Xbox 360 emulation and the future

[Billaguana]

So, since this has been announced and we know that they sort of developed the Xbox OS off with some Hyper-V services configuration, do you think this 360 gaming is going to be a pure VM running alongside the One OS or is it going to be running off the One OS? Is the One OS going to be the host OS or is there something else that is currently the host for the One OS that will also host the 360 image?

If it turns out to be that the One OS is also a VM running off Hyper-V, then does that mean Microsoft is "streaming" the game to the computer, and I'm talking windows 10 here, by simply having the computer connect to a Hyper-V machine over the network? Or are they pulling an NVidia and actually streaming the data?

And, does anyone know about 360 emulation and streaming to PC? Are we going to be able to stream our 360 games as well?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

If streaming to another device, like the PC, is just a video output then absolutely anything running on the Xbox One can be streamed. It would work similarly to a PS4 streaming to a Vita, Vita TV or an Xperia device. Anything the PS4 does is simply mirrored on the device streamed to. So yes is the answer to that question

Local streaming is really versatile. It's once you start streaming from a data center hundreds if not thousands of miles away that introduces more hurdles with things like lag.

[George P Global Moderator]

You can stream your 360 games to a Windows 10 PC no problem, as for the code, it's a VM running it's own instance next to the other OS'.  In the dashboard it'll look just like any other game/app that's running, the UI doesn't let you tell the difference.   The Xbox One OS isn't a host OS in this case, it's just another VM running on the main Xbox One Hyper-v OS.

[Showan]

You can stream your 360 games to a Windows 10 PC no problem, as for the code, it's a VM running it's own instance next to the other OS'.  In the dashboard it'll look just like any other game/app that's running, the UI doesn't let you tell the difference.   The Xbox One OS isn't a host OS in this case, it's just another VM running on the main Xbox One Hyper-v OS.

 

So the 360OS runs side by side with the One OS, and lets the 2 run simultaneously.  As well as mingle with each other (Game DVR, Screenshots, etc)?

 

That is an engineering feat when you think about it.

[Showan]

I think Microsoft is now truly in the process of transcending the Xbox Brand/Platform.  It seems that the Xbox Gaming Name/Brand will no longer be tied to a definitive box (a la: Xbox Music, Video), but almost any box.  Games (if publishers allow it) will follow the account/gamertag and not be confined to the box it was initially made for.

 

I know this is off topic but;  The other day I went to visit my brother and nephews, I had my WD 4TB external HDD with me.  I logged into my nephews Xbox One with my gamertag, hooked up the external drive.

And he was allowed to play all of my games (without having to download or install them) with his gamertag.  

 

Wow times have changed in my 36yrs of life...

[Billaguana]

So the 360OS runs side by side with the One OS, and lets the 2 run simultaneously.  As well as mingle with each other (Game DVR, Screenshots, etc)?

 

That is an engineering feat when you think about it.

 

Not so much. Microsoft loves their Hyper-V stuff and everyone was a bit skeptical to see it merge its way into our gaming consoles, but when they announced the various features coming with the One, then it made more sense. As for engineering, Microsoft pumped the Xbox One with hardware a little ahead of what was needed for most console games. Think about the 360, the console that lasted 10 years with the same hardware. When they gave the One a TON more power, they were really giving it wiggle room for things like this 360 VM.

 

 

I think Microsoft is now truly in the process of transcending the Xbox Brand/Platform.  It seems that the Xbox Gaming Name/Brand will no longer be tied to a definitive box (a la: Xbox Music, Video), but almost any box.  Games (if publishers allow it) will follow the account/gamertag and not be confined to the box it was initially made for.

 

I know this is off topic but;  The other day I went to visit my brother and nephews, I had my WD 4TB external HDD with me.  I logged into my nephews Xbox One with my gamertag, hooked up the external drive.

And he was allowed to play all of my games (without having to download or install them) with his gamertag.  

 

Wow times have changed in my 36yrs of life...

 

I don't think they are trying to ditch the Xbox brand, but rather expand it. For years, devices have been separate and only intermingle with other devices on a short term bases. Microsoft is trying to remove these barriers between your devices and make it so any Microsoft product you have can talk and interact with any other Microsoft product you have. This includes merging Xbox Gaming with their Windows PCs. If you remember, back in the day games used to have this little sticker syaing if they were going to be Windows Live enabled. They ditched that a while ago, and I think it was because Microsoft has been planning to merge all their products for some time now. Making it so your Xbox can play to your PC or tablet, while you control it with your Windows Phone. Again, pushing universal-iality (?) is awesome imo and I can't wait to be running Windows 10 on my phone, Xbox, PC, and tablet.

[Jarrichvdv]

Not so much. Microsoft loves their Hyper-V stuff and everyone was a bit skeptical to see it merge its way into our gaming consoles, but when they announced the various features coming with the One, then it made more sense. As for engineering, Microsoft pumped the Xbox One with hardware a little ahead of what was needed for most console games. Think about the 360, the console that lasted 10 years with the same hardware. When they gave the One a TON more power, they were really giving it wiggle room for things like this 360 VM.

I think there is no denying that Microsoft pulled off an impressive feat of engineering here.

[Billaguana]

I think there is no denying that Microsoft pulled off an impressive feat of engineering here.

 

Its a specialized Hyper-V. Engineering wise, they may have redesigned the OS to run a bit more simply, but overall they are loading up a VM. My Desktop could run both VMs simultaneously if I had access to them. I guess overall I will say, congrats Microsoft for redesigning the 360 OS to be simply run for specialized uses, but its not something revolutionary that they have done. "Amazing feat of engineering" might be up-selling it, more like "about time they instituted this".

[adam.mt]

Billaguana: I think you're underplaying the fact of the different processor architectures, this is more than standard Hyper-V. Hyper-V only allows the running of different OS's, they still have to be able to natively run on the hardware which isn't the case here. Xbox 360 is PowerPC. Xbox One is x86-64, completely different.

 

They seem to have re-engineered the Xbox 360 OS to run on Intel and without much of a performance impact which is absolutely a big deal as it's never been done before. Even if it transpires that games are being 'ported' individually rather than pure 'emulation' then it's still a major feat. (I believe the technical details are still a little ambiguous at the mo, hence this comment).

[Billaguana]

I think you forgot about processor compatibility mode. Although this is from one Hyper-V on host CPU to another on different host, they could have imaged from a dev machine and allowed for the same CPU into a Hyper-V and then moved on to migrate to their current one.

[adam.mt]

Processor compatibility mode???

 

Try running an OS designed for a different CPU architecture on a Hyper-V VM and see how far it gets, I don't think you understand this at all.

[PaulATMOS]

Even Sony has complimented MS on achieving this backward compatibility.

[watkinsx2]

 

 

Use the Processor Compatibility Mode only in cases where VMs will migrate from one Hyper-V-enabled processor type to another within the same vendor processor family. Note that, while the name of this feature may give the impression, Processor Compatibility Mode does not enable migrations between AMD- and Intel-based hosts.

 

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg299590.aspx

 

So you can't even migrate between vendors let alone architecture with that feature.

[+InsaneNutter MVC]

The 360 is not exactly off the shelf hardware, so to emulate / virtualise a bespoke a triple core PowerPC Processor running at 3.2 GHz along with the bespoke graphics chip the 360 has is pretty impressive I think. It's not like the Xbox One / 360 even share the same processor architecture.

[Jarrichvdv]

I think you forgot about processor compatibility mode. Although this is from one Hyper-V on host CPU to another on different host, they could have imaged from a dev machine and allowed for the same CPU into a Hyper-V and then moved on to migrate to their current one.

Ok sir, you definitely proved you know nothing about the complexity involved in doing this. Downplaying the complexity of virtualization, and especially such special architecture as the Xbox 360 has, is pretty ignorant. Even competitors like Sony are praising Microsoft for the effort; so it's not up to you to claim here it's not something special :-)

[AeonicVision]

Keep in mind that OS X ran PowerPC apps on Intel hardware for several years, but nothing nearly as fancy as the 360 chip.

[President Devil]

Keep in mind that OS X ran PowerPC apps on Intel hardware for several years, but nothing nearly as fancy as the 360 chip.

 

Yeah, Rosetta was pretty awful.