The Windows Enthusiast vs Everyone else.

[+Warwagon MVC]

A person recently pointed out a word Paul Thurrott used to describe everyone who is loves to run and install the latest and greatest version windows on their machine or on their test machine. They love to install the new build of Windows 10 Anniversary addition (or a new version of Windows) he calls them “Windows Enthusiasts”.

 

Windows Enthusiasts are a good portion of users on this site. So who isn’t a Windows Enthusiast? Everyone else.

 

It’s an important distinction to make. When people say, “People should cash in on the Windows 10 upgrade… It’s Free!!!!!!  it’s much better than windows 7 INSTALL IT!!!!!!!!!! IT'S AWESOME!!!!!!!”.

 

They say this because for them they love to install latest and greatest and want to see everyone do the same. (Sure some people have to install it  because they need to program for or test against it while developing applications)

 

I Personally I have windows 10 running on All but 2 of my 9 machines.

 

Then again, I’m an Enthusiasts, who, because I do computer repair have to be running the latest and greatest so I can help people with their machines.

 

But my mom, my Dad, my sister, my friends and every non Enthusiast I know, really doesn’t care. Now this isn’t to say all of them aren’t going to install windows 10 on purpose or by accident and not love it. Some might some won't.

 

But they might also like what they have and take stability and “it just works” over the latest and greatest.

 

So just remember while you love to dive into the latest and greatest you are the minority.

 

[satysin]

I am a Windows Enthusiast but I only run the insider builds in a VM. I like my main machine to be stable. It is the same reason I run the current channels for Office 365 and Visual Studio

 

I used to have multiple machines but now I just stick with two laptops, one for Windows and one for Linux. I used to prefer my Linux systems over Windows but with Windows 10 and Visual Studio 2015 I find myself using Windows more and more. It is stable, looks pretty good, has lots of nice little window management tweaks and is easy to manage. Then again I mostly use "portable apps" rather than installed versions of the same thing. I love self-contained programs that sit in my C:\bin directory and don't make a mess in AppData, Roaming, Registry, etc. Backing them up, using multiple versions of the same program, etc. is so simple this way. Actually the only programs I have installed are Office, Visual Studio, Chrome and WinRAR  Everything else is in C:\bin nice and tidy. 

 

[+Warwagon MVC]

You have a good point, portable apps are nice.

[adrynalyne]

So what does that make me?

 

I have a laptop on the latest Insider, a workstation with 1511, and a home computer running OS X and who knows what version of 10.

[+Warwagon MVC]

1 minute ago, adrynalyne said:

So what does that make me?

 

I have a laptop on the latest Insider, and workstation with 1511, and a home computer running OS X and who knows what version of 10.

Enthusiast, just for the fact you have any machine running the latest insider build.

 

[adrynalyne]

Just now, warwagon said:

Enthusiast, just for the fact you have any machine running the latest insider build.

 

And if my reasoning is because I am a developer and need to see how my applications work with it? My laptop is strictly for development.

[+Warwagon MVC]

6 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

And if my reasoning is because I am a developer and need to see how my applications work with it? My laptop is strictly for development.

well, the only reason I haven't tried full time Linux, is because I don't think they have a gotoassist client. Though i'm sure I Could run it in a VM.

 

Ok, so there are Enthusiasts (which i'm still going to say are a good protion of the people here)

People who need to run it for testing

People who need to run for other reasons

Everyone else.

[DevTech]

13 minutes ago, warwagon said:

well, the only reason I haven't tried full time Linux, is because I don't think they have a gotoassist client. Though i'm sure I Could run it in a VM.

 

Ok, so there are Enthusiasts (which i'm still going to say are a good protion of the people here)

People who need to run it for testing

People who need to run for other reasons

Everyone else.

Your first post also had a kind of catagory for people who were running Windows but happy with 7 or 8, and found no compelling reason to upgrade to 10. These people would also most likely not object to upgrading to 10 if someone pointed out the free upgrade is about to expire. Not enthusiats at all but they like Windows.

 

Then there are Windows 7 and 8 users who argue passionately for the virtues of 7 or 8 and dislike 10 who are obviously "Windows Enthusiasts"

 

[Draconian Guppy]

46 minutes ago, satysin said:

I am a Windows Enthusiast but I only run the insider builds in a VM. I like my main machine to be stable. It is the same reason I run the current channels for Office 365 and Visual Studio

 

I used to have multiple machines but now I just stick with two laptops, one for Windows and one for Linux. I used to prefer my Linux systems over Windows but with Windows 10 and Visual Studio 2015 I find myself using Windows more and more. It is stable, looks pretty good, has lots of nice little window management tweaks and is easy to manage. Then again I mostly use "portable apps" rather than installed versions of the same thing. I love self-contained programs that sit in my C:\bin directory and don't make a mess in AppData, Roaming, Registry, etc. Backing them up, using multiple versions of the same program, etc. is so simple this way. Actually the only programs I have installed are Office, Visual Studio, Chrome and WinRAR  Everything else is in C:\bin nice and tidy. 

 

Somewhat unrelated. I HATE WITH ALL MY GUTS having to install 10 .net frameworks and 10 c++ redestributable 11.111.111  then 11.111.111.0.1, How hard is it for then to have an incluse package ? 

Mind you I know nothing about frameworks and C++ so be kind

[Stoffel]

I don't get the point of the OP.

[DevTech]

4 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

I don't get the point of the OP.

1. Its in "General Discussion" and so doesn't need a point.

 

2. He is trying to put forward the hypothesis that a website designed for Windows Enthusiasts is actually visited by Windows Enthusiasts and can be proven by looking at anecdotal mentions of installations of pre-release versions of Windows 10 and everyone else running Windows is actually sharing their cat pictures on Facebook instead of visiting Neowin.

 

[LimeMaster]

Just now, DevTech said:

1. Its in "General Discussion" and so doesn't need a point.

 

2. He is trying to put forward the hypothesis that a website designed for Windows Enthusiasts is actually visited by Windows Enthusiasts and can be proven by looking at anecdotal mentions of installations of pre-release versions of Windows 10 and everyone else running Windows is actually sharing their cat pictures on Facebook instead of visiting Neowin.

 

Uh, we here at Neowin do the same as those people on Facebook. The only difference is the OS:  

 

 

[DevTech]

20 minutes ago, Draconian Guppy said:

Somewhat unrelated. I HATE WITH ALL MY GUTS having to install 10 .net frameworks and 10 c++ redestributable 11.111.111  then 11.111.111.0.1, How hard is it for then to have an incluse package ? 

Mind you I know nothing about frameworks and C++ so be kind

The latest .NET Framework is included with Windows 10 and auto updates with Windows Update. Same with C++ redist.

 

It should be this simple:

 

http://getdotnet.azurewebsites.net/

 

Sometimes it becomes this:

 

http://getdotnet.azurewebsites.net/target-dotnet-platforms.html

 

 

It is not Microsoft's fault if developers of software make dependencies on specific versions of either package, but it can easily happen when the pressures of actually shipping software forces a "temporary" version specific code. And then software hits EOL and it's cheaper to include an old redist than update the code. Etc.

 

Your frustration is actually a "Good Thing (TM)" since it is a testament to the richness and diversity and longevity of the Windows Ecosystem. It is mind blowing amazing that all this stuff runs so well on so many computers for so long a time in a fast changing tech world.

 

For .NET, installing 3.5 and 4.6.x covers 99%

 

For C++ redist, the developer is suposed to include it, but the latest security update of the redist for 2008, 2010, 2013 and 2015 covers most of the scenarios.

 

If you actually run into this issue a lot, then you are installing a vast array of software and getting full advantage of the WIndows Ecosystem!

 

(I think people on MDL have some nice bundle packages of all the redist installs if you want to pre-pollute a fresh Windows install with years of accumulated crustyness/garbage on the first day.)

 

For the future, the Windows 10 UWP App deployment has an option to include all the dependencies in the App package much like a "portable" install would work but it remains to be seen if developers will see an advantage to bloating up their code like that.

 

 

 

[+DonC Subscriber²]

I would probably call myself a Windows enthusiast because I'm interested in how it develops. I'm a strong believer in where PowerShell is going. However I haven't run an insider build since Windows 10 was released though.

 

But then I'd also call myself a GNU/Linux enthusiast.

 

This has a tendency to confuse people.

[satysin]

1 hour ago, Draconian Guppy said:

Somewhat unrelated. I HATE WITH ALL MY GUTS having to install 10 .net frameworks and 10 c++ redestributable 11.111.111  then 11.111.111.0.1, How hard is it for then to have an incluse package ? 

Mind you I know nothing about frameworks and C++ so be kind

I don't know anything about the .NET stuff but the C++ redistributables are just one set for each major release of Visual Studio, so you have a 32-bit and 64-bit version for 2012, 2013 and 2015. 

[Cnónna]

2 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

So what does that make me?

 

I have a laptop on the latest Insider, a workstation with 1511, and a home computer running OS X and who knows what version of 10.

a tech slut like everyone on here

[Ian W]

Er, one does not have to install or run the latest build (or operating system) to be a Windows enthusiast.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

55 minutes ago, DevTech said:

For the future, the Windows 10 UWP App deployment has an option to include all the dependencies in the App package much like a "portable" install would work but it remains to be seen if developers will see an advantage to bloating up their code like that.

So...here is a question ... and forgive me if it sounds ignorant.  I'm not a programmer, though I've been working on an Android app for (well it seems) forever.  Aside from this little Android app and some old school HTML...the most I've done is: 
10 Print "Hello"

20 End

 

Anyway, so you pointed out that UWP Apps will include "all" dependencies in the package.  Now, would I be wrong in saying that this could cause increase in program sizes and potentially security concerns?  

 

For example...two separate UWP apps require some .NET 4.6 dependency.  The user has .NET 4.6 installed the "traditional" way.  Now, with the UWP App ... are you saying that in addition to the traditional .NET 4.6 install ... that the UWP will include their own .NET 4.6 dependencies ... instead of utilizing the ones already on the machine...thus increasing some "bloat"?  Couldn't this potentially cause security issues as well?  Say that a severe exploit was discovered in 4.6, Microsoft patches it ... but wouldn't it be up to the individual developer to ensure their UWP Apps gets patched with their own .NET 4.6 dependencies?  So instead of Microsoft patching the exploit rendering your w32 programs "good to go" ... you also have to wait for the developers to release the patch for their Apps ... until then they are vulnerable to whatever .NET exploit was uncovered and already patched by MS?  I understand that UWP is sandboxed ... but just pretend the exploit causes some kind of personal data leakage and not system compromise.  

 

Just curious and sorry if it doesn't make sense.  Just trying to get a better idea of how these included dependencies work from a security + size standpoint.

 

 

Regarding the topic.  I vote@vcfanas the Windows Enthusiast for May 2016.  Got Windows '95 running on an XBox.

 

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

3 hours ago, warwagon said:

I Personally I have windows 10 running on All but 2 of my 9 machines.

Why do you need 9 machines?? I like Windows 10 and have used every release of Windows along with Linux for a tad but 9 Machines,,

[The Evil Overlord]

1 minute ago, Gary7 said:

Why do you need 9 machines?? I like Windows 10 and have used every release of Windows along with Linux for a tad but 9 Machines,,

It's actually very easy to accumulate rigs

I have 5 pc's (8 if you count the ones I salvaged) all in working order, 2 laptops, 6 tablets 4 current gen smartphones, 4 old gen (8 total) 5 consoles....

 

They all add up over the years, and before you know it...............

[Dashel]

If you do break fix you're probably better off running the same old crap they are.  "It just works" isn't a Windows specific phenomena, which really seems to be the core of your argument.  Computing, Windows or not, doesn't stand still.  There are users and then there is everyone else.

[DevTech]

2 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

So...here is a question ... and forgive me if it sounds ignorant.  I'm not a programmer, though I've been working on an Android app for (well it seems) forever.  Aside from this little Android app and some old school HTML...the most I've done is: 
10 Print "Hello"

20 End

 

Anyway, so you pointed out that UWP Apps will include "all" dependencies in the package.  Now, would I be wrong in saying that this could cause increase in program sizes and potentially security concerns?  

 

For example...two separate UWP apps require some .NET 4.6 dependency.  The user has the traditional install of .NET 4.6 which some of their w32 programs use.  Now, with the UWP App ... are you saying that in addition to the traditional .NET 4.6 install ... that the UWP will include their own .NET 4.6 dependencies ... instead of utilizing the ones already on the machine...increasing "bloat"?  Couldn't this potentially cause security issues as well?  Say that a severe exploit was discovered in 4.6, Microsoft patches it ... but wouldn't it be up to the individual developers to ensure their UWP Apps get patched?  I understand that UWP is sandboxed ... but just pretend the exploit causes some kind of personal data leakage and not system compromise.

 

Just curious and sorry if it doesn't make sense.

 

 

Regarding the topic.  I vote@vcfanas the Windows Enthusiast for May 2016.  Got Windows '95 running on an XBox.

 

1. It is optional.

 

2. UWP does not use the standard .NET framework but instead a subset that is part of the UWP programming model partly due to the sandbox, partly due to battery life efficiency and partly due to a "clean break" philosophy that motivated incorporating part of .NET and WPF/XAML into the Windows API. And a new difference is that all Windows 10 UWP programs (I'm not sure about the Javascript ones) go through a backend Visual C++ Native Complier to generate efficient machine code which removes some runtime and reflection capabilities etc.

 

3. If a developer decides to include 3rd party code including Microsoft's into his/her app then the security becomes the developer's responsibility.

 

4. As a minor note, all of the breaches of user data on the internet come from completely brain dead programming on the part of big name corporations that are completely irresponsible. It comes from a silly pre-digital age mindset that views security as a "castle wall" that needs defending. Good security is all about encryption. Let the hackers have your 60 million  user database if they want to waste their time building a Quantum Computer and running it for a million years to break your encryption. This is so basic that I am blown away every time I hear about a massive breach by yet another well known internet site. It just keeps happenning like a sad song in a deadbeat piano bar because the encryption key broke on that piano years ago and they just play their music without it.

 

 

[DevTech]

16 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said:

It's actually very easy to accumulate rigs

I have 5 pc's (8 if you count the ones I salvaged) all in working order, 2 laptops, 6 tablets 4 current gen smartphones, 4 old gen (8 total) 5 consoles....

 

They all add up over the years, and before you know it...............

Also, any "Evil Overlord" needs lots of minions...

 

[The Evil Overlord]

1 minute ago, DevTech said:

Also, any "Evil Overlord" needs lots of minions...

 

I have those too, they soft and cuddly, and plush.....

 

wait what?

 

[adrynalyne]

26 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

Why do you need 9 machines?? I like Windows 10 and have used every release of Windows along with Linux for a tad but 9 Machines,,

I have 5 laptops and 2 desktops.