Backing up DVD / blu ray & CD collection?

[sc302 Veteran]

11 minutes ago, DevTech said:

Well, he has done some of those things.

 

1. He has done a direct copy RIP.

 

2. He has viewed the DVD in "native" form and found it lacking (as we suspected would happen).

 

3. Which allowed him to discover that the PS4 upscaling circuit was the "secret sauce" in why he didn't perceive DVD to be low quality.

 

4. Which to me means the next step given that he has 500 DVDs is to figure out how to upscale them in a sophisticated manner (i.e. not direct pixel multiplication) and be happy with the reult before anything else proceeds because:

 

5. Forget MKV/MP4 etc compressed formats for now as a Red Herring, if he can't get a direct original copy to be acceptable!

 

 

Another user asked the question.  Bud man and I answered the question.  

 

That being said, PLEX will upscale     But it won’t be Blu-ray quality, it will be slightly better than dvd quality. It will be tolerable. 

[DevTech]

1 minute ago, sc302 said:

Another user asked the question.  Bud man and I answered the question.  

 

That being said, PLEX will upscale     But it won’t be Blu-ray quality, it will be slightly better than dvd quality. It will be tolerable. 

Don't want to be annoying but there is "simple upscale" and then there is "extremely sophisticated upscale" which I tried to show with a photo in the previous post about mosquito artifacts.

 

So I don't have a PS4, but Sony does have a reputation in their DVD/BluRay Players for quality upscaling (in their "pro and pro-sumer" models) so the PS4 might have something leaning into the "extremely sophisticated upscale" category.

 

So where is PLEX on that range and he needs to view it and be happy it is as good as PS4 before he goes any further or it is all a waste of time...

 

Or he could rent a BluRay copy of each of his DVDs and RIP those which in theory should be legal since he already owns the IP rights to those movies when he bought the DVDs... He would just need to find his local Blockbuster... Oh wait...

 

 

 

[sc302 Veteran]

Don’t know where PLEX is in comparison to ps4.  Imo it is pretty good, but everyone’s eyes and ears are different than mine. 

[+BudMan MVC]

Exactly which is why he needs to take his DVD and pull it off with makemkv and then watch it with plex or dlna on his tv plex app (if possible) via firestick, ps4,  and see if the quality is good enough..

 

Seems he wants to get rid of ps4 so prob not an option.  I would check with quality of tv app or firestick..

 

If quality is good enough for him, then we can move forward and discuss should he compress or not compress what container is best.  Maybe his player does not like mkv for direct play?  And his current box or future box will have to transcode it on the fly or he will want to use say mp4 with ??? as the actual media for best direct play results

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

3 hours ago, BudMan said:

What did you hear that mp4 is smaller than mkv?  That is just nonsense - they are containers not the actual media... What the video or audio bit rate and codex will determine its size etc..  Now are you saying the media in the container is exactly the same?  MKV does have more features that mp4 and supports more - if there is a file size difference its got to be insignificant a few bytes..  With the same exact media inside the container..

Just what I heard from a group in FB. Someone said something along, "Why do you have MKV? MP4 is a smaller file." 

 

I don't really care, as I have MKV, MP4, AVI in my DVD Storage.

 

Just something I heard. I see now that my logic is incorrect. 

[DevTech]

47 minutes ago, BudMan said:

Exactly which is why he needs to take his DVD and pull it off with makemkv and then watch it with plex or dlna on his tv plex app (if possible) via firestick, ps4,  and see if the quality is good enough..

 

Seems he wants to get rid of ps4 so prob not an option.  I would check with quality of tv app or firestick..

 

If quality is good enough for him, then we can move forward and discuss should he compress or not compress what container is best.  Maybe his player does not like mkv for direct play?  And his current box or future box will have to transcode it on the fly or he will want to use say mp4 with ??? as the actual media for best direct play results

But he said that he already viewed his copy he made and the quality was worse.

[DevTech]

I have done some searching and upscale of DVDs to HD is a big giant cluster-xxxx mess.

 

1. Some eyeballs can't see any difference no matter what

 

2. Some people just want annoying black bars to go away and don't mind a pixelated mess if it fills the screen

 

3. Some people think they know tech and post this insanely stupid pronouncement usually very condescendingly:

 

""I don't understand why you bother to do this - upscaling cannot improve the quality of the picture as you cannot add new pixels that didn't exist in the original image."

 

I can't believe how many times I've seen posts similar to that one...

 

4. The noise level is insane, everyone is clueless, all the posts are old from the "DVD era" and false info is everywhere and I want to scream just a little bit...

 

5. I suspect there is a license/patent issue like Dolby because High End Players and High End TVs have specialized chips that handle DVD upscaling very well

 

6. I still haven't located any equivalent PC software to these hardware chips, but just did a "survey" type search so far...

 

 

[DevTech]

Some maybe informative links.

 

First software I found that seems to understand the issues:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DScaler

 

Upscaling is part of "Video Post Processing"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_post-processing

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deblocking_filter

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_denoising

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing

 

Top Ten Most Misunderstood Things About the DVD Format:

 

http://www.lafcpug.org/Tutorials/basic_dvd_extraction.html

 

Before and after pictures (not real time)

 

G Smart DeInterlace

http://www.nattress.com/Products/FinalTouch/FTGSmartDeint.htm

 

Another before and after with more explanations of conversion issues:

 

Compressor 4: Convert SD to HD

https://larryjordan.com/articles/compressor-up-res/

 

"Here’s the final result. The up-scaled image is on the left, the original, enlarged image is on the right. Even when I reduced the size of these images for this article, there is a significant improvement in image quality when converting from SD to HD using Compressor — look at the detail in the beard, in the fabric of his coat, and the skin texture in the image on the left. The difference is stunnngly apparent when viewed at full HD resolution."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DevTech]

So my conclusion so far is that software like PLEX (and I have also looked at UMS, KODI, and Media Portal) will use MPlayer or something based on libffmpeg to do a decode, then de-interlace, then frame rate convert from 24 fps to 60 fps, and pixel scale from SD to HD and then apply a simple soften filter.

 

It seems to me that to get the same processing that high-end TV's have in their specialized chips will require some darned smart shader code in the GPU to do this real time 60 times a second.

 

There is an OSS GPU based codec that I previously linked to (how many pages back?) that might do some good - I will look at the docs to see how it might be tested.

 

[sc302 Veteran]

And that is why PLEX does need a little bit of power behind it esp if you have multiple streams going at the same time.  Single stream might be OK with a RPI but I have not tried it on one.  I used to use a PC for that duty as my main pc never powered off due to different testing that I do during the day when I am at work, however I rarely ever have to utilize that any more and it goes to sleep often.  

 

However, as I stated, what I find acceptable and good quality may not be what you find to be acceptable and good quality.  

[+BudMan MVC]

2 hours ago, Mindovermaster said:

Just what I heard from a group in FB

Well that explains it then

[Technique]

5 hours ago, DevTech said:

4. Which to me means the next step given that he has 500 DVDs is to figure out how to upscale them in a sophisticated manner

 

 

No not really.

 

See a Lambo is nice, a Ferrari is nice, an Aston is nice  ... but i'm perfectly happy driving my everyday 17 year old family car.

 

I said i noticed the difference the PS4 was making and that it is better than watching the DVD without the upscaling however it doesn't make the DVD suddenly unwatchable or painful to watch. I'm not about to run out and buy Blu-Rays of all my DVDs and if upscaling once ripped is a headache in itself then it's probably something i wont bother with.

 

Also the reason i haven't yet pointed Plex at my rip (or one of the reasons really) is because i wanted to have Plex on the TV directly as it'd be easier. I'm not impatient enough to be unable to wait to see if that's possible. Plugging the Amazon Firestick in is a faff in itself. I know you wont understand that but without photos or a video showing you then you simply wont understand, and i prefer not to leave it plugged in anyway so you'll just have to trust me that if i could've done it without the Firestick then i would've.

 

As it stands...

 

 

It turns out the TV route isn't an option but as i mentioned in a previous post - i update the thread with this then others who may have the same TV series as me will at least know the situation.

[+BudMan MVC]

Well use DLNA then - does your TV support DLNA..

 

If you can not plug in the firestick then get a fire cube or an apple tv... or hdmi extension cable to plug the firestick with..

 

What apps does this TV support?  My little tv in the kitchen the roku stick could be seen out the side of the TV so I got a 90 degree adapter adapter.. Problem solved for like $1

 

edit: Ok just looked it was 6$ for a 4 pack.. 2 at 90, and 2 at 270... I one of them on the wall jack for the hdmi line in the kitchen so the cable didn't stick straight out, etc.. They are very useful little adapters for just such an issue.

[sc302 Veteran]

I would get a stick and leave it plugged in, if the firestick works get one and leave it in or get a roku stick or cast from your phone/tablet if you tv supports casting.  

 

If you decide to purchase another streaming player/smart device, they are pretty cheap.  The roku ultra is pretty sweet, albeit expensive.    The roku app is great and works with all current devices.  

[Technique]

The reason is not so much the stick as that's a piece of ssip to put in the TV. It's the mains for it. Due to where the extension lead has to be located and the other plugs in and about it it's an absolute PITA plugging the damn thing in. I'd have to extension out of the extension lead and it just starts getting messy.

 

As for DLNA, that's one of them words i've seen in this thread where my eyes have just glazed over and i've wondered what you guys are saying 😂

 

And for the apps, they're pretty crappy actually. I'll try remember to get a photo later and show you.

[Technique]

6 minutes ago, sc302 said:

I would get a stick and leave it plugged in, if the firestick works get one and leave it in or get a roku stick or cast from your phone/tablet if you tv supports casting.  

 

If you decide to purchase another streaming player/smart device, they are pretty cheap.  The roku ultra is pretty sweet, albeit expensive.    The roku app is great and works with all current devices.  

I prefer not to leave stuff plugged in if they're not going to be used for a while. It's just something i've always done. The stick/mains plug get warm and i dunno i just prefer it to not be in if it's not being used much. Not sure why, just habit.

 

The stick i have is the Amazon FireStick but not the Alexa one, it's the one before that.

[+BudMan MVC]

Mains for what - they can be powered by USB port.. Are you saying this TV doesn't have USB port either?

 

You do know if there is a term used that you do not understand - there is this thing called google   Where you can lookup up more than you could ever want to know about the acronym being used or for that matter just ask..

 

In a nutshell its a way for your device (tv) to find something that can stream the media to it (plex server)

[sc302 Veteran]

 

 

A lot of the sticks run off of usb power, if you have an open usb port on your tv that could be a power source.

Something like this:

 

 

 

[+BudMan MVC]

^ exactly... Then they not on when your TV not on.. Solve both your complaints..

 

I don't like it that way and plug it into the wall for juice because I like it to be on when the tv turns on, not having to wait for it to boot, etc.  But if you don't have power handy they are designed to be run that way..

 

You know another amazing thing they sell is extension cords and power strips for when you need more plugs in in a location but no actual wall plugs there

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

We had our Roku stick plugged into our power strip. When in sleep mode, aka not running, it runs less than 1 cent an YEAR... (I don't know exact cost, but somewhere around there)

[+BudMan MVC]

But they get warm don't you know..

 

I could plug one of mine into my killawatt meter and get you an exact cost for idle for 24 hours.  Are we taking bets on how many kwh it uses in a 24 hour period?  I will do it when I get home

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

5 minutes ago, BudMan said:

But they get warm don't you know..

 

I could plug one of mine into my killawatt meter and get you an exact cost for idle for 24 hours.  Are we taking bets on how many kwh it uses in a 24 hour period?  I will do it when I get home

They get hot when used, not on idle. AFAIK.

 

It doesn't draw THAT much electricity. I swear, you could have a little solar panel on it...

[Technique]

Apps on my TV...

 

[sc302 Veteran]

do you have a file sharing option on one of the screens...I believe that is how you envoke the dlna.

 

 

fyi the "Apps Market" is the apps store...if you didn't before, you could search there for PLEX (probably not there though).  You could also search for a dlna player.  

 

There is nothing stating that there is an "Apps Market" in any literature so I couldn't point you there.

[+BudMan MVC]

This is why you should just use a stick or a box or get a roku tv or fire tv, etc.. These tv makers have zero care for what apps they support or even updating them once they put on one there, etc..

 

I say test it with the fire stick you have... If looks ok then you can get a fire box or decide what other streamer appliance you want - shield tv maybe even...

 

They call the tv smart because it has netflick and amazon and oh wow youtube

 

Your not going to have any sort of idea what your media is going to look like till you actually see it on your TV... We can discuss tech of upscaling and picture quality until the end of days... But until you actually put the picture on your screen your not going to know anything..