Microsoft Kernel Patch CPU Before and After Benchmarks Thread


Recommended Posts

  On 07/01/2018 at 18:33, LimeMaster said:

Might end up being an unlucky combo. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. :/

Expand  

That would be unfortunate.

RE: Microcode updates. For older motherboard users who likely are never going to get official EFI updates, VMWare has a tool that can update a CPU's microcode

 

https://labs.vmware.com/flings/vmware-cpu-microcode-update-driver

 

Good luck finding the relevant 'microcode.dat' file needed for Intel CPUs though. I haven't yet located where Sandybridge's latest one is.

The only one I was able to find was for Linux distributions, I guess specific to virtualization of Linux distributions, nothing pertinent to Windows.

Edited by DeusProto
  • Like 2
  On 07/01/2018 at 03:37, LimeMaster said:

I understand why Linus is angry then.

Expand  

cos hes an attention seeking bellend? What bout his beloved ARM he proclaims, they are affected also......yup confirmed intel hating bellend! 

 

 

  • Like 3
  On 08/01/2018 at 08:34, DeusProto said:

RE: Microcode updates. For older motherboard users who likely are never going to get official EFI updates, VMWare has a tool that can update a CPU's microcode

 

https://labs.vmware.com/flings/vmware-cpu-microcode-update-driver

 

Good luck finding the relevant 'microcode.dat' file needed for Intel CPUs though. I haven't yet located where Sandybridge's latest one is.

The only one I was able to find was for Linux distributions, I guess specific to virtualization of Linux distributions, nothing pertinent to Windows.

Expand  

I am in the same situation as You are. Nothing from either ASUS or Intel for Sandy Bridge. In fact, I am almost certain Intel will not release anything for Sandy Bridge and older since, theoretically, these chips would be more affected by the slowdown than Broadwell and later. I still can't find anything on Haswell V1 either.

It's exhausting when you all think you are testing old CPU's when it's been said the problem goes back to CPU's from 1995.

Seriously all the sarcastic and flippant little remarks about it being overblown is silly nonsense.

I seen 1 guy bench an newer i7 then right away a guy made a crack about the problem being no big deal.

I wouldn't have a problem with that had people actually done testing first.. but they haven't.

Clearly most of you did not hear what was said in the first place.

No one anywhere on the internet said *ALL* CPU's would get a 20/30% CPU penalty. (The same amount of speed loss)

You are making that up in your head.

What was ACTUALLY said  is could vary by CPU and WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

Get it yet ?

It's tiring when people fail miserably to comprehend what is posted int he stories.

Then.. get extremely rude snotty arrogant and offensive about it.

 

My "old" Haswell 4770k i7 i used to have was more powerful than 20 of the PC's i am using right now.

So think about it.. is your old dual core from 2005 going to be more affected than a CPU from last year (that you call "old") ?

 

I don't like the It's not a problem at all guys or.. the hysteria people saying it;s the end of the world.

Can we get a fair HONEST and accurate balance that is based of of REAL testing ?

And don't forget people already made their opinions / judgments for all CPU's based on the first few "old" CPU;'s people benched.

 

I've been bench'ing for a decade or two and already have a pile of software installed.

I will do some testing but i was waiting for WU to offer the patch to me via Windows update.

I am not inclined to seek out and manually install updates.. on Windows 7.

I have seen 1 or 2 problems with WU over the last 20 years. LOL

Remember when it was a website only ? ;)

 

So.. system calls you say ?

Well i wonder what to use then.. my all time fav was LinX for Intel and an AMD patched version.

I've found it to be a real CPU crusher when hunting for instability with your OC. (better than others like Prime95)

I've used all the old popular ones of course.

 

Anyway once i know what to test with (That utilizes system calls) what ever that means.. and i am offered the update i will test and post.

I know what a system call is generally speaking.

For example i have coded .dll emulator stubs before that patched the export table and emulated internal built in functions on programs.

I have coed a lot of programs and cracked / reverse engineered a lot of "targets" ranging from Windows apps to Linux to Android to Java etc.

People are repeating this "systems call" comment all over vaguely.

it matters then to choose a benchmark that will ACTUALLY test the issue.

Vs people testing with a test program that will never show a difference.

 

Lastly don't mistake my comments for anything other than the truth.

I like AMD and Intel etc.. i have no desire to cheerlead or jump chips or minimize or hype up the problem.

I simply desire the honest facts.. nothing more.

I started reading this to see "old" benchmarks and i didn't really see any after a few pages.. but a whole lot of sarcastic comments.

I have logged bench stats from many app's going back to 2010 and earlier.

I test everything and log everything and have it all stored. (655 files in 60 folders) and maybe more "Becnhmark stats/pics" elsewhere i forgot about.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

i'm really curious as to what's gonna happen with the old motherboards, i mean really old, something that was manufactured in the late 90's or early 2000. I'm pretty sure  these boards with core2duo/quad or AMD X2/X4/Phenom machines won't get any bios updates anymore. Does this mean they'll always be vulnerable to these exploits?

  On 08/01/2018 at 13:12, Mando said:

Nice post godflesh :) 

 

@warwagonmight be worth asking to mods to clean up the thread to leave just benchmark outputs. Im guilty as the rest going off on a tangent.

Expand  

Don't request that. Neowin needs to feel more lively to get encourage members to participate.

  On 08/01/2018 at 16:24, Jampe said:

My tests with performancetest 64bit by passmark shows significant changes. Results dropped from 1600 points to 1200. Expecially 2D graphics suffered big way, over 30 % performance loss

Expand  

Why would 2d or 3D graphics suffer when gpu code isn’t x86 as far as I know? The fix is only for x86. 

  On 08/01/2018 at 15:31, muratoner said:

i'm really curious as to what's gonna happen with the old motherboards, i mean really old, something that was manufactured in the late 90's or early 2000. I'm pretty sure  these boards with core2duo/quad or AMD X2/X4/Phenom machines won't get any bios updates anymore. Does this mean they'll always be vulnerable to these exploits?

Expand  

Well how about the motherboard the average user is using? Do you really think they will ever download a bios update?

  On 08/01/2018 at 11:47, Godflesh said:

It's exhausting when you all think you are testing old CPU's when it's been said the problem goes back to CPU's from 1995.

Seriously all the sarcastic and flippant little remarks about it being overblown is silly nonsense.

I seen 1 guy bench an newer i7 then right away a guy made a crack about the problem being no big deal.

I wouldn't have a problem with that had people actually done testing first.. but they haven't.

Clearly most of you did not hear what was said in the first place.

No one anywhere on the internet said *ALL* CPU's would get a 20/30% CPU penalty. (The same amount of speed loss)

You are making that up in your head.

What was ACTUALLY said  is could vary by CPU and WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

Get it yet ?

It's tiring when people fail miserably to comprehend what is posted int he stories.

Then.. get extremely rude snotty arrogant and offensive about it.

 

My "old" Haswell 4770k i7 i used to have was more powerful than 20 of the PC's i am using right now.

So think about it.. is your old dual core from 2005 going to be more affected than a CPU from last year (that you call "old") ?

 

I don't like the It's not a problem at all guys or.. the hysteria people saying it;s the end of the world.

Can we get a fair HONEST and accurate balance that is based of of REAL testing ?

And don't forget people already made their opinions / judgments for all CPU's based on the first few "old" CPU;'s people benched.

 

I've been bench'ing for a decade or two and already have a pile of software installed.

I will do some testing but i was waiting for WU to offer the patch to me via Windows update.

I am not inclined to seek out and manually install updates.. on Windows 7.

I have seen 1 or 2 problems with WU over the last 20 years. LOL

Remember when it was a website only ? ;)

 

So.. system calls you say ?

Well i wonder what to use then.. my all time fav was LinX for Intel and an AMD patched version.

I've found it to be a real CPU crusher when hunting for instability with your OC. (better than others like Prime95)

I've used all the old popular ones of course.

 

Anyway once i know what to test with (That utilizes system calls) what ever that means.. and i am offered the update i will test and post.

I know what a system call is generally speaking.

For example i have coded .dll emulator stubs before that patched the export table and emulated internal built in functions on programs.

I have coed a lot of programs and cracked / reverse engineered a lot of "targets" ranging from Windows apps to Linux to Android to Java etc.

People are repeating this "systems call" comment all over vaguely.

it matters then to choose a benchmark that will ACTUALLY test the issue.

Vs people testing with a test program that will never show a difference.

 

Lastly don't mistake my comments for anything other than the truth.

I like AMD and Intel etc.. i have no desire to cheerlead or jump chips or minimize or hype up the problem.

I simply desire the honest facts.. nothing more.

I started reading this to see "old" benchmarks and i didn't really see any after a few pages.. but a whole lot of sarcastic comments.

I have logged bench stats from many app's going back to 2010 and earlier.

I test everything and log everything and have it all stored. (655 files in 60 folders) and maybe more "Becnhmark stats/pics" elsewhere i forgot about.

Expand  

If you were referring to me as he person who “brushed” off the newer i7, that isn’t true. I said more testing needed to be done. Too many false positives, unrelated changes, and fake results out there to be trusting single reports. 

  On 08/01/2018 at 16:30, LimeMaster said:

Don't request that. Neowin needs to feel more lively to get encourage members to participate.

Expand  

 

  On 08/01/2018 at 13:12, Mando said:

Nice post godflesh :) 

 

@warwagonmight be worth asking to mods to clean up the thread to leave just benchmark outputs. Im guilty as the rest going off on a tangent.

Expand  

All I care about is comments and thread views. As long as my thread gets bumped to the top, stays active and gets lots of comments and thread views i'm happy.

 

Right now I have a thread that is on page 5, 113 replies and 3,553 Views, i'm thrilled!

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  On 08/01/2018 at 17:18, warwagon said:

Well how about the motherboard the average user is using? Do you really think they will ever download a bios update?

Expand  

Good point. i'm afraid we might hear about web sites stealing passwords/credit card info's in masses.

right its now been reported some NVidia cards/tablets are  susceptible.

 

Alice in wonderland effect :p 

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/product-security/

 

Latest drivers 390.65 

 

NVIDIA is providing an initial security update to mitigate aspects of Google Project Zero’s January 3, 2018 publication of novel information disclosure attacks that combine CPU speculative execution with known side channels.

The vulnerability has three known variants:

Variant 1 (CVE-2017-5753): Mitigations are provided with the security update included in this bulletin. NVIDIA expects to work together with its ecosystem partners on future updates to further strengthen mitigations.

Variant 2 (CVE-2017-5715): NVIDIA’s initial analysis indicates that the NVIDIA GPU Display Driver is potentially affected by this variant. NVIDIA expects to work together with its ecosystem partners on future updates for this variant.

Variant 3 (CVE-2017-5754): At this time, NVIDIA has no reason to believe that the NVIDIA GPU Display Driver is vulnerable to this variant.

 

there we have it guys. 

 

Affected Products

 

  • GeForce, Quadro, NVSWindows, Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris
  • Tesla Windows, Linux

 

Get updating peoples! 

  On 08/01/2018 at 17:18, warwagon said:

Well how about the motherboard the average user is using? Do you really think they will ever download a bios update?

Expand  

no but they should be using a half decent AV which should now protect against the issue. If your chosen vendor doesnt yet, bin them and use one that does :) 

  On 08/01/2018 at 18:22, Mando said:

right its now been reported some NVidia cards/tablets are  susceptible.

 

Alice in wonderland effect :p 

 

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/product-security/

 

Latest drivers 390.65 

 

NVIDIA is providing an initial security update to mitigate aspects of Google Project Zero’s January 3, 2018 publication of novel information disclosure attacks that combine CPU speculative execution with known side channels.

The vulnerability has three known variants:

Variant 1 (CVE-2017-5753): Mitigations are provided with the security update included in this bulletin. NVIDIA expects to work together with its ecosystem partners on future updates to further strengthen mitigations.

Variant 2 (CVE-2017-5715): NVIDIA’s initial analysis indicates that the NVIDIA GPU Display Driver is potentially affected by this variant. NVIDIA expects to work together with its ecosystem partners on future updates for this variant.

Variant 3 (CVE-2017-5754): At this time, NVIDIA has no reason to believe that the NVIDIA GPU Display Driver is vulnerable to this variant.

 

there we have it guys. 

 

Affected Products

 

  • GeForce, Quadro, NVSWindows, Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris
  • Tesla Windows, Linux

 

Get updating peoples! 

Expand  

Now that Nvidia finally admitted it, a benchmark would be nice on a fully slowed system... secured that is :)

Now that the NVidia fix is out in 390.65 benchies below against post Win patch. Lower scores for NVidia patch in Bold.

 

Cinebench 4D BEFORE Win patch

CPU Benchmark = 966CB

OpenGL Bench = 140 FPS

AFTER

CPU Benchmark = 975CB ???

OpenGl Bench = 149.95 FPS ???

NVidia Driver update

CPU Benchmark = 962CB

OpenGL Bench =147.64FPS
 

3D Mark timespy extreme BEFORE

3998

AFTER

3997 ????

NVidia Driver Update

3971

 

Novabench 

2713

After

2703

NVidia Driver update

2677
 

RealBench BEFORE

Image Editing 212,486/ Time 25.0745

Encoding 93,501/time 56.9829

OpenCL 113,529/ Ksamples per sec 20877

Heavy Multitasking 110,647

Time 68.9761

System Score 132,540

RealBench AFTER

Image Editing 208.830/Time 25.5135

Encoding 92,841/time 57.3881

OpenCL 113,529/ Ksamples/sec 20922

Heavy Multitasking 103,867/Time 73.4779

System Score 129,766

 

Post NVidia 

Image Editing 108,788/ Time 48.9757

Encoding 84,939/time 62.7273

OpenCL 113,529/ Ksamples per sec 20948

Heavy Multitasking 99,848

Time 76.4357

System Score 101,776 

 

A drop of 28k overall in Realbench is a large amount.

 

So a bigger hit overall post NVidia patch, not good IMO :( hopefully post Microcode/Biosd update it recoups some of the lost perf. Once Microcode/Bios is out ill benchmark a 3rd time.

 

Must be noted, this is not extensive testing, did a single run where possible.

 

  On 08/01/2018 at 19:40, Yogurth said:

Now that Nvidia finally admitted it, a benchmark would be nice on a fully slowed system... secured that is :)

Expand  

 

  On 08/01/2018 at 19:41, Mando said:

Now that the NVidia fix is out in 390.65 benchies below against post Win patch. Lower scores for NVidia patch in Bold.

 

Cinebench 4D BEFORE Win patch

CPU Benchmark = 966CB

OpenGL Bench = 140 FPS

AFTER

CPU Benchmark = 975CB ???

OpenGl Bench = 149.95 FPS ???

NVidia Driver update

CPU Benchmark = 962CB

OpenGL Bench =147.64FPS
 

3D Mark timespy extreme BEFORE

3998

AFTER

3997 ????

NVidia Driver Update

3971

 

Novabench 

2713

After

2703

NVidia Driver update

2677
 

RealBench BEFORE

Image Editing 212,486/ Time 25.0745

Encoding 93,501/time 56.9829

OpenCL 113,529/ Ksamples per sec 20877

Heavy Multitasking 110,647

Time 68.9761

System Score 132,540

RealBench AFTER

Image Editing 208.830/Time 25.5135

Encoding 92,841/time 57.3881

OpenCL 113,529/ Ksamples/sec 20922

Heavy Multitasking 103,867/Time 73.4779

System Score 129,766

 

Post NVidia 

Image Editing 108,788/ Time 48.9757

Encoding 84,939/time 62.7273

OpenCL 113,529/ Ksamples per sec 20948

Heavy Multitasking 99,848

Time 76.4357

System Score 101,776 

 

A drop of 28k overall in Realbench is a large amount.

 

So a bigger hit overall post NVidia patch, not good IMO :( hopefully post Microcode/Biosd update it recoups some of the lost perf. Once Microcode/Bios is out ill benchmark a 3rd time.

 

Must be noted, this is not extensive testing, did a single run where possible.

 

 

Expand  

Seems like we are going to end up with Phoronix results on Linux :( If further testing confirms Your small test industry is going back to Haswell performance. 

 

 

 

I hear AMD is having a party at CES, entire Vegas is invited :)

  On 08/01/2018 at 20:20, Yogurth said:

Seems like we are going to end up with Phoronix results on Linux :( If further testing confirms Your small test industry is going back to Haswell performance. 

 

 

 

I hear AMD is having a party at CES, entire Vegas is invited :)

Expand  

tbh that party may be shortlived, once we know more about Spectre exploits. 

 

Who knows tbh, until its all public its speculation.

  On 08/01/2018 at 20:25, Mando said:

tbh that party may be shortlived, once we know more about Spectre exploits. 

 

Who knows tbh, until its all public its speculation.

Expand  

You are punny. 

  On 08/01/2018 at 17:15, adrynalyne said:

Why would 2d or 3D graphics suffer when gpu code isn’t x86 as far as I know? The fix is only for x86. 

Expand  

as far as I understand this problem affects everything that goes between user mode app and OS itself.OS is isolated of the user data app by cpu feature.

 If you measure cpu speed only it will not give a good idea how much have changed. You have to measure overhead between your application and OS (drivers included). That means pretty much everything is slower and depending on the task at hand, some more some less. Tasks that require a lot of data passed from user mode to OS will be slower. Am I right?

  On 09/01/2018 at 05:33, Jampe said:

as far as I understand this problem affects everything that goes between user mode app and OS itself.OS is isolated of the user data app by cpu feature.

 If you measure cpu speed only it will not give a good idea how much have changed. You have to measure overhead between your application and OS (drivers included). That means pretty much everything is slower and depending on the task at hand, some more some less. Tasks that require a lot of data passed from user mode to OS will be slower. Am I right?

Expand  

Maybe? This isn't my forte. As it was explained to me, it matters if it is x86 code instructions being called with sys calls. The GPU isn't x86 as far as I know.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Microsoft Store is getting improved recommendations, deeper Windows integration, and more by Taras Buria Microsoft announced several new features coming to the Microsoft Store on Windows 11. The company revealed that 250 million customers use the Microsoft Store each month. With the latest updates, Microsoft is improving the experience with better recommendations, search improvements, deeper Windows integration, Copilot, and more. The store's Home Page is getting personalized recommendations with suggestions based on your recent activities, what is trending in your region, and the recent deals. Microsoft says this change will bring more meaningful and relevant content. Search is getting smarter, and it now uses additional information when ranking apps. It is "intent-aware," and considers additional aspects like app updates, ratings, language-specific nuances, and more. In the United States, the Microsoft Store now has a Copilot button at the bottom of the screen. Clicking it lets you ask questions about an app or game, or compare two products. Speaking of Copilot, apps with AI-powered experiences now have a badge indicating that certain apps work better on Copilot+ PCs. Other changes to the Microsoft Store include a new Discover More section with related apps and deeper Windows integration. The latter lets you find apps in the Microsoft Store using Windows Search, and the "Open With" dialog now includes additional recommendations from the Microsoft Store. Finally, Microsoft made multiple under-the-hood improvements to boost performance (the app launches twice as fast as it did six months ago) and improve installation reliability. In addition to new features coming to the Microsoft Store, the company reminded users that some popular productivity apps are now available in the Store. They include Notion, Perplexity, Docker, and Day One. You can read more about all those changes in a post on the official Windows Blogs website. Last month, at Build 2025, Microsoft announced more improvements for the Microsoft Store, so stay tuned for those.
    • OpenAI exposes secret propaganda campaigns tied to multiple countries by David Uzondu Back in February, OpenAI shut down accounts that were busy developing Chinese surveillance tools aimed at the West. These tools were designed to snoop on social media, look for anti-China sentiment and protests, and report back to Chinese authorities. Now, OpenAI has announced it has disrupted even more shady operations, and not just those tied to China. In a report released Thursday, the company detailed how it recently dismantled ten different operations that were misusing its artificial intelligence tools. One of the China-linked groups, which OpenAI called "Sneer Review," used ChatGPT to churn out short comments for sites like TikTok, X, and Facebook. The topics varied, from U.S. politics to criticism of a Taiwanese game, where players work against the Chinese Communist Party. This operation even generated posts and then replied to its own posts to fake real discussions. What is particularly interesting is that the group also used ChatGPT to write internal performance reviews, describing how well they were running their influence campaign. Another operation with ties to China involved individuals posing as journalists and geopolitical analysts. They used ChatGPT to write social media posts and biographies for their fake accounts on X, translate messages from Chinese to English, and analyze data. OpenAI mentioned that this group even analyzed correspondence addressed to a U.S. Senator. On top of that, these actors used OpenAI's models to create marketing materials, basically advertising their services for running fake social media campaigns and recruiting intelligence sources. OpenAI also disrupted operations, probably originating in Russia and Iran. There was also a spam operation from a marketing company in the Philippines, a recruitment scam linked to Cambodia, and a deceptive job campaign that looked like something North Korea might orchestrate. Ben Nimmo, from OpenAI's intelligence team, noted the wide range of tactics and platforms these groups are using. However, he also said these operations were mostly caught early and did not manage to fool large numbers of real people. According to Nimmo, "We didn't generally see these operations getting more engagement because of their use of AI. For these operations, better tools don't necessarily mean better outcomes."
    • Long ago, I was in a networking class on a lab computer. The guy next to sarcastically told me to SHIFT+DELETE the C:\Windows folder. I said that I was sure Windows wouldn't allow such a thing (Windows 2000), and would either totally block the action or give some kind of dire warning. I was so confident that I tried it...not only was I wrong, but it didn't even give the standard "are you sure" warning, just went to town. I pressed cancel as quick as I could, but it was too late, shortly after, the system blue-screened and never booted again. I had to stay late and reinstall Windows for the teacher, but that ended up being a good thing, had great repour with him for the rest of the year, even got to help him get Active Directory setup in his lab.
    • My best decision: SHIFT+DELETE WINDOWS Then Installed Fedora Linux. Now I am a Happy Person
  • Recent Achievements

    • One Year In
      survivor303 earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      jbatch earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • First Post
      Yianis earned a badge
      First Post
    • Rookie
      GTRoberts went up a rank
      Rookie
    • First Post
      James courage Tabla earned a badge
      First Post
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      419
    2. 2
      snowy owl
      182
    3. 3
      +FloatingFatMan
      182
    4. 4
      ATLien_0
      176
    5. 5
      Xenon
      136
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!