is java programming recommended these days?

[ultimate99]

I've been reading about the vulnerabilities and security issues associated with java. Is programming in java (and to start learning java development) still hot these days or should I look into other languages?

[Grinch]

Java is a perfectly valid language to learn. Along with being able to run on most platforms (Windows, Linux, macOS) you'll also find that the syntax is very similar to C# which is another good language to delve in to.

[DevTech]

You could review the comments in this thread:

 

The short answer is that Java is still in huge demand and it depends a lot on the type of programming you want to do

 

For Web Server Programming, the usage order of web sites is

 

1. PHP

2. C# (ASP.NET)

3. Java

4. Ruby

5. Javascript (Node.js) - probably lower than #5 by trending upwards quickly

 

For Web Client Programming, Javascript and Typescript are the main ones but Transpiling almost any programming language to Javascript is becoming curiously popular

 

For Android Programming, Java is the default language with Javascript and C# being the main alternatives

 

For IOS Programming, Objective-C, Swift, Javascript and C#

 

For Windows Programming, C# and C++ (Javascript is promoted by Microsoft but almost no uptake outside of Microsoft)

 

For Game Programming, C++, C# and Javascript

 

For Embedded Programming, C, C++, C#, Javascript, Java

 

For Big  Data and Scientific Programming:

 

1. Python

2. C++

3. R

4. Java and Scala

5. C# and F#

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ultimate99]

  On 04/09/2016 at 00:07, DevTech said:

You could review the comments in this thread:

 

The short answer is that Java is still in huge demand and it depends a lot on the type of programming you want to do

 

For Web Server Programming, the usage order of web sites is

 

1. PHP

2. C# (ASP.NET)

3. Java

4. Ruby

5. Javascript (Node.js) - probably lower than #5 by trending upwards quickly

 

For Web Client Programming, Javascript and Typescript are the main ones but Transpiling almost any programming language to Javascript is becoming curiously popular

 

For Android Programming, Java is the default language with Javascript and C# being the main alternatives

 

For IOS Programming, Objective-C, Swift, Javascript and C#

 

For Windows Programming, C# and C++ (Javascript is promoted by Microsoft but almost no uptake outside of Microsoft)

 

For Game Programming, C++, C# and Javascript

 

For Embedded Programming, C, C++, C#, Javascript, Java

 

For Big  Data and Scientific Programming:

 

1. Python

2. C++

3. R

4. Java and Scala

5. C# and F#

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks. 

I think I'll go with C# for now...

[Gone]

Does a bear ###### in multi-platform woods?

[DevTech]

  On 07/09/2016 at 00:45, ultimate99 said:

Thanks. 

I think I'll go with C# for now...

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C# is traditionally associated with Windows programming and Neowin being well Neowin, there are quite a few C# programmers here than can help with questions I would guess.

 

But also C# is one of three languages that runs just about everywhere so that means it doesn't limitwhat you can do with it. Most of the devices that run C# will also take any other .NET language for interop of which F# is notable.

 

The three (IMO):

 

1. C#

2. C++

3. Javascript

 

All three of these languages will run on:

 

1. Windows Desktop

 

C# - WPF

C++ - MFC

Javascript - Electron

 

2. Universal  Windows Platform (UWP) - Windows 10 Desktop, Windows 10 Mobile, Windows 10 Tablets, Windows IOT (Raspberry Pi), Windows Holographic, Xbox One

 

C# - Native on all

C++ - Native on Desktop, not sure on rest

Javascript - Native on desktop and Mobile, not sure on rest

 

3. Android

 

C# - Xamarin runtime

C++ - Native for OpenGL

Javascript - Package up via Cordova etc

 

(Java is Native)

 

4. Apple IOS

 

c# - Xamarin comiles to Native

C++ - via Objective C++

Javascript - Package up via Cordova etc

 

(Objective-C and Swift is Native)

 

4. Linux Desktop

 

C# - Mono - XWT

C++ - Native

Javascript - Electron

 

5. Apple MacOS (OSX)

 

C# - Mono - XWT

C++ - Native

Javascript - Electron

 

6. Web Server programming

 

C# - .NET CORE is Native to Windows Server, Linux

C++ - not common

Javascript - via Node.js which is Native on Windows Server and Linux

 

7. Web Client Programming (i.e. inside a Browser)

 

C# - via various Transpilers - not common

C++ - via Emscripten - not common  - http://kripken.github.io/emscripten-site/

Javascript - Native

 

 

 

[DevTech]

  On 07/09/2016 at 00:57, SpeedyTheSnail said:

Does a bear ###### in multi-platform woods?

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Tried for a few minutes but cannot figure out

 

1. what a Bear symbolizes

2. what [redacted] activity he/she is doing in woods

3. what type of "platform" can be found in a wood and how multiple types of that item would affect the outcome of the [redacted] activity.

 

Perhaps you have quoted from this book:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

 

[Gone]

  On 07/09/2016 at 01:18, DevTech said:

Tried for a few minutes but cannot figure out

 

1. what a Bear symbolizes

2. what [redacted] activity he/she is doing in woods

3. what type of "platform" can be found in a wood and how multiple types of that item would affect the outcome of the [redacted] activity.

 

Perhaps you have quoted from this book:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript

 

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You made my day 

[Andre S. Veteran]

It's certainly not "hot" - it's one of the most boring technologies out there. Is it bad? No. Will you find a well-paying job? Yes. But if you're looking for something exciting you might want to look elsewhere. I would also attempt to nudge you towards .NET instead - of course on a Windows-centric forum you shouldn't find this too surprising - , but with .NET going full crossplatform and being basically re-invented before our eyes with .NET Core these are quite interesting times.

 

As for objective evidence I can provide that on stackoverflow's latest developer survey, both C# and F# figure on the top 10 most loved technologies, and Java isn't there. Swift's euphoric rating is interesting; it probably reflects the state of shock in which poor iOS developers must be at using something modern and relatively well-designed.

[ultimate99]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:08, Andre S. said:

It's certainly not "hot" - it's one of the most boring technologies out there. Is it bad? No. Will you find a well-paying job? Yes. But if you're looking for something exciting you might want to look elsewhere. I would also attempt to nudge you towards .NET instead - of course on a Windows-centric forum you shouldn't find this too surprising - , but with .NET going full crossplatform and being basically re-invented before our eyes with .NET Core these are quite interesting times.

 

As for objective evidence I can provide that on stackoverflow's latest developer survey, both C# and F# figure on the top 10 most loved technologies, and Java isn't there. Swift's euphoric rating is interesting; it probably reflects the state of shock in which poor iOS developers must be still are at using something modern and relatively well-designed.

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Thanks. I guess I'll have to run my windows vm as I use macOS almost all the time...

[Andre S. Veteran]

Actually you can use MacOS, you can get started here: https://code.visualstudio.com/download

 

Keep in mind the tooling and environment is all very new and work-in-progress, although it did reach RTM in terms of stability and support. Using Visual Studio Community on the traditional .NET Framework, on Windows, is still the most friction-free experience, and probably most tutorials out there assume you're using that. I would give VS Code a shot though, it looks very nice from what I've seen.

[DevTech]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:13, ultimate99 said:

Thanks. I guess I'll have to run my windows vm as I use macOS almost all the time...

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To play with C# as a language, you just need to install .NET Core:

 

https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#macos

 

To develop for many of the platform/device targets that C# enables such as UWP, you would need a VM

 

(although an ideal setup would be to install Windows 10 Pro version native on the hardware so you get the super-efficient Hyper-V and then run Windows and MacOS in Hyper-V VMs...)

 

 

[sc302 Veteran]

honestly, html 5 is the way to go

 

 

java's days are numbered.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/oracle-kills-java-browser-plugin/

 

[Andre S. Veteran]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:23, sc302 said:

honestly, html 5 is the way to go

 

java's days are numbered.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/oracle-kills-java-browser-plugin/

 

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Do you seriously think Java is still essentially just used for website applets? It's huge both on mobile and server and it's not going anywhere. Browser plugins have been dead for a long time, yes, but that doesn't change Java's current position at all.

[DevTech]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:23, sc302 said:

honestly, html 5 is the way to go

 

 

java's days are numbered.

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/oracle-kills-java-browser-plugin/

 

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One day the closest star to Planet Earth will burn out and humans will need to build better fires.

 

So, Solar Energy's days are numbered, but investing in Solar Energy is still a good strategy.

 

Java and the JVM ecosystem are not even close to diminishing, quite the opposite actually. Some of the main components of BigData such as Haddop, Spark etc are Java and Scala based and learning those technologies provides employment with incomes around double the average rate - that's the numbers of Java!

 

Proposing Javascript as the recommended language to learn has the disadvantage of a very crowded marketplace where the millions of PHP web developers are automatic Javascript Jockies on their resumes.

 

But it is on my list of 3 "universal" languages that can run on a wide variety of device/platform targets, although the only target where it runs "almost decent" is a PC Desktop.

 

[sc302 Veteran]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:28, Andre S. said:

Do you seriously think Java is still essentially just used for website applets? It's huge both on mobile and server and it's not going anywhere. Browser plugins have been dead for a long time, yes, but that doesn't change Java's current position at all.

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java or java script?  java is dead or will die because oracle is no longer going to release updates or security patches for java, java script will live on...the two are not one in the same. 

 

http://java.com/en/download/faq/java_javascript.xml

 

 

if there are no more patches, would it be wise to continue to invest in this technology...it is like investing in windows xp. sure plenty of people and services still use it, but do you really want to invest your time into it?

[adrynalyne]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:48, sc302 said:

java or java script?  java is dead or will die because oracle is no longer going to release updates or security patches for java, java script will live on...the two are not one in the same. 

 

http://java.com/en/download/faq/java_javascript.xml

 

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He meant Java. Do you have a source that Oracle is no longer releasing updates or security patches? Ive never heard that. 

 

 

[Doli]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:48, sc302 said:

java or java script?  java is dead, java script will live on...the two are not one in the same.

 

http://java.com/en/download/faq/java_javascript.xml

 

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Nowhere in @Andre S.post did he bring up javascript. Where is your proof that Java is dead, your post was about Java browser plugins only. Java is still in demand, not dead.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Doli

[sc302 Veteran]

in the article I posted:

 

  Quote

 

With or without support, it’s likely that the Java browser plugin will live on in corporate environments. Many custom-built applications used by businesses and government still depend on the plugin to function, and can’t be easily replaced. Oracle’s announcement means people at those companies will need to keep the plugin around, without the security of software patches.

 

 

 

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looks like they don't plan on patching it after its final release next year.  what that means for mobile apps, I am not certain..but dying on the pc and mac os platforms I dont think is a good sign.

[DevTech]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:53, adrynalyne said:

He meant Java. Do you have a source that Oracle is no longer releasing updates or security patches? Ive never heard that. 

 

 

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  On 07/09/2016 at 02:54, Doli said:

Nowhere in @Andre S.post did he bring up javascript. Where is your proof that Java is dead, your post was about Java browser plugins only.

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I have trouble imagining that sc302 doesn't know who Andre is and that Andre would know the difference betweeen Java and Javascript so maybe he's just having some fun with us.

 

It just wouldn't matter at this point if Oracle dropped all support for Java. It is Open Sourced anyways and the installed base is just too huge. Really Huge. All of the monster Big Data number crunching all of the Mega-Corps on Planet Earth use to figure out what all of us will be buying next year is run on the JVM. It is around just about forever at this point.

 

 

 

[Andre S. Veteran]

  On 07/09/2016 at 02:48, sc302 said:

Oracle is no longer going to release updates or security patches for java

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You are confusing the Java browser plug-in with Java as a whole. Yes, the browser plug-in dies, like Silverlight and Flash and every other one. Yet Java lives on as strong as ever on mobile and server, Java 9 is on target for a 2017 release and Java 10 already planned after that, and new languages are even flourishing on the JVM like Scala and Clojure. It's a complicated technology stack. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/index.html

[adrynalyne]

  On 07/09/2016 at 03:00, sc302 said:

in the article I posted:

 

looks like they don't plan on patching it after its final release next year.

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Java plugins are just for the browser. It is used in many more common instances. Java is rarely used client side in the browser these days. 

 

Ive seen no evidence that Oracle is tanking the entire language and framework. 

[Eric Veteran]

.NET Core is a pretty good step in cross-platform C#. The next release of it is supposed to support MSBuild and apps without the "dotnet" runtime.

[DevTech]

  On 07/09/2016 at 03:00, sc302 said:

in the article I posted:

 

looks like they don't plan on patching it after its final release next year.  what that means for mobile apps, I am not certain..but dying on the pc and mac os platforms I dont think is a good sign.

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  On 07/09/2016 at 03:02, Andre S. said:

You are confusing the Java browser plug-in with Java as a whole. Yes, the browser plug-in dies, like Silverlight and Flash and every other one. Yet Java lives on as strong as ever on mobile and server, Java 9 is on target for a 2017 release and Java 10 already planned after that, and new languages are even flourishing on the JVM like Scala and Clojure. It's a complicated technology stack. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/tech/index.html

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  On 07/09/2016 at 03:03, adrynalyne said:

Java plugins are just for the browser. It is used in many more common instances. Java is rarely used client side in the browser these days. 

 

Ive seen no evidence that Oracle is tanking the entire language and framework. 

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I think sc302 just had one of those mental glitches we all have from time to time and mixed up the plug-in with the language.

 

Not that I am enthusiastic about promoting Java, it is a solid development language that tends to provide high-value employment and will just increase over time. We can essentially include the major JVM languages in this forecast, primarily when I think of Java these days it is Scala/Java.

 

http://twitter.github.io/effectivescala/

 

"Scala is one of the main application programming languages used at Twitter. Much of our infrastructure is written in Scala"

 

[sc302 Veteran]

I won't argue here...not my forte. 

[adrynalyne]

  On 07/09/2016 at 03:18, sc302 said:

I won't argue here...not my forte. 

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There was no argument because there was nothing to argue. We were just letting you know