initiated directly from the client (outside the game itself) but that's supposed to be there for games that don't have voice chat built in and you're right that's almost never used.

 

So there are two situations here.  One, you're a developer and you want to integrate voice into your game.  Your primary distribution method is Steam.  Are you going to use the Steam API that will allow anyone using Steam on any platform steam runs on that you release your game on (WinXP, Vista, Win8.x, Win10, maybe even Linux and Mac) to communicate together or are you going to pick an API that only works with Xbox and Win10 users?  Somehow I doubt many will pick the MS API.

 

The other situation is the developer won't use ANY API and instead rely on an external program (Steam's client Voice Chat, TeamSpeak, Ventrilo, etc.) Now MAYBE gamers will choose to use the Win10/Xbox voice chat but I doubt that too because your clans and stuff probably have people that aren't using Win10 or Xbox so you'd want to stick with things that run on more platforms.  I don't see a mass exodus from TeamSpeak and Ventrilo to a MS provided voice server that only works on Windows 10 and Xbox.

 

Now maybe just about everyone will upgrade to Windows 10 and almost no gamers will be left on Windows 7 so developers will be fine with their chat not working on older windows boxes.  Maybe they also won't care about mac or linux capability since they're pretty small segments of the gaming market.  Maybe tons of future Xbox games will allow Xbox players to play together with Win10 players and so having a shared platform between the two will be a huge deal even if it's at the expense of compatibility with everything else.  I wouldn't be on it though.

And that was my point, NO ONE uses the in game voice API's for whatever reason. well for some games the reason is obvious as they often have the same limits as chat, Dead people can't speak, use TS/Vent/Mumble and problem solved...  for people who want to win this is more important than built in features like in the RB6 games where you can actually hear other people talking over voice of they're nearby, neat, but ultimately dead people talking is worth more :/  sometimes I wish games could block third party voice services, but the dedicated would just use a separate laptop for it, which many do on consoles...

 

 

So whatever API they use for in game voice coms, it's not going to be used by users. unless they drop the dead people can't talk function,then they might, but even then as you say, many use TS/Vent/Mumble for more than one game and have people not even playing or playing other games on there as well. when they're not playing competitively. At this point, adding voice coms in game is pretty much a waste of dev resources, granted for consoles you get it for free...

I'm also interested in the new dashboard they've been teasing ...

 

What what? Or do you mean the one from the W10 promo image? If so, i think that's just a mockup rather than something that's going to happen.

What what? Or do you mean the one from the W10 promo image? If so, i think that's just a mockup rather than something that's going to happen.

Yes, that's what I meant. The other interfaces on the other devices look really similar to what they're going for, so it would be nice if that's the actual interface.

I'm skeptical too, because it'd be a huge change from the current interface, but I wonder why they would show a concept to the public instead of something they're actually building? And they already showed it multiple times.

 

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    • A review of Synology's BeeCamera software for the BeeStation Plus by Christopher White Synology is leaning into the BeeStation and the BeeStation Plus, and it's easy to understand why. While power users will want something more customizable, the BeeStation and its more powerful sibling, the BeeStation Plus, are great for those who want a device they can simply plug in, click a few buttons, and have it work as their own personal cloud. Until recently, the device was mostly used for the storage of files, photos, and videos, and with the Plus model, you could install and stream media through Plex. Synology recently released a new free application for the BeeStation Plus called BeeCamera, which is basically a stripped-down version of Surveillance Station. First, let's get the confusing naming out of the way. While you might initially think that BeeCamera is a physical device, perhaps a camera that Synology created specifically for the BeeStation Plus, that would be incorrect. BeeCamera is simply the name for the application that runs on the NAS and on your mobile device. I think the marketing team missed the mark here, but it does fit the other naming on the device, like BeePhotos and BeeFiles, I guess. Camera Support As of right now, only Synology-branded cameras are supported, which many will see as a callback to the drive locking the company implemented and then backtracked on. That said, while I 100% disagree on drive locking, I agree that camera locking for a device made to simply plug and play is the right decision. The whole point of the BeeStation line is simplicity. There are currently three camera model lines available, a wireless device for indoor use, and two PoE models for external use. CC400W (Wi-Fi): Plug it into power using the included power adapter, and connect it to your wireless network. This camera is rated only for indoor use and is the one I was provided to review the BeeCamera. $198.36, in line with the Unifi G6 Compact. BC510 (PoE): A bullet-style camera. Connect it to an Ethernet cable that is providing Power over Ethernet (PoE). This camera is rated for both indoor and outdoor use. $240. TC510 (PoE): A dome-style camera. Connect it to an Ethernet cable that is providing Power over Ethernet (PoE). This camera is rated for both indoor and outdoor use. $240. Although this isn't a review of the actual Synology camera, I did want to note that a positive for the Synology CC400W is that it uses a magnetic base. This means you can mount it on any magnetic surface, which is pretty handy. However, a downside to the camera is that it's powered by a built-in USB cable that's about six and a half feet (two meters) long. This means that the cable will probably be either too long or too short, but more importantly, if the cable is damaged at all, you'll likely need to buy an entirely new camera because there doesn't appear to be a way to replace it, unlike many competitors, like the Unifi G6 Instant. Hopefully, this is something Synology addresses in a future revision of the hardware. The BeeStation Plus supports up to four cameras. Setup The setup of BeeCamera is, like everything in the BeeStation family, very straightforward. Simply make sure you're on at least version 1.5 of the BeeStation OS, and BeeCamera is automatically installed on the device. BeeCamera Setup Screenshots Setting up the CC400W was just as easy. Plug it in, open up the BeeCamera app, and follow the on-screen steps to add the camera. During this process, you'll configure the camera name and how many days of retention you want to keep. The system will also automatically update the firmware for you. The whole thing took only a couple of minutes, excluding the time it took for the camera to update the firmware. Once the camera is connected to the BeeStation Plus, you can manage the various camera settings within the app, although there aren't many to choose from. You're able to configure whether the microphone will record audio (some privacy laws may preclude you from recording it), select what codec to use (H.264 or H.265), configure the color and exposure of the camera, and determine what data you want to overlay onto the video. Finally, you can set up AI detections so that BeeCamera will alert you if it sees certain things. These are all of the common detections you would expect in a camera system, such as people, pets, and vehicles. Under people and vehicles, you can also add extra monitoring for lingering and congestion detection, although pets are currently in "Lab" and therefore have no extra features yet. Recording in 4K using H.265 for 30 days will take roughly 300 GB of storage, which is very reasonable for most regular households, as the BeeStation Plus has 8TB of native storage. If you want to set up detection zones, you can. These are areas that BeeCamera will look at for the various detections, and are helpful if, for example, there's a tree in your frame and you don't want to be notified each time the wind makes the branches move around in the frame. Finally, you can also schedule when the camera should and should not be recording, which is a very useful feature. For example, you may want to record only at night when you're sleeping, but not during the day when you're up and about the house, so you can easily shut the camera off between 8 am and 10 pm. Each hour of each day can be configured to record continuously, only upon a detection event, or disabled completely. You can't fine-tune to record at a specific time, though, only hourly blocks on the hour. Daily Use The best part of BeeCamera is that it's easy and just works. If you only care about being notified when things happen, the mobile app sends those notifications and lets you click the button to bring up the video and see what's going on. For example, when I went out of town and had the camera pointed at the cat tower in our hallway, it was nice to be able to drop in and check that my furry friends were doing okay without me. Initiating the remote connection to the BeeStation Plus through the app is very responsive, but this will heavily depend on your ISP. In my case, using Xfinity, I'm able to go from starting the app to seeing live video in roughly three seconds, which is about the same amount of time it takes to connect to my Unifi UNVR system that costs much more. If you want to see footage from a specific day and time, you can do so using the calendar icon. You can also scroll through the timeline, looking for detections that are labeled in blue (vs. the normal gray when there's nothing of interest). There are buttons that let you go to the last/next detection on the timeline, which is helpful if you missed the notification on your mobile device. That's where the ease of use stops, though. While you can download clips that are flagged by detection, there's apparently no way to select generic time frames you're interested in, and the only place to download is to your phone. In addition, sharing a video shares the actual video, not just a link back to your BeeStation Plus. While that's good from a security and privacy perspective, it's a little awkward for sharing large videos. Limitations While the ease of implementation is great, there are some things that are lacking from BeeCamera. The most obvious is that there is no way to view the footage on the desktop. You can log in to the BeeStation Plus to see how much storage BeeCamera is using, but unlike BeePhotos and BeeFiles, there is no BeeCamera on the web console to manage or view footage. This means you'll be viewing all of your security footage on your mobile device, which is pretty limiting. In addition, there's no way to download the video to your PC without first using your phone as the intermediary. The one exception to this is that you can use BeeFiles to see the raw MP4 files. They're saved in 5-minute increments, and it's just raw data with no detection information or any other way to identify what any of them are. The lack of a way to interact with BeeCamera on the desktop also makes configuration of the cameras more difficult. For example, trying to set up detection zones using a tiny screen and your finger to draw boxes is more cumbersome than it needs to be. This reinforces the idea that BeeCamera is not made for power users. It's also missing some of the more advanced functionality of Surveillance Station. For example, I couldn't find a way to say, "Alert me if the thing in this zone is no longer there." Another major deficiency with BeeCamera, and a feature I suspect may come out in the future, is that while it can detect generic people, there is no specific facial recognition yet. This is an interesting omission, given the fact that other Synology tools can detect specific individuals, and competitors such as Unifi Protect also do it. This is probably a software limitation, so we will have to wait and see if this feature is added in the future. Conclusion If you need a security guard to monitor surveillance cameras to make sure your property is secure, then BeeCamera is not the solution for you. That said, you probably wouldn't be using a BeeStation Plus as the brains behind the system either. BeeCamera (and BeeStation in general) is clearly aimed at households that want to avoid sending personal data to Google and Amazon, and now want to add some cameras to keep an eye on their home and their pets while they're away. BeeCamera excels at doing this. The target market isn't interested in creating cases, tying multiple views together in a single pane of glass, or the like, and for the intended use case, the system works great. Where it starts to fall apart a bit is with more advanced features. Not being able to use a desktop app is a major compromise in my opinion, and having to do all of the configuration on a mobile device is annoying, but not impossible. If you don't want to have a full-fledged NAS device in your home, but still want control over your data (or maybe want an easy way to backup your data for World Backup Day), and want to add a couple of cameras to keep an eye on your house and your pets, this is a great, cheap, and easy way to go, and I suspect more functionality will come over time. If Synology releases a desktop app or at least a way to configure cameras and view footage on a desktop browser, this would be a near-perfect solution for a general home user. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • I forgot to add on my comment that when robots will take physical jobs, it's when they become more cheaper to manufacture and sell. That will be the starting point of the end to lanscaping, trash pickup, factory jobs, etc.
    • How many people can actually use a 2.5gig ethernet port? Most people do not have more than a 1gig internet connection, heck most have less than that. Most people at home do not have a switch that has multiple 2.5gig ports either.
    • Vantrue knocks up to 38% off two of its newest Dash Cams for Prime Day by Steven Parker Vantrue reached out to us here at Neowin saying they have a couple of dashcams with deep discounts during the Prime Day Sale. First up we have the Vantrue N4 Pro S that received a mega 36% off its normal MSRP of $419.99 (buying links below). Here are a few of its highlights: Flagship 4K 3CH Dash Cam w/ Triple STARVIS 2: Vantrue's flagship N4 Pro s Dash Camera features 4K+2.5K+1080P /30FPS 3 channel recording powered by Triple STARVIS 2 sensors. Dash cams deliver 155°+160°+165° wide-angle coverage for complete blind-spot-free protection. Whether navigating city traffic, monitoring passengers, or capturing scenic views, this professional-grade car dash camera ensures smooth, detailed footage day and night. Night Vision 4.0 & License Plate Recognition Unleash superior clarity at night with 360 dash camera for cars. Powered by PlatePix tech, dashcam combines 3 STARVIS 2 sensors (enhanced low-light sensitivity) and triple HDR (balanced exposure) for 2x higher license plate accuracy in dimly lit nights or intense backlight. Experience unmatched performance on nocturnal drives, where the system captures clear, readable license plates of vehicles traveling at speeds up to 31mph. Flexible 360° Rear Camera & Front+Rear Recording Modes: The rear dash camera features a 2.5K STARVIS 2 sensor with 360° rotation, enabling seamless traffic or trunk monitoring. Switch to Front and Rear mode (4K+2.5K) to prioritize road recording—this dual-channel mode reduces heat by 30% and saves power compared to triple recording, ensuring 4k dash cam cooler operation and 24/7 reliability even in summer. Captures clear, readable license plates at speeds up to 31mph on lit streets at night. 24/7 Protection with Buffered Parking Mode: Gain round-the-clock security for your parked vehicle with reliable dash cam 3 channel system. Buffered motion and impact detection ensure events are captured from 10 seconds before they occur. All three cameras remain active in parking mode, providing comprehensive surveillance while efficient recording maximizes storage. To activate parking modes, a hardwire kit (sold separately) is required for permanent connection to your vehicle's fuse box. 5G WiFi, Precision GPS, Voice Control: This advanced car video camera dash cam maintains a stable connection to your phone. Its 5GHz WiFi ensures lightning-fast video transfer, making downloads a breeze. The built-in high-precision GPS tracks your route, speed, and location—providing vital data for any incidents. Control settings hands-free with simple voice commands like "Take a photo," keeping you focused on the road. Loop Recording & Super Capacitor & up to 1TB Support: Dash cams revolutionize convenience with loop recording featuring 1/2/3-minute segments. When memory is full, it automatically overwrites older footage. Engineered for reliability, its robust super capacitor withstands extreme temps(-4°F to 140°F), guaranteeing uninterrupted operation even in scorching sun. Expand storage with up to 1TB microSD support, enabling 37+ hours of continuous 4K triple-camera recording (front+inside+rear). VANTRUE Memory Card Recommendation: Note: Dash cam does not include an SD card. Avoid using low-quality memory cards to prevent the camera from malfunctioning. We recommend using VANTRUE industrial-grade microSD cards, which offer longer lifespan (over 3 years) compared to consumer-grade. VANTRUE memory cards are rigorously tested specifically for dash cam recording to ensure optimal performance. Available on Amazon in 64GB, 128GB, 256GB, and 512GB capacities to suit your storage needs. So marketing jargon aside, what do you actually get? What's in the box? N4 Pro S Dash Cam, Rear Camera, 20ft rear camera cable Charging Cable Installation Tool Car Mount Quick Guide Vantrue also claims it is easy to install and comes with an 18-Month Warranty, 24/7 email support, and a 100% satisfaction guarantee. The Dash cam is said to also receive regular firmware updates for continuous improvements. With the 20ft rear camera cable, it is versatile enough to fit most vehicles, including cars, SUVs, minivans, trucks, and buses. Vantrue N4 Pro S for $269.99 (was $379.99) 36% off its MSRP of $419.99 No code required. Discount expires on June 26. Vantrue N4S (2026) Next up, there's an even bigger discount on the new (2026 edition) N4S Dash Cam. 2026 New 3-Channel Dash Cam & 360°Coverage Equipped with triple STARVIS 2-powered sensors, the Vantrue N4S dashcam records in super HD clarity: 2.7K front + 1440P interior + 1440P rear.Its 158° front, 165° cabin, and 160°rear wide-angle lenses eliminate blind spots, while HDR and PlatePix technology deliver sharp details and license plates day or night. This dash cam for cars is perfect for rideshare drivers and daily commuters. Night Vision 4.0 & High Temperature Proof Powered by STARVIS 2 Tech, the N4S dashcam for cars enhances light sensitivity and dynamic range in extreme low light. Triple HDR balances harsh contrasts—like headlights against dark roads—while PlatePix sharpens license plates by 2X, capturing crisp, identifiable footage on dark streets, in tunnels, or garages. This New N4S dashcam's supercapacitor design withstands extreme temperatures(-4℉ to 140℉), ensuring stable operation—safer and greener. Easy to Install & 360°versatile Rear Camera Set up effortlessly with our magnetic GPS mount, static cling film, and cable clips. Everything is tool‑free for a clean, wire‑hidden installation, and the mount stays stable on any drive. The rear camera rotates 360°, letting you monitor rear traffic or pivot it inward to keep an eye on cargo, luggage, or pets inside the vehicle. Versatile coverage whenever you need it. 24/7 Smart Parking Mode for Peace of Mind With 4 proprietary parking modes, the N4S 3-channel dashcam for cars lets you customize your protection. Motion detection triggers 10 seconds pre-event recording to capture full event. Collision detection auto-locks footage on impact/collision. Low bitrate/frame rate modes extend recording by reducing file size. Whatever the hour, your vehicle is always protected. 5GHz Wi-Fi & Support up to 1TB SD Card Access and download footage instantly with high‑speed 5GHz Wi-Fi. No need to remove the memory card or wait for transfers—critical clips are ready to view or share in seconds. This dash cam front and rear supports up to 1TB microSD cards (sold separately), giving you ample space for long trips or continuous loop recording. OTA firmware updates ensure your dashcam stays current with the latest features and improvements. So, again, aside from the marketing fluff mentioned above what do you actually get? What's in the box? Vantrue N4S Front and Inside Dash Cam x 1 Rear Camera x 1, Rear Camera Cable (20ft) x 1 Transparency Program card (with digital setup guide) x 1 Car Charger(11.5ft) x 1 USB Data Cable(3.3ft) x 1 GPS Adhesive Mount x 1 Crowbar x 1 Quick User Guide x 1 Electrostatic Stickers x 2 Spare Bracket Base Cable Clips The 2026 Edition of the N4S lets you track your journey with quad-mode GPS + BeiDou positioning. Experience supposedly faster satellite acquisition and reliable logging of your speed, location, and time in any environment. For rideshare or road trips, you can also trust the N4S dash cam front rear and inside cameras as your reliable co-driver. Like the Vantrue N4 Pro S, it is also backed by 24/7 support and extended warranty for complete peace of mind. Vantrue N4S (2026) for $174.99 (was $249.99) 38% off its MSRP of $279.99 No code required. Discount expires on June 26. Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • The concern of this article is not getting "hacked". No one is taking over my Google account and anyone that was is far away from self-hosting their passwords. It was about your big tech account of choice deciding to reduce features or getting out of the password manager business altogether. Bitwarden (or say Proton) is professional security company offering opensource solutions. They are going no where and one can easily download or export their passwords to another password manager service regardless. They again also offer self-hosted option. I doubt many people were sold on this solution based on the write up. The author had a number of warnings and caveats themselves. A local, self-managed solution is not for 99% of users.
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