Recommended Posts

Hello folks!

 

The specifications of my 'jinxed' HP AIO desktop have been listed here:-

 

https://support.hp.com/in-en/document/c03977251

 

RAM-Upgrade to 8GB haven't helped in my case & the overall experience with this machine continue to remain 'jittery' thus far!

 

So finally....is it possible to trash the default motherboard & replace it some 'Powerhouse' kind of configuration?

 

Are the Motherboard Upgrades feasible at first place? My local technician claim otherwise!?

 

Inputs will be sincerely appreciated.

 

Thank you. 

The motherboard inside will be bespoke, you won't be able to fit a new off the shelf motherboard inside that.

 

Any sort of standard off the shelf motherboard you can buy would be too big: VIA_Mini-ITX_Form_Factor_Comparison.jpg

If you can replace the hard drive with an SSD you might notice an improvement then, however the processor in that is not very good: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+E1-1500+APU which is probably the main issue if you already have 8gb of ram.

There is nothing you can do with that board. It is proprietary and specific to that model PC. Everything about it -- from the port types and locations, to the board shape and mounting holes -- are unique. If you are running Windows, you would also need to buy a new license if you changed to a different motherboard. And there are other reasons you can't/shouldn't do that as well. But those are enough.

1 hour ago, saurabhdua said:

Hello folks!

 

The specifications of my 'jinxed' HP AIO desktop have been listed here:-

 

https://support.hp.com/in-en/document/c03977251

 

RAM-Upgrade to 8GB haven't helped in my case & the overall experience with this machine continue to remain 'jittery' thus far!

 

So finally....is it possible to trash the default motherboard & replace it some 'Powerhouse' kind of configuration?

 

Are the Motherboard Upgrades feasible at first place? My local technician claim otherwise!?

 

Inputs will be sincerely appreciated.

 

Thank you. 

Nope.

 

sell it and buy a standard desktop/laptop is your only course of action.

  • Like 2

Yes of course you can do this!

 

But all the other advice is probably more correct for most people!

 

It all depends on how "handy" you are and how much fun you get out of this sort of thing and how much "down time" you can tolerate while working out really knotty problems.

 

I've done this. It's fun. It's not for everyone.

 

An AIO is just a computer. There is a limit to how weird they can get because the manufacturer saves money by staying within the PC spectrum.

 

So, you have two major approaches:

 

A) Change the mobo

 

B) Bypass the mobo and buy a case/PSU/Mobo/etc in some small (or large) form factor and then adapt and extend all the cables.

 

Don't worry about Windows

 

Your Windows license will be valid as a legal thing since you are throwing away the old stuff and keeping from your point of view the same computer. It is just a big upgrade! From a practical perspective of license management the OEM license is theoretically tied to the motherboard but that is just the activation system and not actually the legality of it. If you copy down your license key you can use it for a Windows 10 activation if the computer was previously still running Windows 8. If you did the W10 upgrade on the old mobo then keep all receipts for the new mobo and use the chat help to Windows support inside Windows 10 after you install it and be prepared to send a digital image of the receipt. Will all work out fine.

 

A) Change the Mobo

 

This is challenging and nothing will match up

 

1. Use the photo InsaneNutter provided in a previous post to select a size smaller than the current one. Buy a powerful mobo and CPU in that form factor

 

2. Plan out which cables need to be adapted into different connectors

 

3. You will probably need a dremel tool or hacksaw to cut a large hole in the AIO rear case to permit larger height.

 

4. You might need to bu a mini-power supply to get the right connector and probably much more wattage to accommodate your "Pocket Rocket" which with a cable extension could sit as a "power brick" on the desk.

 

5. Mounting holes will not match up and now we are in "real handyman" territory to figure out how to attach the mobo. Careful examination is need to make sure there is no metallic contact with any part of the frame. Thin plywood can sometimes help, along with craft store plastic, hot glue, epoxy and duct tape! If you have access to a 3D printer the new mounting can look very professional. Whatever scheme you devise, make sure you can easily unscrew the mobo for maintenance and diagnostics.

 

Before you start: In any case, try a new Samsung 850 SSD to see if that is enough of a help before embarking on the project!

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, DevTech said:

 

Don't worry about Windows

 

Your Windows license will be valid as a legal thing since you are throwing away the old stuff and keeping from your point of view the same computer. It is just a big upgrade! From a practical perspective of license management the OEM license is theoretically tied to the motherboard but that is just the activation system and not actually the legality of it. If you copy down your license key you can use it for a Windows 10 activation if the computer was previously still running Windows 8. If you did the W10 upgrade on the old mobo then keep all receipts for the new mobo and use the chat help to Windows support inside Windows 10 after you install it and be prepared to send a digital image of the receipt. Will all work out fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Technically, that's a way of cheating... OEM is tied to your board. If that board dies, you are out of luck.

1 minute ago, Mindovermaster said:

Technically, that's a way of cheating... OEM is tied to your board. If that board dies, you are out of luck.

The purpose of the OEM license is to tie it to a specific computer and the motherboard just happens to be a convenient technology to do that.

 

If the motherboard fails and is replaced the activation will be lost. If the original motherboard is not available, then a replacement motherboard is required. If the user wants to upgrade his computer, Microsoft has ALWAYS supported that concept. He will have ZERO problem phone activating his upgrade because he is fully within the intent of this system as opposed to the "letter of the law"

 

1 minute ago, DevTech said:

The purpose of the OEM license is to tie it to a specific computer and the motherboard just happens to be a convenient technology to do that.

 

If the motherboard fails and is replaced the activation will be lost. If the original motherboard is not available, then a replacement motherboard is required. If the user wants to upgrade his computer, Microsoft has ALWAYS supported that concept. He will have ZERO problem phone activating his upgrade because he is fully within the intent of this system as opposed to the "letter of the law"

 

If it is the same board, it is possible, yes. But OEM's aren't transferable like retail licenses are.

The current motherboard listed in your system is 159mm x 180mm.  Unfortunately you couldn't put a mini-ITX in there (170mm x 170mm)...which leaves either a nano-ITX or pico-ITX motherboard for you to rig up ... both of which I fear are going to bit underwhelming (if not expensive or not worth it).  However, if you have ample room within the back shroud ... maybe you could squeeze a slim mini-ITX in there...like this ...  but you'll have to break out the tape measure since one side will be 11mm longer or wider than the original motherboard (which I seriously doubt will be doable).

 

You could strap a raspberry pi onto the back and call it a day.  :)

 

 

Just now, Mindovermaster said:

If it is the same board, it is possible, yes. But OEM's aren't transferable like retail licenses are.

 "If that board dies, you are out of luck" - simply incorrect but that is in fact a common myth! Microsoft absolutely does not want to see that happen!

 

In the case of an upgrade, that also has always been an approved path, Forget about the motherboard, you are looking at it too technical. It is a computer "BOX" and the license is for the BOX (abstractly) so as long as a single user is still using the single same BOX, there is nothing being transferred.

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, CrashGordon said:

Like folks have mentioned in some of your other threads about this machine. Just get a better one if possible. Sell the current one after you get new one to recover some costs.

Yes, soldered low end AMD CPU with 2 slots of Laptop RAM on a non-standard mobo is impossible to upgrade other than SSD.

 

Replacing mobo is fun project I have "outlined" but the old saying "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it" translates to "if you have to ask what to do, you probably can't do it"

 

Note to OP: Dell makes a fantastic AIO with hi-res 27" touch screen and the Microsoft Surface AIO with the cute "Dial" is darned attractive as well.

 

15 minutes ago, DevTech said:

 "If that board dies, you are out of luck" - simply incorrect but that is in fact a common myth! Microsoft absolutely does not want to see that happen!

 

In the case of an upgrade, that also has always been an approved path, Forget about the motherboard, you are looking at it too technical. It is a computer "BOX" and the license is for the BOX (abstractly) so as long as a single user is still using the single same BOX, there is nothing being transferred.

 

 

 

And you think MS isn't technical? You read their terms of license? It's there for a reason. What you are doing is called cutting the corners. The "BOX" you discribe is called the motherboard. An OEM can not be transferred from board to board. If you think this is untrue, give me a link.

3 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

And you think MS isn't technical? You read their terms of license? It's there for a reason. What you are doing is called cutting the corners. The "BOX" you discribe is called the motherboard. An OEM can not be transferred from board to board. If you think this is untrue, give me a link.

I know this to be true from personal experience of hours talking to Microsoft reps on support lines. The key differentiator is the "intent" of changing the motherboard. You may be correct in your legal interpretation of just the fine print that lawyers cook up to protect their rear ends and deal with cases of serious abuse, but what Microsoft wants to see happen in most cases is crystal clear:

 

If you are building a NEW computer then you need a NEW license. If you are upgrading an existing computer then you don't. That is what Microsoft in the form of support people that control activation want to see happen. A happy customer who has the right to upgrade their computer continuing to be happy using Windows. (when you  think about it, anything else would be absurd customer support and business practice which would possibly produce an opening for the customer to consider another operating system) 

 

But I don't have any problem with you providing extra revenue to Microsoft in terms of helping them out with additional unnecessary purchases. In theory all money enters the economy and does something useful to mankind!

 

12 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I know this to be true from personal experience of hours talking to Microsoft reps on support lines. The key differentiator is the "intent" of changing the motherboard. You may be correct in your legal interpretation of just the fine print that lawyers cook up to protect their rear ends and deal with cases of serious abuse, but what Microsoft wants to see happen in most cases is crystal clear:

 

If you are building a NEW computer then you need a NEW license. If you are upgrading an existing computer then you don't. That is what Microsoft in the form of support people that control activation want to see happen. A happy customer who has the right to upgrade their computer continuing to be happy using Windows. (when you  think about it, anything else would be absurd customer support and business practice which would possibly produce an opening for the customer to consider another operating system) 

 

But I don't have any problem with you providing extra revenue to Microsoft in terms of helping them out with additional unnecessary purchases. In theory all money enters the economy and does something useful to mankind!

 

See my OS on the left? Since 7 years ago, when I turned to Linux, I don't give a **** about MS. This is from what I KNOW. I went to school for this. I was using Windows at the time.

 

What you know always isn't the truth.

Just now, Mindovermaster said:

See my OS on the left? Since 7 years ago, when I turned to Linux, I don't give a **** about MS. This is from what I KNOW. I went to school for this. I was using Windows at the time.

 

What you know always isn't the truth.

Your reply is a bit hard to understand.

 

If it is a question of promoting Linux, then finding every edge case possible to suggest a switch to Linux might be an appropriate strategy. I think Linux desktop usage might be in a path to surpass Mac OS although both are tiny. Choice is always good.

 

Either way, we should start a new discussion thread for your interesting topic since this is a hardware forum "how to" thread for the OP to fix his HP AIO.

 

  • Like 2
2 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Your reply is a bit hard to understand.

 

If it is a question of promoting Linux, then finding every edge case possible to suggest a switch to Linux might be an appropriate strategy. I think Linux desktop usage might be in a path to surpass Mac OS although both are tiny. Choice is always good.

 

Either way, we should start a new discussion thread for your interesting topic since this is a hardware forum "how to" thread for the OP to fix his HP AIO.

 

Whatrever. I'm done here...

  • Dislike 1
2 hours ago, Jim K said:

The current motherboard listed in your system is 159mm x 180mm.  Unfortunately you couldn't put a mini-ITX in there (170mm x 170mm)...which leaves either a nano-ITX or pico-ITX motherboard for you to rig up ... both of which I fear are going to bit underwhelming (if not expensive or not worth it).  However, if you have ample room within the back shroud ... maybe you could squeeze a slim mini-ITX in there...like this ...  but you'll have to break out the tape measure since one side will be 11mm longer or wider than the original motherboard (which I seriously doubt will be doable).

 

You could strap a raspberry pi onto the back and call it a day.  :)

 

 

I'd say that taking some big cable ties and strapping your suggested board to the back would yield the kick in the pants his computer needs!

 

H110 chipset will allow 2 16 gig RAM modules for 32 GIG RAM and a i7 6700 for some decent CPU experience! The i7 also gives a workable GPU...

 

And super bonus is a M.2 slot for a Samsung 960 EVO...

 

Talk about a night and day upgrade!

 

image.thumb.png.0475980ec96d91cd7108837b2243801f.png

9 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

Technically, that's a way of cheating... OEM is tied to your board. If that board dies, you are out of luck.

while you are correct, Microsoft will happily reset the activation limits on OEMs COAs if you replace a motherboard due to hardware failure, when the same board cannot be sourced, they will ask you, how many machines is this COA used on, when you reply 1, they will reset the limit without question, infact both the automated and verbal reset will be processed and the new activation code will be divulged to you there and then.

 

It even gives you that option if you use the automated phone system with an OEM COA, so while you are technically correct, so is Devtech with his answer. Ive done it on XP OEM COAS and windows 7 OEM COAS over the last decade without a single refusal.

 

I have had to do this on lots of Dell OEM COAS professionally, where companys use the oems instead of VLK licences.

  • Like 2
11 hours ago, DevTech said:

Before you start: In any case, try a new Samsung 850 SSD to see if that is enough of a help before embarking on the project!

Well...Thank you very much for the all effort you have put it at that post. You think an Upgrade to 850 SSD will somehow compensate for extremely meek Processor performance ? If yes, by how much? Will the Benchmark results shoot up by 100 or something?

Edited by saurabhdua
On 9/11/2017 at 2:39 PM, ShadeOfBlue said:

It is proprietary and specific to that model PC

Are the Branded AIOs suppose to be like that? Isn't this a rigged configuration or a kind of unofficial/unethical variant doing rounds under the cloak of HP? 

10 hours ago, CrashGordon said:

Sell the current one after you get new one to recover some costs.

Are you aware of any official 'Exchange schemes' relevant to HP variants from the Company side? Its a 3-year old Model. Can I "Upgrade" via exchange through their official outlets/franchisee?

Just now, saurabhdua said:

Are you aware of any official 'Exchange schemes' relevant to HP variants from the Company side? Its a 3-year old Model. Can I "Upgrade" via exchange through their official outlets/franchisee?

I think you live in an alternate reality universe.

 

Customer support like that sailed away 20 years ago...

16 minutes ago, saurabhdua said:

Are the Branded AIOs suppose to be like that? Isn't this a rigged configuration or a kind of unofficial/unethical variant doing rounds under the cloak of HP? 

Desktop computers have standards they conform to for physical layouts which is why power supplies and peripherals all fit in standard cases.

 

Laptops have no such standards as they innovate every year to cram more stuff into smaller form factors.

 

AIO computers are more like laptops and in fact tend to use laptop CPU's and laptop RAM etc to make a thinner form factor that can endure more heat in a compact enclosure, but the parts cost more and nothing is standard at the motherboard level. Nothing odd at all about HP's design. Part of the problem is that you bought a low end piece of junk. 

 

If you had bought the 27" Dell AIO that year, it would have A) not been a total crappy slug and B) been expandable - to get that you pay more money. Simple economics. There is a reason that lots of people spend lots of money on a computer so they don't have to live with the frustration you are experiencing.

 

 

30 minutes ago, saurabhdua said:

Well...Thank you very much for the all effort you have put it at that post. You think an Upgrade to 850 SSD will somehow compensate for extremely meek Processor performance ? If yes, by how much? Will the Benchmark results shoot up by 100 or something?

A SSD is the easiest performance upgrade to make. If it doesn't help, it is not lost money since you can use it in the next computer you buy.

 

In your case it is the only performance upgrade that is easy and available. 

 

The Disk is 1/4 of the performance quad. ---> CPU - RAM - GPU - Disk

 

Any software that is 100% bottle-necked on any of the other 3 areas will not benefit from a SSD.

 

Most people are impressed with the upgrade since things load faster, update faster etc but if the CPU is 100% of the problem, then you won't see much benefit.

 

Run the Windows 10 Performance Monitor and see where the slowdown is...

 

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • Yup, that's a doozy right there 😄
    • It's a bundle of tools created by a variety of people, so things can go wrong sometimes. It's a great addition to Windows, and I use a lot of the tools on a daily basis. Also, it's still a 0.**** release so quick updates are to be expected 😉
    • Oh, I did. And it's even worse than I was hoping! Besides a lot of techno-babble jargon (yes I understand 100% of it but it's still all just techno-babble) there's 2 key points that make me super-weary about even considering testing this out. -- By default, after installation, a relay is automatically set up, so you do not need to care about that. * Non-chatmail apps use email servers as a long-term message archive while chatmail clients use email servers for ephemeral instant message relay. * Supporting the full variety of classic email setups would require considerable development and maintenance efforts, and complicate making chatmail-based messaging more resilient, reliable and fast. -- Basically, the end-user device is the 'server' (relay) so there is NO ARCHIVING whatsoever because every message is necessarily ephemeral. Great for techno-paranoia (and for illicit activities preferring no tracks to cover) but terrible for everybody else. It's also ironically contradictory to engineering principles of redundancies besides the transport layers due to the explicit absence of any persistent storage. Instead of 'classic email address' retaining multi-GB messaging archives on its server, now every device must retain 100% of those storage demands. (Email messages were originally meant to be short correspondences, not the multi-MB attachments boondoggle that now exists with unlimited spam engines flooding every potential recipient.) Any device swap or reset (or loss) makes the entire message history go bye-bye forever... lest there's an off-device auto-archival "relay" mechanism that's really a separate server that holds onto all transported messages (an email server) that utilizes 'chatmail email address' identities (like an email server) and its own persistent storage archive (like an email server). But... this solution is hoping to exist alongside real-world email address identities (based on the email server relay pathway) but simply render messages in chat thread format in an ephemeral manner (with contents being encrypted, and messages auto-expiring) ... In the end, it's a chat app/experience for the Web3/P2P-at-all-costs zealots. (I have accts on all sorts of federated web3 services so I understand the technical and non-technical alike.) For any practical users, however, it's just another service to download/install, register, cross-share id cards/qr codes, but know that there's no history/archive whatsoever (by design) so no account/message recovery whatsoever... update the device, install a bummed update patch, or dare upgrade your device... all history, poof, gone. Ya gotta start everything over again like they're a brand new person.
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG by Paul Hill Over the last decade, it has become quite trendy to dump Google Search in favor of privacy-preserving alternatives such as DuckDuckGo, Startpage, and Brave Search. These search engines have done a very good job at highlighting dodgy practices by Google, such as adjusting search results based on what it thinks you’ll like (filter bubble) and stalking you around the web to advertise to you. While these search engines are good starting points when compared to non-private services like Google, there are still quite a few issues with them. For example, both DuckDuckGo and Brave Search require running non-free JavaScript in your web browser, which is comparable to running proprietary software on your computer, meaning you can be sure about what it’s actually doing in the background. Another issue is that these search engines are hosted on the respective companies’ servers, and you are using a service that you don’t control. Finally, DuckDuckGo, while offering privacy features, relies heavily on Microsoft’s infrastructure for its results and, in the past, has permitted Microsoft tracking scripts. If you are looking for a more private search solution than DuckDuckGo, Brave Search, and Startpage, then I recommend taking a look at SearXNG. It is a privacy-respecting metasearch engine that can be used via different public instances, which is useful for mobile users, or you can install it on your computer or server and run it locally with maximum control. Unlike Google, Bing, or Brave Search, which crawl the web and have their own search indexes, SearXNG is a metasearch engine, meaning it taps other search engines, stripping your identifying data, such as IP address, user agent, and cookies, in the process. Your search query is sent to the other search engines you enable before aggregating the results. SearXNG has deployment flexibility. If you are a casual user or a mobile user and don’t want to run SearXNG locally, you can use a public instance that is hosted by someone else. The main problem with this is that you are putting trust in the maintainer of the instance regarding stuff like logs that they may keep; good hosts should have a privacy policy explaining their policies. If you are trying to use SearXNG, you can also install the software on your device and then head to 127.0.0.1:8080 in your browser and search from there. While you don’t have to worry about a third-party admin like the public instances, search engines could ultimately block your IP address if they frown on you pulling in their search results locally. If you want to run it locally, it’s a good idea to use proxies or VPNs to hide your actual IP. You don’t have to worry about this with a public instance, as search engines never see your IP address. The main privacy benefit of using SearXNG is that it isolates your identity from the underlying engines that it’s capable of searching, such as Google and Bing. These search engines will only see requests coming from a generic server, so they can’t profile you and create a bubble filter that influences what results you see. This also ensures that your search engine doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that prevents you from reading alternative points of view. As a free software project, you are allowed to inspect SearXNG to make sure there are no negative features bundled inside. This sets it apart from the privacy search engines mentioned earlier because you can’t check their source code. As a meta search engine, you are not restricted to getting results from one source. Due to the fact that it scrapes content from other websites, your SearXNG instance will periodically get blocked from different providers, so it’s good to select a range of sources as a backup. While enabling all of the services will give you great results, this can make searching slower. I am personally happy with slower searches for the best results, but you can always check which providers are slowing down your search from the search results page and disable them to speed things up. If you want decent results quickly, enable the main search providers such as Google, Brave, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Bing, and Yahoo. This way, you get wide coverage without the latency. On the Engines tab in Preferences, do note that there are different tabs, such as General, Images, and Videos, with their own providers that can be toggled and are not covered by "Enable all" while on the General tab, so be sure to dig into each. Just a note, if you want to enable everything, press "Enable all" in one tab, then hit save at the bottom of the page, then do the next tab, and so on. If you press "Enable all", then do that in each tab, and then save, nothing will stick. When I had just some of the search engines enabled, I searched “define nefarious” and results came back with the definition of “define” - obviously that was a sucky result. However, when I had everything enabled, it found dictionary pages for the word “nefarious” and even had an inline definition on the sidebar, which is quite nice too - that was delivered by WolframAlpha for anyone wondering! Probably the worst thing about this meta search engine is that the engines you select are saved with a cookie, so you must enable them on every new device you use SearXNG on, including if you decide to go into incognito mode with your web browser. Honestly, I would say this is the most annoying aspect, and perhaps if your browser lets you choose a separate private browsing search engine, then it would be best to use DuckDuckGo for this portion of your browsing. Another weakness of SearXNG is the random blocking of it by search providers. When you are on the results page, expand the “Response time” box, and it will show things like “Suspended: too many requests” or “access denied”. This is why it is good to enable several providers so that there is always a fallback to get results from. I won’t pretend SearXNG will be for everyone, however, if you enable all of the providers and put up with the slower response time, the results can be really amazing. Even if you don’t want to use it as your daily driver, keeping a bookmark handy that links to it is a good idea if you ever feel like doing a deep dive into a niche topic where other search engines are just failing to bring up any good result, due to the amount of sources it looks on. If you’re interested in radical user control over the software you use, installing SearXNG locally can also be a good idea, but be prepared to be temporarily blocked from sites if you trigger bot sensors without a VPN. Personally, I’ve opted to use a public instance, rather than install it myself. If you want to use it via a public instance, head over to searx.space to find a provider. Let us know in the comments if you have used SearXNG or its predecessor, Searx. What do you think about the quality of the results?
    • Dear Neowin, If it is not too much trouble, can you start using the new-ish designations for Insider Preview? "Experimental" is different than "former Dev" as it can apply to different models, eg 26H1 or 26H2 etc, right? No need to seed confusion IMHO. And, please "finally" update your graphics. OK?
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      503
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      226
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      158
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!