Java or php?

[Angel78]

I'm planning to learn either java or php. Which language do you think will give better employment opportunity? 

[Above The Gods]

I would recommend you look into a newer language and framework like fullstack Javascript (Node.js, angular.js/react.js), Ruby (rails), Python (Django), etc. I personally recommend node.js; It's in crazy hot demand in places like NYC and the SF bay area. You can learn the entire stack following this link. These languages are what's used in startups.

 

Java is still taught at schools in India because it provides big companies a way to import cheap developers on H-1B visas. However, if you want to become an android developer, than it's the language of choice. Nonetheless, good luck.

 

EDIT: I meant to quote the OP.

[+Fahim S. MVC]

  On 26/07/2016 at 04:49, adrynalyne said:

Source ? No data I have seen out there supports what you are saying. You are quite one of the only people in this thread saying that except @Danielx64 <snip>

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There are certainly sources that say otherwise. In terms of commits on GitHub and questions on StackOverflow, Java is still the 2nd most used language after JavaScript.  See the report here - for the record PHP is 3rd.

[Above The Gods]

  On 26/07/2016 at 07:28, Fahim S. said:

There are certainly sources that say otherwise. In terms of commits on GitHub and questions on StackOverflow, Java is still the 2nd most used language after JavaScript.  See the report here - for the record PHP is 3rd.

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Java is taught at schools around the world and is used by 90% of fortune 500 enterprises, a large portion of that is to maintain legacy applications. However, in the startup world, Java is behind Python, Ruby, and node.js. It's only used if the startup is an android shop.

http://codingvc.com/which-technologies-do-startups-use-an-exploration-of-angellist-data

Edited July 26, 2016 by Above The Gods

[adrynalyne]

  On 26/07/2016 at 12:00, Above The Gods said:

Java is taught at schools around the world and is used by 90% of fortune 500 enterprises, a large portion of that is to maintain legacy applications. However, in the startup world, Java is behind Python, Ruby, and node.js. It's only used if the startup is an android shop.

http://codingvc.com/which-technologies-do-startups-use-an-exploration-of-angellist-data

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Key word startups. I much rather work for a Fortune 500 company with job security than a business that may fail within the next year or two. 

 

From your own admission, wealthy companies are using Java and that is a good reason to learn it. 

[Above The Gods]

  On 26/07/2016 at 13:11, adrynalyne said:

Key word startups. I much rather work for a Fortune 500 company with job security than a business that may fail within the next year or two. 

 

From your own admission, wealthy companies are using Java and that is a good reason to learn it. 

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Job security has nothing to do with the software world. You can leave one job and find another in a week. In the corporate world, however, they treat developers no different than accountants. At a startup, an individual can have immediate impact.

[adrynalyne]

  On 26/07/2016 at 17:58, Above The Gods said:

Job security has nothing to do with the software world. You can leave one job and find another in a week. In the corporate world, however, they treat developers no different than accountants. At a startup, an individual can have immediate impact.

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Way to stay positive

 

[Anibal P]

  On 26/07/2016 at 04:41, Above The Gods said:

Java is on it's way out, at least on the web. It's used simply to maintain legacy websites. New sites aren't built on JSP. I personally would never recommend a new developer to go down the path of Java, nor PHP for that matter, if he wants to be ahead of the curve. 

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But you'd be wrong, it all depends on the site and what's needed for the backend, restricting yourself to one technology will be your eventual demise, you need to build what the customer needs, not what you think they want 

[DevTech]

The subjectivity is a crazy levels in this thread. It reads like the Spring Fashion News from Paris.

 

X is too old, you will be seen as a neolithic tribesman if you use X, time to go with the new trendy hip Y. No! More people still use X. Use Z because it combines OOPs and DysFunctional! The cool people use Y and if you use Y you can always get a job at least for 3 months until everyone switches to the new W. But look at this link showing pretty graphs that "Accountants in Estonia who Change Careers to Programming" tend to use Z much more than X.

 

Also, Pirates will always use R.

 

https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/features/rtvs-vs.aspx

 

[DevTech]

  On 24/07/2016 at 02:22, th3rEsa said:

I rewrote one of my PHP sites in C yesterday. Lovely. Simply lovely.

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Given all the Contradictory Conflicting Confounding Criteria posted in this thread, languages with a single letter simplifies the discussion.

 

Websites done in C & R will conform, although using R & B will be smoother.

 

[th3rEsa]

There is a new language called B?

[DevTech]

  On 26/07/2016 at 19:01, th3rEsa said:

There is a new language called B?

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Just need to wait a week or two and it will pop up on GitHub.

 

Or we could make one...

 

-------

 

The B Language Formal Specification by Killigan & Rachet

 

Intro

 

B is a reduced syntax lightweight subset of C similar to Go or Rust but with modern Hipster Fashion considerations as the primary driving force so that more than 10 people on the planet will use it.

 

B incorporates every possible Hipster buzzword including the new DysFunctional style along with  built-in automatic recursive Garbage Detection known as OOPS so that everything will be familiar, simple and intuitive.

 

B strikes the right aesthetic balance between actually having something to do with programming and sucking up to all the wonderful San Francisco VC's on Hacker News that understand the important programming language trends without ever programming themselves. To make sure they all jump on board as soon as possible, a fundamental foundation stone of the B language is Node.js

 

Every function in B known as a Bunction, invokes an efficient cached instance of Node.js deployed in a Docker swarm via Mesos to the B-Hip cloud service so that battery life on the Mac Air in the San Francisco Starbucks is not affected.

 

A special Monadic language primitive named B-ONE-Head permits automatic visual graph dashboard displays demonstrating in real-time how B produces the maximum number of Node.js instances per language primitive in case any VCs or even Angel Investors are nearby in your Starbucks.

 

 

Syntax Specification

 

All language elements concisely represent the maximum Node.js mappings so that text area space on your tiny Mac Air is conserved.

 

Let A Bunction <B> (((=> ||))) is a simple and obviously intuitive example of an immutable type that scaffolds a cloud cluster of Node.js servers delivering IOS apps that show a Google Map with all nearby VCs.

 

 

Implementation Details

 

Now that Samsung has purchased Node.js, step 1 is to make a very public Fork of the Node.js codebase to garner VC attention around B-Buzz.

 

The various details are left as an exercise for the reader

 

 

 

 

[th3rEsa]

Ewwwww.

[Doli]

  On 26/07/2016 at 19:51, DevTech said:

Just need to wait a week or two and it will pop up on GitHub.

 

Or we could make one...

 

-------

 

The B Language Formal Specification by Killigan & Rachet

 

Intro

 

B is a reduced syntax lightweight subset of C similar to Go or Rust but with modern Hipster Fashion considerations as the primary driving force so that more than 10 people on the planet will use it.

 

B incorporates every possible Hipster buzzword including the new DysFunctional style along with  built-in automatic recursive Garbage Detection known as OOPS so that everything will be familiar, simple and intuitive.

 

B strikes the right aesthetic balance between actually having something to do with programming and sucking up to all the wonderful San Francisco VC's on Hacker News that understand the important programming language trends without ever programming themselves. To make sure they all jump on board as soon as possible, a fundamental foundation stone of the B language is Node.js

 

Every function in B known as a Bunction, invokes an efficient cached instance of Node.js deployed in a Docker swarm via Mesos to the B-Hip cloud service so that battery life on the Mac Air in the San Francisco Starbucks is not affected.

 

A special Monadic language primitive named B-ONE-Head permits automatic visual graph dashboard displays demonstrating in real-time how B produces the maximum number of Node.js instances per language primitive in case any VCs or even Angel Investors are nearby in your Starbucks.

 

 

Syntax Specification

 

All language elements concisely represent the maximum Node.js mappings so that text area space on your tiny Mac Air is conserved.

 

Let A Bunction <B> (((=> ||))) is a simple and obviously intuitive example of an immutable type that scaffolds a cloud cluster of Node.js servers delivering IOS apps that show a Google Map with all nearby VCs.

 

 

Implementation Details

 

Now that Samsung has purchased Node.js, step 1 is to make a very public Fork of the Node.js codebase to garner VC attention around B-Buzz.

 

The various details are left as an exercise for the reader

 

 

 

 

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It should restrict all variables, class and Bunction's names to emojis

[DevTech]

  On 26/07/2016 at 20:22, Doli said:

It should restrict all variables, class and Bunction's names to emojis

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Awesome! You are more in tune with the hipster programming vibe.

 

B-emojis take the advanced concepts of B to the mobile generation so that Bunction Factories can simply create complex Cloud based intelligent Big Data Cluster Arrays of Node.js distributed via Modern Web Standards of simple user friendly intuitive Gulp layers of Vagrant orchestrated Docker npm delivered Node.js control nodes all simply wrapped via B-emoji Bunctions sitting in a simple finger friendly B-emoji circular ring matrix as programmed by a series of TXT messages distilled to the exquisite essence of Bunctionality in B-emojiis.

 

TXT msg programming B-emojis while updating Facebook status after dumping your SO via TXT is a new Hip-Heaven for Millennials.

 

[Andre S. Veteran]

  On 26/07/2016 at 12:00, Above The Gods said:

Java is taught at schools around the world and is used by 90% of fortune 500 enterprises, a large portion of that is to maintain legacy applications. However, in the startup world, Java is behind Python, Ruby, and node.js. It's only used if the startup is an android shop.

http://codingvc.com/which-technologies-do-startups-use-an-exploration-of-angellist-data

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It's still in the top 4 according to that list; it sounds pretty absurd as a requirement to be in the current top 3 otherwise you're "on your way out". Node.js is still very new; let's see how it holds up 5, 10 years from now. Java has been there for 20 now.

 

I'm also not sure how do you figure Java "is only used if the startup is android shop". Searching that data set, if I combine Java and Android I get 482 companies; Java alone I get 4731*. That's 9 out of 10 startups using Java that don't do Android.

 

*links don't seem to work well. For Java+Android I searched for Java as tech and filtered by keyword on "Android". Searching for Java + Android as techs adds results from both rather than filter. For Java I just searched for Java as tech.

[th3rEsa]

Rich companies (e. g. financial institutions) use Fortran and COBOL a lot. 

[DevTech]

  On 27/07/2016 at 00:32, Andre S. said:

It's still in the top 4 according to that list; it sounds pretty absurd as a requirement to be in the current top 3 otherwise you're "on your way out". Node.js is still very new; let's see how it holds up 5, 10 years from now. Java has been there for 20 now.

 

I'm also not sure how do you figure Java "is only used if the startup is android shop". Searching that data set, if I combine Java and Android I get 482 companies; Java alone I get 4731*. That's 9 out of 10 startups using Java that don't do Android.

 

*links don't seem to work well. For Java+Android I searched for Java as tech and filtered by keyword on "Android". Searching for Java + Android as techs adds results from both rather than filter. For Java I just searched for Java as tech.

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In the beginning.... there were programmers... This long forgotten species can be identified by the percentage of Silicon in their bloodstream. Without the blood test,one looks for precision, logic, scientific thinking, testing a concept before accepting it, examination of real data etc

 

But the world desired a flood of normal humans who could become an army of interchangeable widgets with minds that were open to be controlled by all the mechanisms of modern society such as trends, sense of popularity, keen awareness of fashion, social transmission of "facts" and "data" as "everybody knows", rapid adoption of methodologies and workflows via internet memes, firm belief that actual facts just get in the way of the "new right way to do X"

 

The Continental Divide...

 

[Above The Gods]

  On 27/07/2016 at 00:32, Andre S. said:

It's still in the top 4 according to that list; it sounds pretty absurd as a requirement to be in the current top 3 otherwise you're "on your way out". Node.js is still very new; let's see how it holds up 5, 10 years from now. Java has been there for 20 now.

 

I'm also not sure how do you figure Java "is only used if the startup is android shop". Searching that data set, if I combine Java and Android I get 482 companies; Java alone I get 4731*. That's 9 out of 10 startups using Java that don't do Android.

 

*links don't seem to work well. For Java+Android I searched for Java as tech and filtered by keyword on "Android". Searching for Java + Android as techs adds results from both rather than filter. For Java I just searched for Java as tech.

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Java/JSEE was once #1 in the world for early tech startups, now it's #4 and falling. It is on it's way out other than at large enterprises to maintain legacy software (alongside oracle database which is still #1 in the world. Would you recommend the OP start with oracle too?). Simpy look at the type of job posting for Node.js, Python, ROR, MongoDB, etc, vs Java. If the OP wants to specifically target enterprises, then Java is good to go. The same is true with C if he wants to target the embedded market or R for statistical analysis. But in the more general case, I wouldn't recommend Java.

[Above The Gods]

Great new video for anyone looking to get into web dev: HERE

[Farchord]

I'm a .NET guy.

 

*waits for the pitchforks*

[th3rEsa]

BURN HIM! BURN HIM WITH, ehm, FIRE!

[BarneyJ]

PHP. Java is a bit hard for me)

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

If I were a young person, say 21 or 22, I'd not go straight to Java at this point. I'd start with some of the other languages mentioned (JavaScript, Ruby, Python). Even though I'm a C# guy by profession, I would never say, "don't learn Java." Java is a tool like any other language that has many very valid use cases. My concern with Java is its future.  Oracle seems bent on killing Java.

 

Once again, since I think the (tech) world is not going to look anything like it does now in 10 years, if I were a younger man, this is what I would be focusing on.  That said, between a hard choice of Java or PHP, I'll go for Java first 100% of the time. Once I get a bit comfortable then throw in some PHP on the side. 

[DevTech]

  On 27/07/2016 at 01:18, Above The Gods said:

Java/JSEE was once #1 in the world for early tech startups, now it's #4 and falling. It is on it's way out other than at large enterprises to maintain legacy software (alongside oracle database which is still #1 in the world. Would you recommend the OP start with oracle too?). Simpy look at the type of job posting for Node.js, Python, ROR, MongoDB, etc, vs Java. If the OP wants to specifically target enterprises, then Java is good to go. The same is true with C if he wants to target the embedded market or R for statistical analysis. But in the more general case, I wouldn't recommend Java.

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If there is such a thing as a social group of mono-culture behavior known as "startups" then they could have lunch together at Google or something but nobody here or there or anywhere cares what "startups" are doing when deciding on a technology choice.

 

And if wanted to consider the absurd hypothesis for a second, 99% of all startups FAIL so obviously this bunch of yahoos do not know how to pick technology.

 

So for someone starting out, do they pick FAIL or do they look at the thousands of established companies that will be around in 10 years and still using Java...

 

"Startups" do this. "Startups" do that. It would make equal sense to say "Hedgehogs" do this. "Warthogs" do that. There is no decision of any sort in any area of technology or otherwise that can possibly benefit from considering what some aggregated statistic of the untested (by definition)  behavior of a new enterprise might be doing. Since the startup will most likely fail, it might be possible to form a theory that it makes sense to do the opposite of whatever startups are doing but even there I suspect any possible useful information is below the noise level.

 

 

[Above The Gods]

  On 22/09/2016 at 14:21, DevTech said:

If there is such a thing as a social group of mono-culture behavior known as "startups" then they could have lunch together at Google or something but nobody here or there or anywhere cares what "startups" are doing when deciding on a technology choice.

 

And if wanted to consider the absurd hypothesis for a second, 99% of all startups FAIL so obviously this bunch of yahoos do not know how to pick technology.

 

So for someone starting out, do they pick FAIL or do they look at the thousands of established companies that will be around in 10 years and still using Java...

 

"Startups" do this. "Startups" do that. It would make equal sense to say "Hedgehogs" do this. "Warthogs" do that. There is no decision of any sort in any area of technology or otherwise that can possibly benefit from considering what some aggregated statistic of the untested (by definition)  behavior of a new enterprise might be doing. Since the startup will most likely fail, it might be possible to form a theory that it makes sense to do the opposite of whatever startups are doing but even there I suspect any possible useful information is below the noise level.

 

 

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Startups aren't failing because of the underlying technologies they use. The fail rate would be the same had they used Java regardless. Also, I don't know why you said "nobody... cares what 'startups' are doing"; how would you know that? Perhaps you don't care. It is the startup culture which specifically utilizes the newest technologies, newer approaches, and are constantly seeking improvement. Netflix, Uber, PayPal, LinkedIn, etc, all switched to Node.Js. Why don't they use Java and Oracle DB? If the OP wants to work for the government or a subway system, then he should use technologies from the previous millennium. If not, then it simply wouldn't make sense when better tech stacks are available.