VLAN configuration on a "smart" switch for a guest WiFi network


Recommended Posts

So I finally got round to buying a proper access point (Unifi nanoHD), which is capable of having multiple SSIDs, mapped to VLANs.  I have a "smart" switch (TP-Link TL-SG2008), and a PFSense based firewall (SG2220).

 

Assuming that:

1) The AP is connected to the switch on port 1

2) The firewall is connected to port 8

3) There a bunch of other "trusted" devices on the other 6 ports.

4) I want my "trusted" network to run on VLAN 11.

5) I want my "untrusted" network to run on VLAN 99.

 

Is it right that I?

Set up a "trusted" SSID on the AP, which is on VLAN 11.

Set up an "untrusted" SSID on the AP, which is on VLAN 99.

Set up port 1 on my switch to preserve VLANs

Set up port 8 on my switch to preserve VLANs

Set up ports 2 through 6 to tag packets on entry with VLAN 11 and strip VLANs on the way out

 

Does anyone know how to achieve the configuration on my particular switch?

Also what changes do I need to make to pfSense to treat the VLANs as logical interfaces, each with their own subnet, DHCP ranges, internet access and prevent any routing between them?

 

Is there a specific sequence I need to do this all in so I don't lose connectivity to the various components whilst I make the changes?

In your pfsense config, you will want to create your vlans.  What you will do is create a rule to block traffic coming from your guest vlan to your private vlan, it will be able to communicate with all other networks.  

 

You will trunk your vlans on a port (usually you just have to enable trunking, but you can tell it to include those vlans on that trunk port) to the switch.  You will probably have to configure the switch port that is coming from pfsense to trunk.  You will have to configure the switch with the vlan id's that are coming from the pfsense router.  Then you can assign those vlans to ports.  

 

If you have a AP that is vlan capable (**cough** ubiquiti **cough**), you would trunk all of the vlans to that and make your AP default to the private vlan or a management vlan of some sort (so add another vlan for management of devices that can only have source traffic come from your private vlan, another pfsense access control list) to manage networking devices.  Then you can have your AP host both the Guest VLan via a Guest SSID and your Private vlan via Private SSID.

 

 

Draw it out on paper first on how you want things to work.  It will then become clear to you what you have to do and if you will or will not experience an outage.  Understand that you will probably have 1 lan  for internet traffic to go across, 1 lan for house, 1 lan for guest, if any guest or house will need to share devices like printers, another for printers/shared devices, and maybe for the hell of it one for IoT devices.  (fyi, I don't see a way to not have an outage of some sort...you can create the networks and test, but when you move devices over to the new LANs they may have to reboot).

 

  On 24/05/2019 at 19:33, sc302 said:

Draw it out on paper first on how you want things to work.

Expand  

This is very good advice... This will allow you to understand exactly what has to be done, and where.

  On 28/05/2019 at 11:57, sc302 said:

And vlan 2 (or whatever vlan....could be vlan1 but that is just lazy) going between modem and router. Internet traffic isolated on its own vlan to not mix secured from unsecured devices

Expand  

Can you explain that?  Given that the modem is ISP provided, with no control whatsoever in terms of VLANs, how would I achieve this?

The isp goes into the router. Whatever that is it is a Vlan or untrusted network.  This would be an untagged port. If we are treating this as an outside/untrusted network on a firewall/router nothing else is needed to be done.  

  On 28/05/2019 at 15:14, BudMan said:

So both of those vlans are tagged or is one native (untagged) and the other tagged? 

Expand  

Is one of these choices better than the other? If I choose to leave one untagged, would it be the trusted or guest one?

 

  On 28/05/2019 at 15:14, BudMan said:

At the switch and router? 

Expand  

Don't understand this question.

 

The picture is meant to be of what I want to end up with, not what I have right now (single SSID, no tagging at all anywhere)

  On 28/05/2019 at 15:48, Fahim S. said:

The picture is meant to be of what I want to end up with, not what I have right now (single SSID, no tagging at all anywhere)

Expand  

tagging/untagging is how switches work.  an untagged port is an access port.  An access port is an endpoint port where a device on the other end is essentially dumb and doesn't know the difference between tagged and untagged traffic.

 

Tagged is how a trunk works, this allows the port to encapsulate all of the vlans you choose on a single port.  You can have a native vlan (untagged) and several encapsulated vlans (tagged) on a single port that connects to a switch that can decipher this type of traffic (known also as 802.1Q).  

 

For your ap to work, it will have one port.  That one port can support all of the vlans you want to send over to the AP.  You can have the AP on both a tagged and untagged port...the tagged vlan will be the guest vlan and the tagged/untagged vlan will be your secured vlan.  just like in your picture.  

 

You need to understand the terminology, that is all.  If you don't know ask, don't assume that you aren't tagging anywhere, you have to tag for vlans to function across a single port.

 

edit: so you don't get confused, and being that budman has more time with helping, I will let him work with you.  If you get stuck or need simpler explanation please ask.

As to tagged or untagged doesn't matter which... Its just how you set it up.. Its normally more intuitive on say your router where the actual physical interface network is left untagged.  Vs not putting any network on the physical interface, and only enabling vlans that run on that phy interface.

 

As to switch and router, this is where native or untagged vlan will come in to play. For example out of the box on a switch the vlan 1 is untagged. 

 

On your AP if you do not set a vlan for an SSID, then it would be native untagged... And that would be need to be set on the switch port the AP is connected too.  If you tag both SSIDs on AP with vlan IDs then you would have to set them as tagged on the switch port the AP is connected too.

 

On the interface to the router same thing - if you set both as tagged vlans on your router, then they would both have to be tagged on the switch port that connected to your router.

 

On a port that carries more than 1 vlan, only 1 could be untagged (native) all other vlans would have to be TAGGED... Or all of them could be TAGGED... All depends on the device your connecting to that switch port and how its configured for native or all tagged, etc.

 

To be honest I think tag and untagged is what confuses the most new users to vlans.

  On 28/05/2019 at 16:03, sc302 said:

edit: so you don't get confused, and being that budman has more time with helping, I will let him work with you.  If you get stuck or need simpler explanation please ask.

Expand  

Thanks for the offer (I genuinely am grateful), but with the very greatest respect I never find your explanations very "simple".

 

  On 28/05/2019 at 16:21, Fahim S. said:

Thanks for the offer (I genuinely am grateful), but with the very greatest respect I never find your explanations very "simple".

 

Expand  

Interesting, but ok.  I do take great pride to simplify things, but completely understandable.  Everyone has different understanding levels, some people require many different approaches until they finally understand (or think they do). 

  On 28/05/2019 at 16:04, BudMan said:

As to tagged or untagged doesn't matter which... Its just how you set it up.. Its normally more intuitive on say your router where the actual physical interface network is left untagged.  Vs not putting any network on the physical interface, and only enabling vlans that run on that phy interface.

 

As to switch and router, this is where native or untagged vlan will come in to play. For example out of the box on a switch the vlan 1 is untagged. 

 

On your AP if you do not set a vlan for an SSID, then it would be native untagged... And that would be need to be set on the switch port the AP is connected too.  If you tag both SSIDs on AP with vlan IDs then you would have to set them as tagged on the switch port the AP is connected too.

 

On the interface to the router same thing - if you set both as tagged vlans on your router, then they would both have to be tagged on the switch port that connected to your router.

 

On a port that carries more than 1 vlan, only 1 could be untagged (native) all other vlans would have to be TAGGED... Or all of them could be TAGGED... All depends on the device your connecting to that switch port and how its configured for native or all tagged, etc.

 

To be honest I think tag and untagged is what confuses the most new users to vlans.

Expand  

OK... but in my switch I can set a port (on a per VLAN basis) as Untagged, Tagged, or Not Member. I can also give a port a PVID.  The switch doesn't have an option to set a port as an access port or trunk as such. 

 

I am pretty sure that for VLAN 99 I want to set port 1 and 8 as tagged and the others as Not Member. 

 

But what do I do for VLAN 11? Set them all to Tagged? What PVID should they have?

 

 

So if you put a port in vlan 11, and your going to connect a computer to it then that would be untagged 11 with pvid set to 11... This tells the switch when it sees untagged traffic coming into that port that its vlan 11.

 

When you connect say your router that is using untagged (native interface on the router) and you want that as 11, then same thing untagged 11, pvid 11

 

For the vlan 99 which you run on top of that physical interface, on the switch port it would add tagged 99.

 

For your access point same sort of thing.. if you do not put a vlan ID on one of your SSID that would be the untagged and pvid setting, with the other vlan set to tagged.

 

Your running pfsense as your router?  I can show you some screenshots of what I mean by native and vlan on pfsense.

got it.. thank you!

I decided to keep my trusted network untagged and decided that VLAN 100 would be a better choice for guest.

 

OK.. now the pfSense set up...

I set up a VLAN for 100, and then a (sub)-interface for this VLAN

I then set the interface with a static IP (I used 192.168.100.1 /32).  Kept everything else as default.

When I go to add a DHCP server, I don't even see the tab for my Guest network. 

 

Have I done something wrong?

 

  On 28/05/2019 at 17:47, Fahim S. said:

/32).

Expand  

that is wrong!  You prob want /24 which would be 192.168.100.1-254 would be valid IPs on that network.

 

/32 is all 32 bits.. so 192.168.100.1 is the ONLY address.  So can not run a dhcp server on that ;)

  On 28/05/2019 at 17:49, BudMan said:

that is wrong!  You prob want /24 which would be 192.168.100.1-254 would be valid IPs on that network.

Expand  

this is because /32 is a single IP Address and /24 would be a block of IP addresses? I don't understand how that works..

 

OK.. so now I have a DHCP server, giving out addresses 192.168.100.10 through 192.168.100.100.

Now no matter which WiFi network I get on, I can get out to the internet, which is good, but both networks can see devices in the trusted network.

 

How do I stop this?

Ooops...Completely forgot the firewall rules.

 

I added 2 rules.. an allow all, and a deny access to the trusted network, both to the Guest interface.

Do I need to add a similar deny rule to stop the trusted network being able to access the Guest network?

I can reach the pfSense administrative interface through both networks.  192.168.0.1 on the trusted network and 192.168.100.1 on the guest network.

Is there a way to stop access to this UI from the guest network?

Yeah put in a firewall rule to block it ;)

 

Normally on a guest network it would be pretty locked down..

 

Rules are evaluated top down, first rule to trigger wins, no other rules are evaluated... Post up our rules on our guest vlan interface and we can discuss

 

So what do you want to allow and what do you want to block?  If you just don't want clients to access gui.. Then put a rule above the any rule that says block dest lan address port XYZ, where xyz is the ports (or ports) via an alias that your gui is listening on.

 

example, if your gui just running on 80 (http)

example.thumb.png.7803110dc3e73282ac1f4b02f3583b23.png

 

Keep in mind that such rules would allow guest to actually hit your gui via your wan IP..

 

You could do something like this

otherblocks.thumb.png.51b83a10b4f6cb4e0fc82f1f32c02b86.png

 

So you allow guest to "ping" pfsense guest address. So client can validate they have connectivity to the gateway.

 

But then any other access to firewall is blocked - all IPs, lan, guest, optX, wan, etc.. "this firewall" is a drop down option for dest.

 

This would require clients to be using some outside dns - which is what you normally hand "guest" clients anyway - say 8.8.8.8 for example.

 

Or you could allow clients to use pfsense guest IP for dns and ping - but block all other access

icmpdnswlabels.thumb.png.1ae6bbf33a892c38c2084204340339a9.png

 

Given that when I show "test" on my screenshots you would use your "guest" ;)

 

Since this is local network and not public internet you might want to use "reject" vs just block.. This will tell the client F Off!! Vs letting the client keep trying with retrans, waiting and retrans again.. Client will get told instantly sorry blocked!

reject.thumb.png.37dfce04439b8e59d7d29d33953c019a.png

 

While reject is normally good for your local networks.. You would normally not want to reject any blocks you do from the internet.. Just block (drop) them.. Vs sending any sort of response.

 

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • These are the Apple Watch models that support watchOS 26 by Aditya Tiwari Apple has announced the latest operating system upgrade for its smartwatch lineup, called watchOS 26, not watchOS 12, as many expected a while ago. The Cupertino giant has unified the software experience across its platforms by introducing the "Liquid Glass" software design and renaming all the operating systems to version 26. That said, the next question is which Apple Watch models will support watchOS 26. Apple has shared the official list of devices: Apple Watch Ultra 2 Apple Watch Ultra Apple Watch Series 10 Apple Watch Series 9 Apple Watch Series 8 Apple Watch Series 7 Apple Watch Series 6 Apple Watch SE (2nd Generation) The upcoming Apple Watch update brings several new features to your wrist. Liquid Glass design gives a fresh look to the UI with updated Control Center and translucent buttons within apps. It's new Workout Buddy feature can use an Apple Intelligence-enabled iPhone nearby to provide personalized, spoken motivation during workouts. Building on the Double Tap feature, you can now flick your wrist to perform actions like muting incoming calls, silencing timers, and dismissing notifications when your hands are full. It is available on Apple Watch Ultra 2 and Apple Watch Series 9 (or later). watchOS 26 is currently available for testing through the Apple Developer Program. It will roll out to general users during the fall season, when Apple is expected to refresh the Ultra and SE models. Note that your Apple Watch must be paired with an iPhone 11 (or later) or iPhone SE (2nd generation or later) running iOS 26. While the list of Apple Watch models that support watchOS 26 remains the same, it won't work with iPhone Xs/Xs Max and iPhone Xr, which were previously supported on watchOS 11. You can check out the respective lists of supported devices for iOS 26, iPadOS 26, and macOS 26 Tahoe.
    • Galaxy Z Fold7 to be the thinnest and lightest foldable from Samsung by Sagar Naresh Bhavsar A few days ago, Samsung shared an official teaser of their upcoming premium foldable, the Galaxy Z Fold7. Interestingly, the company titled the official post, "Meet the Next Chapter of Ultra," giving birth to a new rumor about a new "Ultra" foldable. The teaser highlighted Galaxy Z Fold7's tall and wide design, which previous rumors have suggested. The Galaxy Z Fold7 is also expected to come with a bigger display compared to the Galaxy Z Fold6. There were also rumors that Samsung could use a titanium backplate for improved durability and also make the device slim. Now, Samsung has shared a new teaser of the Galaxy Z Fold7 that adds a bit a weight to this rumor. Samsung has called the Galaxy Z Fold7 the "thinnest, lightest, and most advanced foldable yet." While the company didn't share any measurements or metrics that would define how thin or light the upcoming foldable is, the GIF shows the Galaxy Z Fold7 from the side (and it appears quite thin). Take a look for yourself: It would be safe to say that Samsung has been lacking in terms of making its foldable devices slim, even reducing the display crease. Though the company launched the Galaxy Z Fold6 Special Edition in China and Korea last year, which was their slimmest phone, it was nowhere near the likes of the OPPO Find N5. In terms of innovation as well, the company is far behind, and Chinese makers such as Huawei have already released the world's first triple-folding phone, the Mate XT. On the positive side, Samsung claimed that their "engineers and designers are refining each generation of the Galaxy Z series to be thinner, lighter, and more durable than the last," suggesting that the company could bring improvements with this year's foldable. The Galaxy Z Fold7 is expected to launch next month, in New York, in the second Unpacked event of the year, alongside the Galaxy Z Flip7. There are also rumors that the affordable version of the flip phone, the Galaxy Z Flip7 FE, could also launch at the event.
    • I think Sequoia will be the last stop for my old 2012 Mac mini (with 16GB RAM & 512MB SSD). It runs Sonoma OK, so perhaps Sequoia will work well too. I don't have high hopes for Tahoe, however - that looks to be a GPU-intense OS.
    • The blobby, bouncy UI effects seem like they would get old really fast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGztGfRujSE
  • Recent Achievements

    • Explorer
      MusicLover2112 went up a rank
      Explorer
    • Dedicated
      MadMung0 earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • Rookie
      CHUNWEI went up a rank
      Rookie
    • Enthusiast
      the420kid went up a rank
      Enthusiast
    • Conversation Starter
      NeoToad777 earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      504
    2. 2
      ATLien_0
      268
    3. 3
      +FloatingFatMan
      257
    4. 4
      Edouard
      202
    5. 5
      snowy owl
      177
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!