Considering a new build

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

I posted this on another site but figured I'd get some opinions here as well.

 

Currently running an i7-4790k with an RTX 2060 and looking to upgrade. Current uses are mainly gaming (and most titles are bit older), a bit of development and other production oriented tasks. Basically its a jack of all trades type of system. Thing is I like to buy for the longer term. Not future proofing, just a setup that will run well for 5 or 6 years. Looking to definitely upgrade to the new NVIDIA 3070 sometime later this year so its down to CPU/MB. Important note is that I do not overclock and will be sticking with mATX.

Option A is an i7 10700k in a Z490 (likely the ASUS Z490 PRIME Plus ) . I know, I can get by with a non-K variant but the clocks are lower so there is no point . The Z490 is simply because I'm a bit skeptical of the VRMs in the H470 boards. I also realize the i5 10600k is a worthy contender but for the longer term, the 8/16 core/thread count of the i7 seems a better bet.

Option B is a Ryzen 3900x in a B550 (likely the MSI B550M MAG Mortar).

Either system will be configured with 32gb of DDR4 3200 ram and a Sabrent 1TB Rocket (that only the AMD system can use to it's full potential). Case is a recycle of my current Case Labs Mercury S5. Cooling would be a Noctua NH-D15 chromax.Black (Intel) or the stock Wraith Prism (AMD).

These two systems will end up being very close in price so that makes it more difficult. Gaming goes to Intel, everything else to AMD. If I did any video production or streaming  it would be a no brainer but I don't so its a draw.

Any thoughts?

[Mockingbird]

AMD is about to release its 4th gen Ryzen processors.

 

I would wait.

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

From what I see, they aren't expected until early October - maybe. The problem then becomes cost as the 4000 series is expected to be priced at release in line with 3000 series release pricing.  That would price the 3900x equivalent almost 150.00 bucks higher than the current i7 price and I've not seen any evidence (or even strong inference) that AMD is going to top Intel at single thread and gaming with the next gen to the extent to justify the price difference. Depending on vendor, that will nearly be the difference between an NVIDIA 3070 and a 3080. Right now with both the i7 and the 3900x below 400 (and pricing favors the i7 right now) things are muddy but at 379.00 (i7) vs 499.00 (AMD) the only thing waiting may do is decidedly push me to stay with Intel. 

 

Look, I can wait or I can buy now. Waiting for the 'next gen' of these types of things is a never ending process that leads to analysis paralysis. There is always something 'better' being released in just a couple of months.   In my case I'd like to make this purchase in the next 7 to 14 days so it boils down to the original two options. 

 

I know you prefer AMD so tell me why? Being honest, I'd normally just go Intel and call it a day. This time around, I'm looking to give team red a good look but honestly my only real justification for considering them is that I may benefit from their core/multithreading performance at some point in the next 5 years. For what I normally do, they do NOT have a clear advantage today but I'm being open to considering them, strongly so for no other reason than to not to reward Intel for excelling in mediocracy. 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

I would personally go with the AMD build. 

 

1) You'll be gaming and potentially doing *other* things.

2) It seems that that the Intel gaming advantage starts to taper off with higher resolutions (obviously depends on title/gaming engine).  I doubt you're gaming at 1080p and contemplating upgrading a very capable 2060 to a 3070.

 

Though at the end of the day ... both the Intel and AMD builds will "run well for 5 or 6 years."

[jnelsoninjax]

Honestly IMHO, going AMD is going to be the better way for you, you get better performance for your buck, and with the money you save going the AMD route will allow you to get the 3000 series Nvida GPU. Also, like @Jim K said, both builds will give you 5 or more years, and I have learned that there truly is no such thing as 'future proofing' when it comes to computer hardware, the market has far too many unknowns to make even an educated guess as to what will happen, so it really comes down to 1) How much you are willing to spend 2) What you are going to use the system for, and 3) Do you want to have the best of the best hardware right now, or can you get something slightly less? Answering those 3 questions should give you a baseline for your new build.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Even if you don't go for the 4000 series it may still be advantageous to wait for them to release in a couple months. once they release there should be more discounts/sales on the 3000 series which is still an excellent lineup and IMO better than what Intel has to offer at the moment.

[Mockingbird]

2 hours ago, Zag L. said:

From what I see, they aren't expected until early October - maybe. The problem then becomes cost as the 4000 series is expected to be priced at release in line with 3000 series release pricing.  That would price the 3900x equivalent almost 150.00 bucks higher than the current i7 price and I've not seen any evidence (or even strong inference) that AMD is going to top Intel at single thread and gaming with the next gen to the extent to justify the price difference. Depending on vendor, that will nearly be the difference between an NVIDIA 3070 and a 3080. Right now with both the i7 and the 3900x below 400 (and pricing favors the i7 right now) things are muddy but at 379.00 (i7) vs 499.00 (AMD) the only thing waiting may do is decidedly push me to stay with Intel. 

AMD is getting rid of the CCX (core complex) in 4th gen Ryzen. There should make a significant difference in gaming performance.

 

...and of cause, there is the matter of increased IPC, in general

 

1 hour ago, jnelsoninjax said:

Honestly IMHO, going AMD is going to be the better way for you, you get better performance for your buck, and with the money you save going the AMD route will allow you to get the 3000 series Nvida GPU. Also, like @Jim K said, both builds will give you 5 or more years, and I have learned that there truly is no such thing as 'future proofing' when it comes to computer hardware, the market has far too many unknowns to make even an educated guess as to what will happen, so it really comes down to 1) How much you are willing to spend 2) What you are going to use the system for, and 3) Do you want to have the best of the best hardware right now, or can you get something slightly less? Answering those 3 questions should give you a baseline for your new build.

I don't agree with that.

 

We already have a general timeline for the products.

 

We already know that the GeForce RTX 3000 series is coming soon.

 

Likewise, we know that 4th gen Ryzen processors are coming soon.

 

We also know that Intel just released 10th gen Core processors.

 

Nobody is saying: "Wait a year or two."

 

2 hours ago, Zag L. said:

I know you prefer AMD so tell me why? Being honest, I'd normally just go Intel and call it a day. This time around, I'm looking to give team red a good look but honestly my only real justification for considering them is that I may benefit from their core/multithreading performance at some point in the next 5 years. For what I normally do, they do NOT have a clear advantage today but I'm being open to considering them, strongly so for no other reason than to not to reward Intel for excelling in mediocracy. 

Well, I was going to say power consumption.

 

Core i7-10900K (8-cores/16-threads) uses more power than a Ryzen 9 3950X (16-cores/32-threads).

 

Now, at this point, you may say, "so what", but remember, all that heat is being dump into your room.

 

Furthermore, you are going to have to invest in a big cooler since Intel didn't include one (AMD includes the Wraith Prism).

 

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

3 hours ago, jnelsoninjax said:

Honestly IMHO, going AMD is going to be the better way for you, you get better performance for your buck, and with the money you save going the AMD route will allow you to get the 3000 series Nvida GPU. Also, like @Jim K said, both builds will give you 5 or more years, and I have learned that there truly is no such thing as 'future proofing' when it comes to computer hardware, the market has far too many unknowns to make even an educated guess as to what will happen, so it really comes down to 1) How much you are willing to spend 2) What you are going to use the system for, and 3) Do you want to have the best of the best hardware right now, or can you get something slightly less? Answering those 3 questions should give you a baseline for your new build.

Not looking to 'future proof'. It doesn't exist. Just looking for something reasonably high end that will carry me to retirement.  As for budget, if I'm considering these class processors w/32 Gb RAM and a 3070, I'd say my budget is ample. The original post outlined my usage. I am gaming heavy (albeit older games) with a little mix of productivity work. Each system has its plusses and minuses and at the current prices all systems are competitively priced. 

 

3 hours ago, Brandon H said:

Even if you don't go for the 4000 series it may still be advantageous to wait for them to release in a couple months. once they release there should be more discounts/sales on the 3000 series which is still an excellent lineup and IMO better than what Intel has to offer at the moment.

I really thought about that myself but my concern was what will availability be of 3900x SKUs as we get closer to the eventual 4000 release. The 3900x is already a very attractive option at $399 and while it could move a bit lower, so could available stock as vendors make room for 4000s.  

 

2 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

Well, I was going to say power consumption.

 

Core i7-10900K (8-cores/16-threads) uses more power than a Ryzen 9 3950X (16-cores/32-threads).

 

Now, at this point, you may say, "so what", but remember, all that heat is being dump into your room.

 

Furthermore, you are going to have to invest in a big cooler since Intel didn't include one (AMD includes the Wraith Prism).

 

 

If I were concerned about overall power consumption I'd never consider Intel in the first place. I keep my residence at 74F (23C) in the summer and 68F (20C) in the winter. I live in a hot climate and have no issue cranking down the AC. Dumping a few more BTU's into that room isn't a concern to me from both temperature or cost.  I use over 2100 KWh a month in the summer so the difference between the two systems for the 10 hours a week the system is in use is irrelevant.    As for the cooler, that's the only thing keeping the prices in line actually. As I noted I'm planning for the  Noctua for the Intel build and relying on the wraith for the AMD. That cost is already factored in. If for some reason the wraith isn't going to  cut it, well that's another hundred bucks I need to move to the AMD column.

 

End of the day, I could easily see myself going down to Microcenter today and grabbing the AMD  components. In fact, its a rather low cost  proposition right now and I'm very much inclined to commit. With the CPU at $399.99 plus a MSI B550M MAG Mortar at $139.99 I walk out at about $585.00.  Could I wait a month or two. Sure I could but at the risk of either not finding a 3900x OR the 4000 series equivalent costing 100 bucks more. I could also just pick up an i5 10600K in that same Z490 board, tweak it a bit and have a 6 core system that has the same gaming performance as the i7 and in some cases the i9 for a bit less (even with the cost of the Noctua factored in). 

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

Made the decision, I'm going team red. Just need to figure out when to buy. Thanks to everyone for their insight. In tge end it was very appreciated.

[adrynalyne]

3 hours ago, Zag L. said:

Made the decision, I'm going team red. Just need to figure out when to buy. Thanks to everyone for their insight. In tge end it was very appreciated.

Beware of Newegg. They have some serious shipping issues coming out of California as of last month. 
 

 

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

3 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Beware of Newegg. They have some serious shipping issues coming out of California as of last month.

Never heard of that.. Every company, even Amazon has trouble from time to time...

 

[adrynalyne]

25 minutes ago, Mindovermaster said:

Never heard of that.. Every company, even Amazon has trouble from time to time...

 

Plenty of others have also mentioned it if you take a look on reddit and they admitted it to me themselves when I reported a lost package worth 3.3k last month.

 

Useful post, did you have something worthwhile to add? Or are you just posting to downplay advice I have given someone so that they can avoid trouble?

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

2 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Plenty of others have also mentioned it if you take a look on reddit and they admitted it to me themselves when I reported a lost package worth 3.3k last month.

 

Useful post.

I'll use Reddit the day they unlock my 3 accounts I made. I just hate their poison.

 

I rarely get anything from their California plant. They usually ship from Indiana, I think it is... Or close to there. Huh...

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

Well, with the exception of the nvme ssd, I'll just be picking the stuff up from microcenter so no shipping for almost anything,

[LaP]

I'd wait 2-3 months for sure. Next nVidia and AMD cards are coming out soon and the new Ryzen cpus too. The computer you'll buy today will like already be outdated in 2 months. I'd definitely go for a Ryzen 4xxx cpu with a b550 motherboard when they will be out later this fall. Probably a nVidia RTX 3xxx card.

 

If you decide not to wait i would definitely go for a b550 motherboard for PCI-E 4. Not really useful now outside of pci-e 4 nvme drives but you never know if you plan to keep as long as your current build it could very well be relevant before you upgrade.

 

Hardware Unboxed made a very good roundup of all the b550 motherboards lately.

Edited August 29, 2020 by LaP

[adrynalyne]

17 minutes ago, LaP said:

I'd wait 2-3 months for sure. Next nVidia and AMD cards are coming out soon and the new Ryzen cpus too. The computer you'll buy today will like already be outdated in 2 months. I'd definitely go for a Ryzen 4xxx cpu with a b550 motherboard when they will be out later this fall. Probably a nVidia RTX 3xxx card.

 

If you decide not to wait i would definitely go for a b550 motherboard for PCI-E 4. Not really useful now outside of pci-e 4 nvme drives but you never know if you plan to keep as long as your current build it could very well be relevant before you upgrade.

 

Hardware Unboxed made a very good roundup of all the b550 motherboards lately.

I’d go x570 over b550. 
 

Well not would, did. 

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

14 hours ago, LaP said:

I'd wait 2-3 months for sure. Next nVidia and AMD cards are coming out soon and the new Ryzen cpus too. The computer you'll buy today will like already be outdated in 2 months. I'd definitely go for a Ryzen 4xxx cpu with a b550 motherboard when they will be out later this fall. Probably a nVidia RTX 3xxx card.

 

If you decide not to wait i would definitely go for a b550 motherboard for PCI-E 4. Not really useful now outside of pci-e 4 nvme drives but you never know if you plan to keep as long as your current build it could very well be relevant before you upgrade.

 

Hardware Unboxed made a very good roundup of all the b550 motherboards lately.

As stated in the original post, the motherboard choice is the MSI B550M MAG Mortar to take advantage of the Sabrent Rocket NVME PCIE4 SSD and the Ampere 3070 (which may release Monday). Only thing I don't like about this board is the lack of USB on the rear I/O.  Waiting for the 4000 series will certainly increase the build cost with an unknown level of benefit. Getting an AM4 socket will let me drop in a 4000 series a year or two down the road if my needs change and would benefit from what the 4000 series offer. This is actually one of the more prominent reasons for AMD over Intel for me. The 1200 socket is at the end of the road. 

14 hours ago, adrynalyne said:

I’d go x570 over b550. 
 

Well not would, did. 

@adrynalyne why do you say that? I just don't see any advantage for my usage on any of the very few x570s I could find.  I did mention in the OP that the case is a Caselabs Mercury S5 so I'm limited to mATX or mini ITX and these form factors appear to have almost no x570 support. I did look at the ASUS B550-I ROG Strix but as a mini ITX, it only has one full length PCIE slot and one m.2 slot.  Spending $100 more for a motherboard that offers no apparent advantages doesn't make a compelling argument for me to consider. That said, convince me. Everyone in this thread has  stated why they suggested what they did and as a result, I'll be moving away from Intel for the first time since my first 8088 PC clone. What advantage am I missing out on by choosing of the handful of x570 

[adrynalyne]

11 hours ago, Zag L. said:

As stated in the original post, the motherboard choice is the MSI B550M MAG Mortar to take advantage of the Sabrent Rocket NVME PCIE4 SSD and the Ampere 3070 (which may release Monday). Only thing I don't like about this board is the lack of USB on the rear I/O.  Waiting for the 4000 series will certainly increase the build cost with an unknown level of benefit. Getting an AM4 socket will let me drop in a 4000 series a year or two down the road if my needs change and would benefit from what the 4000 series offer. This is actually one of the more prominent reasons for AMD over Intel for me. The 1200 socket is at the end of the road. 

@adrynalyne why do you say that? I just don't see any advantage for my usage on any of the very few x570s I could find.  I did mention in the OP that the case is a Caselabs Mercury S5 so I'm limited to mATX or mini ITX and these form factors appear to have almost no x570 support. I did look at the ASUS B550-I ROG Strix but as a mini ITX, it only has one full length PCIE slot and one m.2 slot.  Spending $100 more for a motherboard that offers no apparent advantages doesn't make a compelling argument for me to consider. That said, convince me. Everyone in this thread has  stated why they suggested what they did and as a result, I'll be moving away from Intel for the first time since my first 8088 PC clone. What advantage am I missing out on by choosing of the handful of x570 

More PCI express lanes as well as more (faster) USB port support than B550. If you don’t have a use for those then disregard my thoughts on it. 🙂