[Update] Xbox One S performance boost revealed

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

1 hour ago, BajiRav said:

Right from horse's mouth

 

He clearly says you should not buy One S thinking it will run One games faster.

And yet, it does, and it remains to be seen if that's a one off (GoW4), or if every game runs "faster" (and by how much). I told you, I'm not interested in what Phil says, he's not a developer.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

No idea on Microsoft's thinking behind this console.  Released almost three years after the original Xbox One ... less than 16 months before the next-gen Scorpio.  Just don't get it.  4k streaming / HDR / smaller footprint...being the only real benefits...if you have a TV which supports the first two features.  Kinda hope people who currently own the Xbox One don't run out and spend their money on this ... and instead wait for Scorpio ... those gamers will be in for a rude awakening unless they did their research.  Also not sure why Microsoft spent the time and money in developing this very small incremental upgrade.

 

/rant

[+Red King Subscriber²]

15 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

No idea on Microsoft's thinking behind this console.  Released almost three years after the original Xbox One ... less than 16 months before the next-gen Scorpio.  Just don't get it.  4k streaming / HDR / smaller footprint...being the only real benefits...if you have a TV which supports the first two features.  Kinda hope people who currently own the Xbox One don't run out and spend their money on this ... and instead wait for Scorpio ... those gamers will be in for a rude awakening unless they did their research.  Also not sure why Microsoft spent the time and money in developing this very small incremental upgrade.

 

/rant

Well there were iterations of PS2 as well

[George P Global Moderator]

1 hour ago, jjkusaf said:

No idea on Microsoft's thinking behind this console.  Released almost three years after the original Xbox One ... less than 16 months before the next-gen Scorpio.  Just don't get it.  4k streaming / HDR / smaller footprint...being the only real benefits...if you have a TV which supports the first two features.  Kinda hope people who currently own the Xbox One don't run out and spend their money on this ... and instead wait for Scorpio ... those gamers will be in for a rude awakening unless they did their research.  Also not sure why Microsoft spent the time and money in developing this very small incremental upgrade.

 

/rant

To MS it's clear, and it's nothing new to consoles, we always see a revamp/respin/slim/mini or something around 3-4 years for consoles.  In many cases the outside might not change but the insides do, smaller, cheaper etc.   The S is the entry level Xbox for gamers because I have a feeling the Scorpio will cost over $400 when it comes out, but if not that'd be a huge win.   Either way, the S adds support for 4k and HDR, which is a nice bonus on top of the fact it's smaller, uses less power, is no doubt even more quiet but most of all, for MS directly, it's cheaper to make for sure, so they're getting more out of each unit sold compared to the OG XB1.

 

At some point in the future the Scorpio will also get a smaller, lighter, quieter and less power hungry version as well, probably around 2020.

[BajiRav]

1 hour ago, jjkusaf said:

No idea on Microsoft's thinking behind this console.  Released almost three years after the original Xbox One ... less than 16 months before the next-gen Scorpio.  Just don't get it.  4k streaming / HDR / smaller footprint...being the only real benefits...if you have a TV which supports the first two features.  Kinda hope people who currently own the Xbox One don't run out and spend their money on this ... and instead wait for Scorpio ... those gamers will be in for a rude awakening unless they did their research.  Also not sure why Microsoft spent the time and money in developing this very small incremental upgrade.

 

/rant

Xbox 360 went through 4 iterations at least.

- Xbox 360 Launch the

- Xbox 360 Elite (and then core) with HDMI

- Xbox 360 S (updated silicon, faster Xenons due to improved process)

- Xbox 360 E (I think this was the last?)

 

I would say that they did it to

- Reduce size (probably #1 complaint)

- Improved silicon (less heat, smaller)

- 4k UHD with HDR support i.e. HDMI 1.4 spec

 

I read somewhere that both Sony and Microsoft were basically given options by AMD to choose between an improved silicon for their launch APUs at higher cost OR slightly faster APUs at a lower cost. I don't know how much truth is in that claim or what Sony did but looks like Microsoft went for the lower cost option that also helped them reduce size (Phil mentions that in the video).

[BajiRav]

1 hour ago, Andrew said:

And yet, it does, and it remains to be seen if that's a one off (GoW4), or if every game runs "faster" (and by how much). I told you, I'm not interested in what Phil says, he's not a developer.

wow so in 3 years we went from "How can Microsoft executives say XYZ" to "I don't care what Microsoft executives say"!

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

1 hour ago, BajiRav said:

wow so in 3 years we went from "How can Microsoft executives say XYZ" to "I don't care what Microsoft executives say"!

Assuming I ever cared what they said, didn't see through it and didn't get a laugh out of their BS back then too...

[vcfan]

i did a little dx test with hdr render target. in fact, hdr gives worse performance in the pixel shader by about 15%-20% because of the greater color bit depth, therefore what rod said is true, theres a little bit of extra power for increased performance. but what he meant, because gears has an hdr mode, this enables it to be on par performance wise with the non hdr mode, not that the non hdr mode is getting an increase in performance.

[wakjak]

4 hours ago, Andrew said:

We both know we're not going to agree on this. Let's wait for the tests in August to see how "identical" these consoles perform.

 

Meanwhile...

 

1080p Project Scorpio games "will look different" and some "run a little better" than on Xbox One/S

 

Microsoft's mixed messages at E3 aren't pretty for Xbox One owners

 

Clear as day!

This is why I think people, myself included, are going to assume the Scorpio is the next gen Xbox. They've had to clarify that it is backwards compatible with Xbox One. Why say that if it's not a new console?

[Mando]

17 minutes ago, Riva said:

I am not sure how people expected it to deliver 4K without a spec bump. Either way all games are capped to 60FPS on all consoles. The real benefit for both versions of the Xbox One is DirectX 12.

Exactly!  

Video playback and dashboard at native 4k yes, gaming at 4k LOL no just no (upscaled or native currently) heck a 970gtx cant do 4k gaming comfortably, never mind a 300quid console. Dx12 will allow multithreaded processing and as with w10 youll see a nice wee boost anyways to all dx based consoles with varying boost dependant on processor core speeds and number.

 

 

This half measure is clearly another MS "me too" tactic after ps 4.5 news, its the new MS mantra

 

Scorpio will have enough time for amd to provide a single card 4k solution for the mainboard by then at an acceptable bulk price for Sony and MS, it doesnt take rocket science to work it out really

Edited June 16, 2016 by Mando

[BajiRav]

12 minutes ago, Mando said:

Exactly!  

Video playback and dashboard at native 4k yes, gaming at 4k LOL no just no (upscaled or native currently) heck a 970gtx cant do 4k comfortably, never mind a 300quid console. Dx12 will allow multithreaded processing and as with w10 youll see a nice wee boost anyways.

 

 

This half measure is clearly another MS "me too" tactic after ps 4.5 news, its the new MS mantra

 

Scorpio will have enough time for amd to provide a single card 4k solution for the mainboard by then at an acceptable bulk price for Sony and MS, it doesnt take rocket science to work it out really

are you saying they thought of One S only after PS4k leaks?

[Mando]

1 minute ago, BajiRav said:

are you saying they thought of One S only after PS4k leaks?

With their overall performance lately, it wouldnt be a major shock tbh.

[Mando]

5 minutes ago, Riva said:

Its not like the PS4.5 was a secret. The X1S actually was

Maybe to us and MS too 

[George P Global Moderator]

The one thing people wanted was the Xbox One to be smaller and to have the power supply be internal,  MS knew about these things from the start, the S is a natural console evolution, other generations have done it, 360 to 360 S, PS3 to PS3 slim, PS2 and PS1 did it as well.    We were always going to get a smaller Xbox One, it was just a question of when, never if.   The internals can be made smaller, as per the natural evolution of SoCs/Chips etc, and it saves space, needs less cooling and so on.  I bet the cost to make the new Xbox One S is a good chunk lower compared to the original.

 

The Scorpio, and the PS4.5/Neo for that matter, are coming so soon for one reason really, specially in Sony's case, it's for them to jump on the VR bandwagon, if VR wasn't getting this huge media hype boost in gaming then MS and Sony wouldn't bother to release new hardware this soon, maybe in 2018.   It's all thanks to VR, which is why I also don't expect yet another round of new systems soon after, releasing newer consoles, even with full compatibility, faster than 4 years, is going to backfire IMO.   This quick of a release cycle to me might very well be a one off, the R&D and other costs to make these things each time isn't cheap, even when they're using close to stock x86 based SoCs.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

On 16/06/2016 at 2:19 PM, BajiRav said:

Right from horse's mouth

 

 

 

Much better than that click-bait editorial on Eurogamer. He clearly says you should not buy One S thinking it will run One games faster. You are just trying look for a problem that doesn't exist.

Xbox One S performance boost revealed

The new console has a faster GPU and we've benchmarked it.

 

 

 

At the end of the day we're talking about 3FPS increase, which is not something you want to put on the spec sheet for the console. But that 10% increase is not limited to GoW4, it's going to make everything smoother and outperform the OG X1.

[BajiRav]

53 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Xbox One S performance boost revealed

The new console has a faster GPU and we've benchmarked it.

 

 

 

At the end of the day we're talking about 3FPS increase, which is not something you want to put on the spec sheet for the console. But that 10% increase is not limited to GoW4, it's going to make everything smoother and outperform the OG X1.

Not sure why you quoted me? My post still stands. They had already said that there might be some improvement but don't buy thinking it will run games faster than One (which DF's review article today points out).

You should be instead celebrating the most dramatic "improvement" in Xbox One S. Microsoft for the first time in the history of Xbox is using a universal PSU.

About. ########. Time.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Just now, BajiRav said:

Not sure why you quoted me? My post still stands. They had already said that there might be some improvement but don't buy thinking it will run games faster than One (which DF's review article today points out).

You shouldn't buy X1S thinking it will run games faster...only it does. It's just not impressively faster. 30FPS actually means 30FPS, not mid-20s.

 

"I think what Rod was talking about, which is specific to Gears...", (from the horse's mouth) except, it's not specific to Gears as DF discovered.

[+Asmodai MVC]

The subject of this thread should be changed.

There Xbox One S does NOT have additional CPU performance.  The CPU is clocked identically and any game that is CPU limited sees no performance benefit.

The Xbox One S does have a slight GPU boost as a result of a < 10% increase in clock from 853MHz to 914MHz (which also increases the ESRAM bandwidth)

That isn't always enough to even get it to 30fps as Eurogamer shows in their Batman testing:

 

http://images.eurogamer.net/2015/articles//a/1/8/4/7/4/1/0/6.bmp.jpg/EG11/resize/600x-1/quality/90/format/jpg

 

 

 

[George P Global Moderator]

43 minutes ago, Asmodai said:

The subject of this thread should be changed.

There Xbox One S does NOT have additional CPU performance.  The CPU is clocked identically and any game that is CPU limited sees no performance benefit.

The Xbox One S does have a slight GPU boost as a result of a < 10% increase in clock from 853MHz to 914MHz (which also increases the ESRAM bandwidth)

That isn't always enough to even get it to 30fps as Eurogamer shows in their Batman testing:

 

http://images.eurogamer.net/2015/articles//a/1/8/4/7/4/1/0/6.bmp.jpg/EG11/resize/600x-1/quality/90/format/jpg

 

 

 

No, this thread should just be done with, there's nothing left to talk about, the difference is minor and more of a GPU boost to help support HDR, it doesn't matter if some games run "smoother" it's not enough of a boost to make a difference at all.  Some people like to keep beating this dead horse, but as far as I'm concerned it's a non-topic.    DFs tests mean jack, minor 1-3fps differences in a game is hardly anything to write home about, and it fits with what Phil said, don't expect the S to run your games better, now if some want to keep arguing over semantics or whatever, then I can't say anything other than you're wasting your time.

[+Asmodai MVC]

56 minutes ago, George P said:

No, this thread should just be done with, there's nothing left to talk about, the difference is minor and more of a GPU boost to help support HDR, it doesn't matter if some games run "smoother" it's not enough of a boost to make a difference at all.  Some people like to keep beating this dead horse, but as far as I'm concerned it's a non-topic.    DFs tests mean jack, minor 1-3fps differences in a game is hardly anything to write home about, and it fits with what Phil said, don't expect the S to run your games better, now if some want to keep arguing over semantics or whatever, then I can't say anything other than you're wasting your time.

I don't really care to discuss the topic either and agree with you 100%, the issue is that it was brought back to the top of the forum (not counting pinned posts) and the subject makes a false statement.  If you want to just delete the thread when you say "this thread should just be done with" or if you can somehow move it down, preferably off the first page that's great but if it's going to sit there up front to anyone visiting the forum then I just think the subject should be adjusted to not make an incorrect statement.  Anyway, just my $0.02.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Topics will die off on their own eventually. This one hasn't broken any rules and seeing as the console is now released with benchmarks, it's only natural for it to resurface. We also have a rule which states the OP article must be used in titles. However, we can update OP with another to reflect the test results.

 

As for the news itself, 10% is enough to gain anywhere between 3 and 9 FPS in some games. Quite a lot if your game dips to low numbers on OG X1. Certainly a bigger gap than the 360S had over the OG 360.