Recommended Posts

I've been using Mozilla Firefox since its humble beginnings as Phoenix (from the ashes of the Mozilla Suite). Having been a rather proud user for quite a while (I even wrote some popular Firefox extension), I don't quite like the direction Mozilla is taking, including the oversimplified Australis UI and some other weird decisions; however, the latest beta 43.0 made DownThemAll! 3.0 (beta), one of the last extensions which stuck me to Firefox, not work anymore due to some signing issues. DTA!'s author had already said that he will stop further development when Firefox gets rid of XUL support which will be "soon" anyway.

So, basically, that's the last straw for me. Mozilla is not interested in having me as a user and extension developer anymore, so I'll happily leave if any browser can replace Firefox well enough.

Requirements

I have a couple of "requirements", features I learned to love and I wouldn't want to miss. "The browser" should be able to give me most of the following functionality (the more, the better) right from the core or with extensions:

  • An RSS icon in the address bar so I can see if the particular page has an RSS feed available.
  • A decent JavaScript blocker, such as µMatrix or (at least) NoScript.
  • Bookmarks with online backup/synchronisation.
    I've been using Xmarks since it was called Foxmarks, but I could live with moving my bookmarks to a different online service as long as it's in some way integrated in my browser. Pocket doesn't work for me, I need real folders.
  • Something like bookmark groups. For example, I open certain links once a day. In Firefox I have "open all in new tabs". It would be awesome to have that in the new browser too.
  • Tabs on the left side of the browser window. I use to have a plenty of them open at the same time and I like to keep an eye of them.
  • Support for user scripts.
  • Something like Firebug which allows me to modify a website's CSS on-the-fly.
  • A decent replacement for the combination of FlashGot and DownThemAll!, pretty much allowing me to download any media from any website with support for parallel downloads, pausing them, etc.
  • KeePass integration. I use KeePass to hold my passwords in a secure place and I wouldn't want to have them stored in a browser ever again. (Sorry - reasonable paranoia.)

What I have tried

The obvious solution, using SeaMonkey, has not worked for me - it lacks too many extensions. I also had a glance at Vivaldi which is promising and looks nice but I'll need to wait for its extensions before I can decide, I guess.

Pale Moon looks interesting, but I'm rather unsure concernings its future now that it has been completely forked from Firefox. While its author "promises" future XUL support, the main problem is that there mainly is only one author. Of course I had a look at the first beta of Pale Moon 26 so it could be an alternative, but I'd love to have more input.

Discuss! :)

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1277440-looking-for-a-firefox-replacement/
Share on other sites

Sadly Firefox is the last browser that gives the user a good experience while being very customisable. Sadly with XUL extensions being deprecated in the long run it will leave no real option except for Firefox forks but like you said the issue they will have in the long term is how can they continue to support XUL. Very sad the state of browsers in the near future. ######## Google with Chrome getting popular because Mozilla were too damn slow to pick up new features and stay competitive. Now Mozilla are trying to turn Firefox into some weird Chrome wannabe. It sucks as that is the opposite direction they should be going. They should be about ultimate customisation as well as performance and compatibility but nope, that is too hard, so they will just dumb Firefox down to Chrome levels and then wonder why they continue to keep losing users :(

  • Like 2

Doesn't Chrome even have any of those? :s

Pale Moon will probably break a lot if I disable the "Firefox compatibility" mode as it would require the add-ons to have separate PM compatibility. Oh, and it crashes instantly when I try to install Firebug. I know, it's still a beta and all, but... edit: Firebug is not even compatible with Pale Moon as of now. :(

Any more ideas?

What's wrong with using Chrome? I'm sure there are extensions/plugins to accomplish all of this.

I have never seriously used Chrome (it always felt bloated and restricted to me, but now that Mozilla turned Firefox into another Chrome clone, it doesn't matter anymore), so I'm happy to have you around to help me find the particular extensions. :)

  • Like 1

Chrome has never felt bloated to me - just the opposite actually when compared to Firefox. After re-reading your requirements list, Chrome might work well for you too, depending on extensions.

I'd install Chrome and try searching the Chrome Web Store for Chrome extensions to try and see if they fill your needs.

Well, I think the lack of a really usable extension API is Chrome's (as well as any other browser based upon Chromium) Achilles heel...

While I switched over to Chrome long ago as Mozilla went "speed pacing version numbers" I always kept a "Portable" Firefox install around because the convenience of dta! (downthemall!) and the efficiency of NoScript was/is simply unparalleled on Chrome.

Anyhow ... while the extensions around for Chrome are a lust-lacker in comparison to what you can get for Firefox (oh how that will take a nosedive once Mozilla rids XUL) - the bare minimum that somewhat work for me are ...

- "Ghostery" (also available on Firefox) to keep annoying user-tracking at bay.
- "AdGuard" (browser extension, there's also a version you install as a Windows application that is totally independent of the browser - worth every Cent) to keep the Ads away
- "Nicer Bookmarks" to have a sane Bookmarks/Favorites menu. Doesn't give you separators (you still have to work around with "bogus bookmarks" to shoehorn a separator line in) but the best bookmenu there is (EDIT: totally forgot: Nicer Bookmarks also allows you to open bookmarks inside a Folder at once - closest thing to Firefox's Bookmark Groups you can possibly find /EDIT).
- "Tabs to the Front" to open new tabs "to the front" (and not into the background - the most annoying "feature" of Chrome, if you ask me)

A extension like "No Script" or "dta!" doesn't even exist for Chrome ... but in terms of "No Script" you could use Chrome's built-in JavaScript management system --- disallow by default and whitelist the sites you want running scripts, or blacklist the really bad ones. Same goes for Flash ... either let Ghostery or AdGuard take care of blocking Flash or set Chrome to "Click to Play" in the settings. There's FlashBlock around for Chrome, but that one somehow leaves something to be desired.

As for Firebug: Never tried that one, but Chrome's "Developer Tools" (CTRL+SHIFT+I) is lightyears ahead of Mozilla "DOM Inspector" ... give it a try - for my use cases I found it to be good enough (though YMMV).

That leaves us with the problem of dta!. Up to this day I haven't really found something worthwhile to go with Chrome, hence why I keep a jailed "Portable Firefox" around. There are download managers like EagleGet and Free Download Manager ... but I'm not really impressed by them ... seems dta! + dta! Anti Container is still unparalleled (that's why I agree with you that the demise of dta! with Fx 43.0 will hurt a lot).

Bookmarks sync: Well... isn't ownCloud capable of syncing your bookmarks? Shouldn't be too hard to setup given you have a small home-server around. That being said ... to sync bookmarks I actually use Chrome's built-in sync to sync between Chrome instances across my boxes/OS's and Firefox Sync to keep Firefox synced. Once in a while I simply export my bookmarks from Chrome and import them into Firefox - in case I added new ones or changed something around that's to much of a hassle to edit manually.

Password sync: I switched over to "Enpass Password Manager" (ditched LastPass) and am syncing the vault via a Syncthing shared folder (set Enpass to sync "via Folder" and put the folder exporting the vault to be inside your "intern data" Syncthing share - disable "Relay servers" and "Proxy" in the properties of the share if you don't need to sync with some device outside your LAN).

Anyhow, nice topic you opened up here - let's see if someone found a worthwhile replacement for dta!. ;)

Edited by B.Jay

I already use Adguard, so all I need is a JavaScript compliment. :) About the Bookmarks and Passwords thing: I prefer to have them right accessible in my browser, so I'd need extensions for that. :(

Firebug is rather a "better web development toolbar" than a DOM Inspector replacement. AFAIK it doesn't even support inspecting the browser chrome.

Nothing but a 64-bit Firefox. Makes no sense.

@Boo Berry: Well, last time I checked (for fun), I couldn't find sidebar tabs or KeePass...

Yeah, don't think there's sidebar tabs, but there is KeePass extensions - I currently use this one and it works great!

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ckp-keepass-integration-f/lnfepbjehgokldcaljagbmchhnaaogpc?hl=en-US

Firebug: Like I said, have a look at the "Developer Tools" and see if it cuts your needs. There's even a flag in "chrome://flags" to enable experimental features for the DevTools to ramp the functionality up a bit, though keep "experimental" in mind - may be somewhat buggy. After briefly glancing over the "Firebug" extension page ... I don't think you'll find something like that for Chrome ... the API isn't up for that.

Bookmarks sync: Like I said ... ownCloud (a Raspberry Pi 2 running Raspbian + ownCloud on a somewhat suitably sized SD card would suffice) - there are extensions to sync your bookmarks - or use the built-in sync.

Bookmarks menu: Again ... Nicer Bookmarks is possibly the best option you can find.

Password sync: Either use LastPass (you already use LastPass' Xmarks bookmark sync) or use a locally installed password manager (Enpass, KeyPass, ...) and install the browser extension (Enpass) - or see if KeyPass' auto-fill finally works (never worked for me) - and sync the vault across your devices to keep it in-sync and up-to-date.

As for JavaScript ... there are a few extensions around on Chrome's Web Store, but IMO none of them is really good (or even close to NoScript). I actually resorted to using Chrome's built-in management system as that's about as lacking as the extensions.

But yea, with the upcoming changes to Firefox (digital signing requirement, demise of XUL) an era of highly sophisticated pluggies will actually come to an painful end ... not that I'm really greatly surprised, Mozilla totally lost their minds a long time ago so "royally ret**ded" decisions coming from them don't really surprise me anymore (sorry if that sounds rude, but they really work hard on train-wrecking Firefox).

Another option would be to stick to Palemoon (forget Waterfox ... runs like a dog on everything non-Intel CPU) and "wait and see" how that "sticking to XUL" works out on the long term. If Moonchild is able to pull it off then he's clearly the saviour of a lot of Firefox fans ... if he can't then you at least postponed "Judgement Day" for a while. ;)
 

They do things a bit differently than the regular builds

Waterfox is just optimized differently depending on Intel/AMD processor and supported SSE instruction set. The downside to Waterfox is it isn't updated by MrAlex for every new Firefox release due to whatever reasons (real life? college? Intel compiler issues?!?), which *may* pose a security risk when running an out-of-date Firefox build. When/if it is updated in the future, it follows Mozilla's source code meaning it'll suffer from depreciated XUL too.

If I were to use an 'optimized' Firefox 64-bit Windows build, I'd just use pcxFirefox. Personally, I also avoid Cyberfox too and just use vanilla Firefox 64-bit now on Windows. I don't notice any performance differences on my high-end machine when comparing Firefox 64-bit, pcxFirefox, Waterfox, Pale Moon or Cyberfox with real-world usage.

If you absolutely need XUL with Firefox in the future, Pale Moon is basically your only choice.

I wouldn't call it crap... it's just the lack of updates for whatever reasons (as I said, it seems real life and compiler issues seems to be the main reasons) poses a potential security risk when running older Waterfox builds. It's for that reason alone I don't recommend Waterfox anymore - I don't recommend any third-party Firefox builds, actually.

Though that shouldn't matter as Waterfox isn't a viable alternative for the OP regardless, as it follows Mozilla's code changes and isn't a fork like Pale Moon is now.

palemoon has compatibility issues and the dev is arrogant into making the users push the "choice" thing on devs. Not cool.

 

BTW sec.issues can be solved by installing Common Sense Anti Virus 2016 Enterprise Edition

 

 

I wouldn't call it crap... it's just the lack of updates for whatever reasons (as I said, it seems real life and compiler issues seems to be the main reasons) poses a potential security risk when running older Waterfox builds. It's for that reason alone I don't recommend Waterfox anymore - I don't recommend any third-party Firefox builds, actually.

Though that shouldn't matter as Waterfox isn't a viable alternative for the OP regardless, as it follows Mozilla's code changes and isn't a fork like Pale Moon is now.

I know you didn't say crap... but I did... I have tried it...  I went back to FF..

BTW sec.issues can be solved by installing Common Sense Anti Virus 2016 Enterprise Edition

The typical user usually lacks said common sense. :p

And an antivirus wouldn't really be effective against browser vulnerabilities. ;)

palemoon has compatibility issues and the dev is arrogant into making the users push the "choice" thing on devs. Not cool.

Oh, I agree. Pale Moon really is a complete mess.

I know you didn't say crap... but I did... I have tried it...  I went back to FF..

Haha, I used Waterfox when it started - even helped MrAlex a couple times too. But yeah eventually stopped using it too when I didn't notice any performance differences between Firefox and Waterfox.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • Pretty nice tool, thanks
    • Indeed. But note that this has Wifi7, HDMI 2.1, BlueTooth 5.4, and 5G Ethernet, so even in the additional features list this bundle blows the Steam Machine away. And, with the money saved, one could improve this dramatically.
    • One of the strangest galaxies in our Universe could help answer some long overdue questions by Sayan Sen Image by Pixabay via Pexels | Not representative An international team of astronomers led by the Department of Astronomy at Tsinghua University has discovered an unusually metal-poor galaxy that may contain signs of first-generation star formation. The galaxy, named Metal-Pristine Galaxy COSMOS Redshift 3 (MPG-CR3), or CR3, was identified using observations from the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST), the Very Large Telescope (VLT), and the Subaru Telescope. The findings, published in The Astrophysical Journal Letters, describe CR3 as the most metal-poor galaxy known from the period known as "cosmic noon," around 11.5 billion years ago. Cosmic noon refers to a period when the universe was producing stars at its highest rate and galaxies were growing rapidly. In astronomy, "metals" refers to all elements heavier than helium, including oxygen, carbon, and iron. Because CR3 contains so few of these heavier elements, researchers say it closely resembles what scientists expect the earliest galaxies in the universe may have looked like. The discovery is significant because it could offer clues about Population III (Pop III) stars, the first generation of stars thought to have formed after the Big Bang. These stars are believed to have formed from gas made almost entirely of hydrogen and helium, before heavier elements were created inside stars and spread across the universe through supernova explosions. Hence this is why CR3 has been referred to as a "living fossil." Scientists have long believed that Population III stars existed only in the very early universe. As more generations of stars formed and died, they enriched surrounding gas with heavier elements, making the conditions needed for metal-free star formation increasingly rare. Because of this, researchers expected the formation of such stars to have largely ended after the epoch of reionization, a period when radiation from the first stars and galaxies transformed the neutral hydrogen filling the universe and made it largely transparent to ultraviolet light. CR3 appears to challenge that idea. The galaxy was observed at a redshift of z = 3.193 ± 0.016. Redshift measures how much light from a distant object has been stretched as the universe expands and helps astronomers determine how far back in time they are looking. In this case, the redshift corresponds to roughly 11.5 billion years ago during cosmic noon. Although the universe was already several billion years old by that point, CR3 shows characteristics more commonly associated with much earlier galaxies. Observations revealed exceptionally strong emissions from hydrogen and helium, including Lyα, Hα, and He I λ10830. Lyα, or Lyman-alpha emission, is a specific wavelength of light produced by hydrogen and is widely used to study distant galaxies. Hα emission is another hydrogen signature commonly used to trace active star formation, while He I λ10830 is produced by helium and can indicate the presence of very hot, young stars. The measured equivalent widths of EW₀(Lyα) = 822 ± 101 Å and EW₀(Hα) = 2814 ± 327 Å are among the highest ever observed in star-forming galaxies. Equivalent width is a measure of the strength of an emission line relative to the surrounding light, and such large values are typically associated with intense and very recent star formation. At the same time, researchers found no statistically significant detections of metal emission lines, including [O III] λλ4959, 5007 and C IV λλ1548, 1550. Emission lines act as chemical fingerprints that reveal which elements are present in a galaxy. Oxygen and carbon lines are commonly seen in galaxies that have already undergone significant chemical enrichment. Their absence in CR3 suggests an unusually pristine environment. Using abundance calibration methods developed with JWST observations, the team placed a 2σ upper limit on the galaxy's gas-phase metallicity of 12+log(O/H)<6.52, corresponding to less than 0.7% of the Sun's metallicity (Z < 7 × 10⁻³ Z⊙). Gas-phase metallicity measures the abundance of heavy elements in a galaxy's gas. A 2σ upper limit indicates that the true value is very unlikely to be higher than the quoted threshold. Even when accounting for uncertainties in the calibration methods, the most conservative limit remains 12+log(O/H)<6.95, making CR3 the most metal-poor galaxy identified at cosmic noon. The galaxy also appears to contain very little dust. Researchers measured a Lyα/Hα flux ratio of 13.9 ± 2.5, a result that suggests negligible dust attenuation, meaning very little of the galaxy's light is being absorbed or scattered by cosmic dust. Because dust is usually produced by earlier generations of stars, this finding further supports the idea that CR3 has experienced very little chemical enrichment. Further analysis using spectral energy distribution modelling, a technique that compares observed light with theoretical models, suggests that CR3 contains an extremely young stellar population only around 2 million years old. The modelling, which used Population III stellar templates, also indicates the galaxy has a stellar mass of approximately 6.1 × 10⁵ M⊙. The symbol M⊙ represents one solar mass, or the mass of the Sun. One of the key questions raised by the discovery is how such a chemically primitive galaxy could exist in a universe that had already spent billions of years producing heavier elements. To investigate this, the researchers examined CR3's surroundings. Their analysis suggests the galaxy may lie in a slightly underdense environment, with a density contrast of roughly δ ≈ −0.12. An underdense region contains less matter and fewer galaxies than average. The team suggests that this relative isolation may have helped preserve pockets of pristine gas. Metal-rich material expelled from nearby galaxies may never have reached CR3, while the lower rate of galaxy mergers and interactions could have slowed the mixing of enriched gas into the system. If future observations confirm these findings, CR3 could provide some of the strongest evidence yet that first-generation star formation continued well after the epoch of reionization. Such a result would challenge the conventional view that pristine star formation ended by z ≳ 6 and suggest that small pockets of metal-free gas survived much longer than previously thought. Researchers stress that more observations will be needed to determine the galaxy's true nature. Future spectroscopic studies with higher resolution and better signal quality could help confirm whether CR3 is genuinely hosting Population III star formation. The discovery is also expected to encourage searches for other similar galaxies, which could help astronomers better understand how the first stars formed and how galaxies evolved in the early universe. Source: Tsinghua University, IOPscience This article was generated with some help from AI and reviewed by an editor. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, this material is used for the purpose of news reporting. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
    • "I think in the immediate absence of a partner to apply relief" In the words of Sterling Archer... "Phrasing!"
  • Recent Achievements

    • Dedicated
      HidekoYamamoto94 earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • One Month Later
      timbobit earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • One Month Later
      nates earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Almohandis earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Rookie
      dorf went up a rank
      Rookie
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      454
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      161
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      107
    4. 4
      Michael Scrip
      83
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      70
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!