Motherboard Upgrade for AIO. Is it feasible?

[saurabhdua]

Hello folks!

 

The specifications of my 'jinxed' HP AIO desktop have been listed here:-

 

https://support.hp.com/in-en/document/c03977251

 

RAM-Upgrade to 8GB haven't helped in my case & the overall experience with this machine continue to remain 'jittery' thus far!

 

So finally....is it possible to trash the default motherboard & replace it some 'Powerhouse' kind of configuration?

 

Are the Motherboard Upgrades feasible at first place? My local technician claim otherwise!?

 

Inputs will be sincerely appreciated.

 

Thank you. 

[+InsaneNutter MVC]

The motherboard inside will be bespoke, you won't be able to fit a new off the shelf motherboard inside that.

 

Any sort of standard off the shelf motherboard you can buy would be too big: 

If you can replace the hard drive with an SSD you might notice an improvement then, however the processor in that is not very good: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+E1-1500+APU which is probably the main issue if you already have 8gb of ram.

[ShadeOfBlue]

There is nothing you can do with that board. It is proprietary and specific to that model PC. Everything about it -- from the port types and locations, to the board shape and mounting holes -- are unique. If you are running Windows, you would also need to buy a new license if you changed to a different motherboard. And there are other reasons you can't/shouldn't do that as well. But those are enough.

[Mando]

1 hour ago, saurabhdua said:

Hello folks!

 

The specifications of my 'jinxed' HP AIO desktop have been listed here:-

 

https://support.hp.com/in-en/document/c03977251

 

RAM-Upgrade to 8GB haven't helped in my case & the overall experience with this machine continue to remain 'jittery' thus far!

 

So finally....is it possible to trash the default motherboard & replace it some 'Powerhouse' kind of configuration?

 

Are the Motherboard Upgrades feasible at first place? My local technician claim otherwise!?

 

Inputs will be sincerely appreciated.

 

Thank you. 

Nope.

 

sell it and buy a standard desktop/laptop is your only course of action.

[DevTech]

Yes of course you can do this!

 

But all the other advice is probably more correct for most people!

 

It all depends on how "handy" you are and how much fun you get out of this sort of thing and how much "down time" you can tolerate while working out really knotty problems.

 

I've done this. It's fun. It's not for everyone.

 

An AIO is just a computer. There is a limit to how weird they can get because the manufacturer saves money by staying within the PC spectrum.

 

So, you have two major approaches:

 

A) Change the mobo

 

B) Bypass the mobo and buy a case/PSU/Mobo/etc in some small (or large) form factor and then adapt and extend all the cables.

 

Don't worry about Windows

 

Your Windows license will be valid as a legal thing since you are throwing away the old stuff and keeping from your point of view the same computer. It is just a big upgrade! From a practical perspective of license management the OEM license is theoretically tied to the motherboard but that is just the activation system and not actually the legality of it. If you copy down your license key you can use it for a Windows 10 activation if the computer was previously still running Windows 8. If you did the W10 upgrade on the old mobo then keep all receipts for the new mobo and use the chat help to Windows support inside Windows 10 after you install it and be prepared to send a digital image of the receipt. Will all work out fine.

 

A) Change the Mobo

 

This is challenging and nothing will match up

 

1. Use the photo InsaneNutter provided in a previous post to select a size smaller than the current one. Buy a powerful mobo and CPU in that form factor

 

2. Plan out which cables need to be adapted into different connectors

 

3. You will probably need a dremel tool or hacksaw to cut a large hole in the AIO rear case to permit larger height.

 

4. You might need to bu a mini-power supply to get the right connector and probably much more wattage to accommodate your "Pocket Rocket" which with a cable extension could sit as a "power brick" on the desk.

 

5. Mounting holes will not match up and now we are in "real handyman" territory to figure out how to attach the mobo. Careful examination is need to make sure there is no metallic contact with any part of the frame. Thin plywood can sometimes help, along with craft store plastic, hot glue, epoxy and duct tape! If you have access to a 3D printer the new mounting can look very professional. Whatever scheme you devise, make sure you can easily unscrew the mobo for maintenance and diagnostics.

 

Before you start: In any case, try a new Samsung 850 SSD to see if that is enough of a help before embarking on the project!

 

 

 

 

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

13 minutes ago, DevTech said:

 

Don't worry about Windows

 

Your Windows license will be valid as a legal thing since you are throwing away the old stuff and keeping from your point of view the same computer. It is just a big upgrade! From a practical perspective of license management the OEM license is theoretically tied to the motherboard but that is just the activation system and not actually the legality of it. If you copy down your license key you can use it for a Windows 10 activation if the computer was previously still running Windows 8. If you did the W10 upgrade on the old mobo then keep all receipts for the new mobo and use the chat help to Windows support inside Windows 10 after you install it and be prepared to send a digital image of the receipt. Will all work out fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Technically, that's a way of cheating... OEM is tied to your board. If that board dies, you are out of luck.

[CrashG]

Like folks have mentioned in some of your other threads about this machine. Just get a better one if possible. Sell the current one after you get new one to recover some costs.

[DevTech]

1 minute ago, Mindovermaster said:

Technically, that's a way of cheating... OEM is tied to your board. If that board dies, you are out of luck.

The purpose of the OEM license is to tie it to a specific computer and the motherboard just happens to be a convenient technology to do that.

 

If the motherboard fails and is replaced the activation will be lost. If the original motherboard is not available, then a replacement motherboard is required. If the user wants to upgrade his computer, Microsoft has ALWAYS supported that concept. He will have ZERO problem phone activating his upgrade because he is fully within the intent of this system as opposed to the "letter of the law"

 

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

1 minute ago, DevTech said:

The purpose of the OEM license is to tie it to a specific computer and the motherboard just happens to be a convenient technology to do that.

 

If the motherboard fails and is replaced the activation will be lost. If the original motherboard is not available, then a replacement motherboard is required. If the user wants to upgrade his computer, Microsoft has ALWAYS supported that concept. He will have ZERO problem phone activating his upgrade because he is fully within the intent of this system as opposed to the "letter of the law"

 

If it is the same board, it is possible, yes. But OEM's aren't transferable like retail licenses are.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

The current motherboard listed in your system is 159mm x 180mm.  Unfortunately you couldn't put a mini-ITX in there (170mm x 170mm)...which leaves either a nano-ITX or pico-ITX motherboard for you to rig up ... both of which I fear are going to bit underwhelming (if not expensive or not worth it).  However, if you have ample room within the back shroud ... maybe you could squeeze a slim mini-ITX in there...like this ...  but you'll have to break out the tape measure since one side will be 11mm longer or wider than the original motherboard (which I seriously doubt will be doable).

 

You could strap a raspberry pi onto the back and call it a day. 

 

 

[DevTech]

Just now, Mindovermaster said:

If it is the same board, it is possible, yes. But OEM's aren't transferable like retail licenses are.

 "If that board dies, you are out of luck" - simply incorrect but that is in fact a common myth! Microsoft absolutely does not want to see that happen!

 

In the case of an upgrade, that also has always been an approved path, Forget about the motherboard, you are looking at it too technical. It is a computer "BOX" and the license is for the BOX (abstractly) so as long as a single user is still using the single same BOX, there is nothing being transferred.

 

 

 

[DevTech]

13 minutes ago, CrashGordon said:

Like folks have mentioned in some of your other threads about this machine. Just get a better one if possible. Sell the current one after you get new one to recover some costs.

Yes, soldered low end AMD CPU with 2 slots of Laptop RAM on a non-standard mobo is impossible to upgrade other than SSD.

 

Replacing mobo is fun project I have "outlined" but the old saying "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it" translates to "if you have to ask what to do, you probably can't do it"

 

Note to OP: Dell makes a fantastic AIO with hi-res 27" touch screen and the Microsoft Surface AIO with the cute "Dial" is darned attractive as well.

 

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

15 minutes ago, DevTech said:

 "If that board dies, you are out of luck" - simply incorrect but that is in fact a common myth! Microsoft absolutely does not want to see that happen!

 

In the case of an upgrade, that also has always been an approved path, Forget about the motherboard, you are looking at it too technical. It is a computer "BOX" and the license is for the BOX (abstractly) so as long as a single user is still using the single same BOX, there is nothing being transferred.

 

 

 

And you think MS isn't technical? You read their terms of license? It's there for a reason. What you are doing is called cutting the corners. The "BOX" you discribe is called the motherboard. An OEM can not be transferred from board to board. If you think this is untrue, give me a link.

[DevTech]

3 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

And you think MS isn't technical? You read their terms of license? It's there for a reason. What you are doing is called cutting the corners. The "BOX" you discribe is called the motherboard. An OEM can not be transferred from board to board. If you think this is untrue, give me a link.

I know this to be true from personal experience of hours talking to Microsoft reps on support lines. The key differentiator is the "intent" of changing the motherboard. You may be correct in your legal interpretation of just the fine print that lawyers cook up to protect their rear ends and deal with cases of serious abuse, but what Microsoft wants to see happen in most cases is crystal clear:

 

If you are building a NEW computer then you need a NEW license. If you are upgrading an existing computer then you don't. That is what Microsoft in the form of support people that control activation want to see happen. A happy customer who has the right to upgrade their computer continuing to be happy using Windows. (when you  think about it, anything else would be absurd customer support and business practice which would possibly produce an opening for the customer to consider another operating system) 

 

But I don't have any problem with you providing extra revenue to Microsoft in terms of helping them out with additional unnecessary purchases. In theory all money enters the economy and does something useful to mankind!

 

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

12 minutes ago, DevTech said:

I know this to be true from personal experience of hours talking to Microsoft reps on support lines. The key differentiator is the "intent" of changing the motherboard. You may be correct in your legal interpretation of just the fine print that lawyers cook up to protect their rear ends and deal with cases of serious abuse, but what Microsoft wants to see happen in most cases is crystal clear:

 

If you are building a NEW computer then you need a NEW license. If you are upgrading an existing computer then you don't. That is what Microsoft in the form of support people that control activation want to see happen. A happy customer who has the right to upgrade their computer continuing to be happy using Windows. (when you  think about it, anything else would be absurd customer support and business practice which would possibly produce an opening for the customer to consider another operating system) 

 

But I don't have any problem with you providing extra revenue to Microsoft in terms of helping them out with additional unnecessary purchases. In theory all money enters the economy and does something useful to mankind!

 

See my OS on the left? Since 7 years ago, when I turned to Linux, I don't give a **** about MS. This is from what I KNOW. I went to school for this. I was using Windows at the time.

 

What you know always isn't the truth.

[DevTech]

Just now, Mindovermaster said:

See my OS on the left? Since 7 years ago, when I turned to Linux, I don't give a **** about MS. This is from what I KNOW. I went to school for this. I was using Windows at the time.

 

What you know always isn't the truth.

Your reply is a bit hard to understand.

 

If it is a question of promoting Linux, then finding every edge case possible to suggest a switch to Linux might be an appropriate strategy. I think Linux desktop usage might be in a path to surpass Mac OS although both are tiny. Choice is always good.

 

Either way, we should start a new discussion thread for your interesting topic since this is a hardware forum "how to" thread for the OP to fix his HP AIO.

 

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

2 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Your reply is a bit hard to understand.

 

If it is a question of promoting Linux, then finding every edge case possible to suggest a switch to Linux might be an appropriate strategy. I think Linux desktop usage might be in a path to surpass Mac OS although both are tiny. Choice is always good.

 

Either way, we should start a new discussion thread for your interesting topic since this is a hardware forum "how to" thread for the OP to fix his HP AIO.

 

Whatrever. I'm done here...

[DevTech]

2 hours ago, Jim K said:

The current motherboard listed in your system is 159mm x 180mm.  Unfortunately you couldn't put a mini-ITX in there (170mm x 170mm)...which leaves either a nano-ITX or pico-ITX motherboard for you to rig up ... both of which I fear are going to bit underwhelming (if not expensive or not worth it).  However, if you have ample room within the back shroud ... maybe you could squeeze a slim mini-ITX in there...like this ...  but you'll have to break out the tape measure since one side will be 11mm longer or wider than the original motherboard (which I seriously doubt will be doable).

 

You could strap a raspberry pi onto the back and call it a day. 

 

 

I'd say that taking some big cable ties and strapping your suggested board to the back would yield the kick in the pants his computer needs!

 

H110 chipset will allow 2 16 gig RAM modules for 32 GIG RAM and a i7 6700 for some decent CPU experience! The i7 also gives a workable GPU...

 

And super bonus is a M.2 slot for a Samsung 960 EVO...

 

Talk about a night and day upgrade!

 

[Mando]

9 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

Technically, that's a way of cheating... OEM is tied to your board. If that board dies, you are out of luck.

while you are correct, Microsoft will happily reset the activation limits on OEMs COAs if you replace a motherboard due to hardware failure, when the same board cannot be sourced, they will ask you, how many machines is this COA used on, when you reply 1, they will reset the limit without question, infact both the automated and verbal reset will be processed and the new activation code will be divulged to you there and then.

 

It even gives you that option if you use the automated phone system with an OEM COA, so while you are technically correct, so is Devtech with his answer. Ive done it on XP OEM COAS and windows 7 OEM COAS over the last decade without a single refusal.

 

I have had to do this on lots of Dell OEM COAS professionally, where companys use the oems instead of VLK licences.

[saurabhdua]

11 hours ago, DevTech said:

Before you start: In any case, try a new Samsung 850 SSD to see if that is enough of a help before embarking on the project!

Well...Thank you very much for the all effort you have put it at that post. You think an Upgrade to 850 SSD will somehow compensate for extremely meek Processor performance ? If yes, by how much? Will the Benchmark results shoot up by 100 or something?

Edited September 12, 2017 by saurabhdua

[saurabhdua]

On 9/11/2017 at 2:39 PM, ShadeOfBlue said:

It is proprietary and specific to that model PC

Are the Branded AIOs suppose to be like that? Isn't this a rigged configuration or a kind of unofficial/unethical variant doing rounds under the cloak of HP? 

[saurabhdua]

10 hours ago, CrashGordon said:

Sell the current one after you get new one to recover some costs.

Are you aware of any official 'Exchange schemes' relevant to HP variants from the Company side? Its a 3-year old Model. Can I "Upgrade" via exchange through their official outlets/franchisee?

[DevTech]

Just now, saurabhdua said:

Are you aware of any official 'Exchange schemes' relevant to HP variants from the Company side? Its a 3-year old Model. Can I "Upgrade" via exchange through their official outlets/franchisee?

I think you live in an alternate reality universe.

 

Customer support like that sailed away 20 years ago...

[DevTech]

16 minutes ago, saurabhdua said:

Are the Branded AIOs suppose to be like that? Isn't this a rigged configuration or a kind of unofficial/unethical variant doing rounds under the cloak of HP? 

Desktop computers have standards they conform to for physical layouts which is why power supplies and peripherals all fit in standard cases.

 

Laptops have no such standards as they innovate every year to cram more stuff into smaller form factors.

 

AIO computers are more like laptops and in fact tend to use laptop CPU's and laptop RAM etc to make a thinner form factor that can endure more heat in a compact enclosure, but the parts cost more and nothing is standard at the motherboard level. Nothing odd at all about HP's design. Part of the problem is that you bought a low end piece of junk. 

 

If you had bought the 27" Dell AIO that year, it would have A) not been a total crappy slug and B) been expandable - to get that you pay more money. Simple economics. There is a reason that lots of people spend lots of money on a computer so they don't have to live with the frustration you are experiencing.

 

 

[DevTech]

30 minutes ago, saurabhdua said:

Well...Thank you very much for the all effort you have put it at that post. You think an Upgrade to 850 SSD will somehow compensate for extremely meek Processor performance ? If yes, by how much? Will the Benchmark results shoot up by 100 or something?

A SSD is the easiest performance upgrade to make. If it doesn't help, it is not lost money since you can use it in the next computer you buy.

 

In your case it is the only performance upgrade that is easy and available. 

 

The Disk is 1/4 of the performance quad. ---> CPU - RAM - GPU - Disk

 

Any software that is 100% bottle-necked on any of the other 3 areas will not benefit from a SSD.

 

Most people are impressed with the upgrade since things load faster, update faster etc but if the CPU is 100% of the problem, then you won't see much benefit.

 

Run the Windows 10 Performance Monitor and see where the slowdown is...