why are gamers clueless about mid update on current gen?

[ACTIONpack]

Xbox One and PS4 are getting a slight bump on current gen with the Xbox One S and PS4 Neo. More so with Neo. Consoles has always gone with this style of refresh. Why do gamers feel cheated out with this update than in Xbox 360S/E and PS3 slim?

 

 

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

This is the first mid-cycle update that actually increases the console performance. It is not the same situation as the Slim 360, PS3, or consoles which came before.

[wakjak]

1 hour ago, ACTIONpack said:

Xbox One and PS4 are getting a slight bump on current gen with the Xbox One S and PS4 Neo. More so with Neo. Consoles has always gone with this style of refresh. Why do gamers feel cheated out with this update than in Xbox 360S/E and PS3 slim?

 

 

Technically the One S isn't a bump, it's just like the 360 slim. Scorpio  will be the increase, but doesn't release til Holiday 2017. Neo we don't know when it's coming out, but if it's close to the Scorpio release, then it may as well just be called the next gen*. 

*I know it's not next gen and will play current gen games.

[xendrome]

5 minutes ago, wakjak said:

Technically the One S isn't a bump, it's just like the 360 slim. Scorpio  will be the increase, but doesn't release til Holiday 2017. Neo we don't know when it's coming out, but if it's close to the Scorpio release, then it may as well just be called the next gen*. 

*I know it's not next gen and will play current gen games.

Technically it is a bump - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-xbox-one-s-has-a-gpu-overclock-and-we-have-benchmarked-it

[wakjak]

3 minutes ago, xendrome said:

Technically it is a bump - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-xbox-one-s-has-a-gpu-overclock-and-we-have-benchmarked-it

I wouldn't necessarily call a tiny overclock much of a bump, still going to run the same games, just at better framerate finally. With Neo there will be games with noticeably better quality/framerate with Neo/Non-neo versions of games.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

The difference is older games on the newer console can perform better on the newer console.

When the Xbox360 was going through it's revisions, they had a faster cpu and had to lock / down clock the cpu to match the previous versions of the console to make the performance nearly identical. 

 

Console revisions are typically not popular. Some examples:

Xbox360 getting the HDMI connector after the fact.

The PS3 removing the PS2 hardware in later revisions.

Neither made older games magically run better.

 

Think of it this way, you buy the brand new 2015 Brand X car as soon as it hits the lots.

3 months later, the same base model gets some cool upgrades. You would feel a bit of burn.

 

Sony and Microsoft are headed into uncharted territory with dramatic hardware upgrades for the "same" generation console.

They have to find a balance between time of hardware refreshes and cost of the console. 

 

A lot of people still see a gaming console a "console", not a computer.

Part of the reason the backlash about Microsoft original plan to use steam software model. 

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Eternal Tempest

[eddman]

2 hours ago, ACTIONpack said:

Xbox One and PS4 are getting a slight bump on current gen with the Xbox One S and PS4 Neo. More so with Neo. Consoles has always gone with this style of refresh. Why do gamers feel cheated out with this update than in Xbox 360S/E and PS3 slim?

 

 

Because this is the first time ever, AFAIK, that a refresh is faster than the original. Even though the performance increase is quite small, some people are obviously not going to be happy with the fact that their original X1 is slower.

 

P.S. It seems you're confusing X1 S with the upcoming Scorpio, which is going to compete with Neo.

 

40 minutes ago, Eternal Tempest said:

When the Xbox360 was going through it's revisions, they had a faster cpu and had to lock / down clock the cpu to match the previous versions of the console to make the performance nearly identical. 

All x360 revisions had the EXACT same CPU and GPU blocks in their chips, with exactly the same specs and clock speeds. There was no down-clocking.

 

The main issue came up when they went with a single chip design for the X360 S, instead of the usual two chip design for the preceding 360s. That move unintentionally caused the latency between CPU and GPU to drop, because now they were on the same chip and next to each other, instead of being in different chips on different parts of the motherboard. This would have increased the performance by a very small amount.

 

To counter this and to keep the performance the same, they artificially increased the latency on the new chip on purpose. That was the only difference between 1 chip and 2 chip x360s. Performance remained exactly the same.

 

EDIT: I found the article. The "FSB Replacement" block, which didn't exist on older 360s, adds that artificial latency. All the other blocks are the same as the old ones.

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/08/microsoft-beats-intel-amd-to-market-with-cpugpu-combo-chip/

Edited August 6, 2016 by eddman

[Vandalsquad]

It's a non topic, a 3 FPS increase isn't worth noticing or talking about compared to past upgrades. Way bigger slaps in the mouth where the PS3 with PS2 hardware removal and 360 missing HDMI on first release as posted above.

[Mr. Gibs]

5 hours ago, ACTIONpack said:

Xbox One and PS4 are getting a slight bump on current gen with the Xbox One S and PS4 Neo. More so with Neo. Consoles has always gone with this style of refresh. Why do gamers feel cheated out with this update than in Xbox 360S/E and PS3 slim?

 

 

Because people feel cheated everytime something new comes along that is better (even if its only marginally so) than their current device.

 

The Xbox One came out November 2013, almost 3 years ago. Now we have a new xbox that is only marginally better, with a more powerful one coming next year so a 4 year refresh cycle. It'll still play the same games, run the same apps, but nooo gamers got to complain about absolutely everything.

 

I remember when the xbox one S was announced at E3 there were a bunch of people on this forum (and others) complaining that they just bought a new xbox and now MS announces a new one. Who's fault is that? It's been known for months and months that MS and Sony were going to announce new consoles at E3...why wouldn't you wait?

 

I seriously don't know why people want a 7 year refresh cycle between consoles. The amount of technological improvements that happen between year 1 and year 7 is significant. I mean think of how games changed between 2005 (release date of Xbox 360 and PS3) and 2013 (release date of Xbox one and ps4), especially in the graphics arena. In 2005 1080P TVs were just starting to come out. We're now on 4K and none of the current consoles (Xbox One, Xbox One S, PS4) can handle 4K gaming at all, and hell at times they struggle with 1080 content as well. Its very likely that by 2020 we'll have a new standard that is better than 4K. 

 

When its all said and done, gamers are the biggest bunch of whiners and complainers ever. Doesn't matter what Microsoft, Sony, EA, Activision, Blizzard, etc etc etc do, there will be a huge chunk of them that have nothing better to do than complain about how company X is destroying everything and gaming is ruined and the world is going to come to an end. (and yes I am well aware of the irony of me complaining about gamers complaining hahaha). 

Edited August 7, 2016 by -Razorfold

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

On 8/7/2016 at 1:27 AM, -Razorfold said:

Because people feel cheated everytime something new comes along that is better (even if its only marginally so) than their current device.

 

The Xbox One came out November 2013, almost 3 years ago. Now we have a new xbox that is only marginally better, with a more powerful one coming next year so a 4 year refresh cycle. It'll still play the same games, run the same apps, but nooo gamers got to complain about absolutely everything.

 

I remember when the xbox one S was announced at E3 there were a bunch of people on this forum (and others) complaining that they just bought a new xbox and now MS announces a new one. Who's fault is that? It's been known for months and months that MS and Sony were going to announce new consoles at E3...why wouldn't you wait?

 

I seriously don't know why people want a 7 year refresh cycle between consoles. The amount of technological improvements that happen between year 1 and year 7 is significant. I mean think of how games changed between 2005 (release date of Xbox 360 and PS3) and 2013 (release date of Xbox one and ps4), especially in the graphics arena. In 2005 1080P TVs were just starting to come out. We're now on 4K and none of the current consoles (Xbox One, Xbox One S, PS4) can handle 4K gaming at all, and hell at times they struggle with 1080 content as well. Its very likely that by 2020 we'll have a new standard that is better than 4K. 

 

When its all said and done, gamers are the biggest bunch of whiners and complainers ever. Doesn't matter what Microsoft, Sony, EA, Activision, Blizzard, etc etc etc do, there will be a huge chunk of them that have nothing better to do than complain about how company X is destroying everything and gaming is ruined and the world is going to come to an end. (and yes I am well aware of the irony of me complaining about gamers complaining hahaha). 

You forgot Ubisoft/Warner Brothers... as the both of them do actually ruin gaming  

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

On 07/08/2016 at 1:27 AM, -Razorfold said:

I remember when the xbox one S was announced at E3 there were a bunch of people on this forum (and others) complaining that they just bought a new xbox and now MS announces a new one. Who's fault is that? It's been known for months and months that MS and Sony were going to announce new consoles at E3...why wouldn't you wait?

It wasn't known, it was rumoured. Only as we reached June did leaks hit the internet with info about MS' E3 presentation did we know some detail. Prior to that, Phil Spencer had denied the claims in the months before.

 

Sony too did not comment on Neo's existance until the Friday before E3, and only then it was to tell gamers not to expect any news / announcement of it at E3.

[madd-hatter]

On 8/6/2016 at 2:48 PM, ACTIONpack said:

Consoles has always gone with this style of refresh. Why do gamers feel cheated out with this update than in Xbox 360S/E and PS3 slim?

I like how you say that gamers are clueless but you don't know what you are talking about.

 

On 8/6/2016 at 8:27 PM, -Razorfold said:

When its all said and done, gamers are the biggest bunch of whiners and complainers ever.

The gaming demographic will always be made up of a large amount of youth; teenagers and 20-somethings. Many teenagers and 20-somethings are filled with criticism and quick judgement and are very vocal about it on various online forums. There are many gamers with more respectable opinions that aren't as vocal about their opinions, they are simply enjoying their preferred titles.

 

 

Some of you guys should look to improve your cognitive and writing skills. Too much analysis of popular opinion followed by thinking those popular opinions represent everyone involved with the topic.

It is simply not the case.

[ACTIONpack]

16 minutes ago, madd-hatter said:

I like how you say that gamers are clueless but you don't know what you are talking about.

 

What am I clueless about? Why the blanket statement without any backing?

[madd-hatter]

24 minutes ago, ACTIONpack said:

What am I clueless about? Why the blanket statement without any backing?

The area of your original statement that I quoted and the other responses within this thread should make it apparent.

[Circaflex]

43 minutes ago, ACTIONpack said:

What am I clueless about? Why the blanket statement without any backing?

That's ironic, your thread title has a blanket statement in it.

[ACTIONpack]

Just now, Circaflex said:

That's ironic, your thread title has a blanket statement in it.

 

My statement was addressing the internet all these gamers that are up in arms about this version of Xbox. The Xbox 360 Slim didn't get this backlash.

[xendrome]

2 minutes ago, ACTIONpack said:

My statement was addressing the internet all these gamers that are up in arms about this version of Xbox. The Xbox 360 Slim didn't get this backlash.

Exactly a blanket statement.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

For what it's worth, I'm paying this "update" the exact same amount of interest as I treated the slim models. If my console breaks and I need a replacement, I'll look in to the Neo. Otherwise, I don't see the point, I'm happy with things as they are at the moment.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

40 minutes ago, ACTIONpack said:

My statement was addressing the internet all these gamers that are up in arms about this version of Xbox. The Xbox 360 Slim didn't get this backlash.

Nobody feels cheated about the X1S.

 

All of the people you are referring to as "clueless" are discussing the Xbox One 'Scorpio' and PS4 Neo. They are not "slim" versions of the console; they are major upgrades to the current hardware.

[dragontology]

As a PC gamer, I find it absolutely absurd that an Xbox One doesn't play Xbox and Xbox 360 games, and that a PlayStation 4 doesn't play PS1, PS2, and PS3 games. I understand why they don't; my issue is with the fact that profit is a large factor. I bought a PS3 instead of a PS4 because it has a bigger library (and I got a great deal). Of course, I've been saying this since the Super NES came out.

 

I agree that the Xbox One S is the same, more or less, as the Xbox 360 S. It's just a smaller version. Oh, and it does 4K too, but if you can afford a 4K TV, you won't get any sympathy from me about "having to" buy a new Xbox One three years after the last one. I know it's a fallacy, but it's once I choose to cling to. When you buy a console, you buy the unit for what it can do at the time. There's no contract, real or imagined, that the company won't make a better one in three years. Hell, it's no better for PC gamers. I spent ~$300 on a graphics card, only to be told six months later it was on the "not good enough" side for Steam VR. Oops? Nah, not really. It happens. And I don't really care about VR, I'm just unhappy that, to get VR, in addition to what I already paid, I would have to pay even more for better parts.

[The Evil Overlord]

ohh, the fun we could have if we could build a console the way we could build a pc.......

[Crisp]

On 17/08/2016 at 4:56 AM, The Evil Overlord said:

ohh, the fun we could have if we could build a console the way we could build a pc.......

Why would you want to lower yourself to that kind of level. PC would still be better.

[T3X4S]

Why am I clueless about everything ?
 

[MorganX]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:19 PM, wakjak said:

I wouldn't necessarily call a tiny overclock much of a bump, still going to run the same games, just at better framerate finally. With Neo there will be games with noticeably better quality/framerate with Neo/Non-neo versions of games.

The overall experience is noticeably better. The UI, streaming from USB, DLNA, many apps not just games. I'm with you though, it's not a major performance bump, and the level of performance improvement the S provides should have been there from the get go.

 

However, getting 4K and HDR and getting the Power Supply internal is a worthy mid-life update, especially with the $150 trade-in that went on for a month and the pretty reasonable cost for new users. XBox One, w 4K/HDR streaming and UHD Bluray for $299 ...

 

As for Scorpio, let's face it, it's going to be a few more years before a console can truly straight up play any games other than Othello at 4k resolution. Most PCs cannot, not without high-end SLI and a high end processor. If it does, it's going to cost close to $1000, the GPU alone will need to have $600 GPU capability. I haven't followed what Sony is promising with Neo, but I will most likely always go with Xbox One for Xlive and the controller. The PlayStation controller to me is the worst thing ever for American hands. But some seem to love it. That's why choice is good.

11 minutes ago, Crisp said:

Why would you want to lower yourself to that kind of level. PC would still be better.

PC is better, but still a bull in a china shop in the living room. That's why Xbox Play Anywhere appeals to me. I can get all the high-end graphics when I play solo on the PC, and have the game on the console when outside of the cave. Having X1 peripherals become ubiquitous on the PC is also a great idea.

[DavidM]

7 minutes ago, T3X4S said:

Why am I clueless about everything ?
 

I'm guessing it because you have died, see it says right there DECEASED!