Microsoft should stop with this charade and make Windows 11 a paid upgrade

[Mockingbird]

I get it, Microsoft wants to make money.

 

This new system requirements to get people to buy new PCs is ridiculous.

 

Microsoft should drop this charade and make Windows 11 a paid upgrade.

[xrobwx71]

That would add cost to an already expensive endevour for most.  Plus, most already have the TPM function it simply needs to be turned on in the BIOS/UEFI. 

 

Even if they did make it a paid upgrade, what makes one think they would drop the requirments?

[adrynalyne]

This doesn’t even make sense. 

[Mockingbird]

8 minutes ago, xrobwx71 said:

That would add cost to an already expensive endevour for most.  Plus, most already have the TPM function it simply needs to be turned on in the BIOS/UEFI. 

1. It's not just TPM that is required, but TPM 2.0. (Microsoft has updated the requirements).

 

2. Even if it can be turned on in the BIOS, the layman would have trouble figuring out how to go into the BIOS and turn it on. 

 

3. There is also a processor support list that excludes anything older than 8th gen Intel Core and 2nd gen AMD Ryzen

 

8 minutes ago, xrobwx71 said:

Even if they did make it a paid upgrade, what makes one think they would drop the requirments?

...because MSFT already got the people's money

5 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

This doesn’t even make sense. 

Which part do you not understand?

[adrynalyne]

25 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

1. It's not just TPM that is required, but TPM 2.0. (Microsoft has updated the requirements).

 

2. Even if it can be turned on in the BIOS, the layman would have trouble figuring out how to go into the BIOS and turn it on. 

 

...because MSFT already got the people's money

Which part do you not understand?

All of it. 
 

1. TPM 2.0 has existed since 2016.

2. Mainstream OEM users that have TPM 2.0 support had it enabled by default from the OEM. 

Even when Windows was a paid upgrade, it wasn’t a big moneymaker for them. Before Windows 10, the most common method of people upgrading their OS was via a new purchase. If Windows 10 hadn’t been forced on people, it would be the same scenario as the upgrade to Windows 11 is shaping up to be for some. However, because TPM 2.0 has been out for 5 years, it’s going to be less a purchase spree than pre Windows 10. 
 

 

So in short, you missed the Forrest for the trees. 

[Mockingbird]

10 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

All of it. 
 

1. TPM 2.0 has existed since 2016.

2. Mainstream OEM users that have TPM 2.0 support had it enabled by default from the OEM. 

Even when Windows was a paid upgrade, it wasn’t a big moneymaker for them. Before Windows 10, the most common method of people upgrading their OS was via a new purchase. If Windows 10 hadn’t been forced on people, it would be the same scenario as the upgrade to Windows 11 is shaping up to be for some. However, because TPM 2.0 has been out for 5 years, it’s going to be less a purchase spree than pre Windows 10. 
 

 

So in short, you missed Forrest for the trees. 

1. Certified Windows 10 PCs are required to have TPM, but not necessary turned on be default.

 

2. Even if the processor has built in TPM, it doesn't mean that the motherboard supports the feature or that it can be turned on.

 

3. Even if TPM is present and can be turned on, it might be disabled by default, and the layman would have trouble turning it on.

 

 

[George P Global Moderator]

As far as the CPU list goes, I expect that will be expanded due to user complaints.  No reason a 7th or 6th gen, let alone even older quad core CPUs, can't run Windows 11.   I figure on the CPU side you'll be able to install/upgrade to 11 just fine, it'll just complain to you probably.   The TPM chip is another matter.  Personally my 6th gen skylake should support PTT/fTPM but my board maker doesn't give me the option to use it at all.   

 

Some of their higher end Z170 boards seem to give users the option though so I guess I got screwed without actually knowing it at the time.  

 

Regardless, even the TPM bit might be something you can skip and just upgrade and not get support for bitlocker and Windows Hello etc.    

 

They're not going to stop doing these free upgrades for users though, they only gain from it and don't lose anything.  Besides 11 is going to a single feature update a year again instead of 2 for Windows 10,  something a number of users would prefer.

[adrynalyne]

1 hour ago, Mockingbird said:

1. Certified Windows 10 PCs are required to have TPM, but not necessary turned on be default.

 

2. Even if the processor has built in TPM, it doesn't mean that the motherboard supports the feature or that it can be turned on.

 

3. Even if TPM is present and can be turned on, it might be disabled by default, and the layman would have trouble turning it on.

 

 

You seem to have completely glossed over what I said. Hint: mainstream OEM machines are certified. I’ve yet to see one that supported TPM have it turned off. 

[jasonfc]

there is Tmp 2.0 in 6th  gen intel  and uefi also

[Mockingbird]

1 hour ago, jasonfc said:

there is Tmp 2.0 in 6th  gen intel  and uefi also

That doesn't mean that the motherboard actually supports turning it on though.

[zhangm Supervisor]

I'm more in favor of it being free to upgrade for people at least with relatively modern to somewhat aged hardware versus being a pay-to-upgrade for everyone.

[JaredFrost]

12 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

1. It's not just TPM that is required, but TPM 2.0. (Microsoft has updated the requirements).

 

2. Even if it can be turned on in the BIOS, the layman would have trouble figuring out how to go into the BIOS and turn it on. 

 

3. There is also a processor support list that excludes anything older than 8th gen Intel Core and 2nd gen AMD Ryzen

 

...because MSFT already got the people's money

Which part do you not understand?

1.

My understanding is 2.0 was a soft limit, 1.2 was a hard limit, meaning at least 1.2 is required if it's not 2.0 you get a warning but it'll still work, 2.0 is preferred though, maybe my understanding is wrong.

 

2.

True, but the layman would generally have an OEM machine, and those are enabled by default.

 

3.

You may be overreacting a bit, it's possible Microsoft are learning from the gong show release of Windows 10 2004, and 1909, and 1903..  It's possible they're limiting hardware at first, also, my CPU is 7th gen, it is not on the supported CPU list but if I run their little compatibility checker tool it says I am all good to run Windows 11, so maybe just wait and see what happens, sure I'll be slightly annoyed if Windows 11 wont work on my PC, but no one ever said it would did they and Windows 10 will be supported until 2025 or something.

 

 

I can understand why they don't understand your first post, it does seem pointless, and comes off purely as an entitled rant about Windows 11 possibly not working on your existing hardware.

Also, Windows 11 WILL be a paid product, if you're starting from nothing, otherwise the upgrade path is free.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by JaredFrost

[BimBamSmash]

There'd be more success in getting people on board if they made optional in the short-run whatever feature(s) it is that they are adding to Windows 11 that has caused this huge bump in the minimum requirements. Considering how reluctant most users were when Windows 10 landed (even though there weren't any major hardware barriers then), I don't think there'd be a welcome wagon of any kind waiting for Windows 11 if most people are going to need to buy a new PC just to get that OS fired up.

[George P Global Moderator]

2 hours ago, BimBamSmash said:

There'd be more success in getting people on board if they made optional in the short-run whatever feature(s) it is that they are adding to Windows 11 that has caused this huge bump in the minimum requirements. Considering how reluctant most users were when Windows 10 landed (even though there weren't any major hardware barriers then), I don't think there'd be a welcome wagon of any kind waiting for Windows 11 if most people are going to need to buy a new PC just to get that OS fired up.

They'll tell you it's all security related.   8th gen Intel and newer CPUs might have something 7th and 6th etc don't on the security side, or microcode fixes to bugs/flaws like meltdown etc.   If MS was going to do this they should have released a detail blog post about why, but I think they will.

 

The problem is that they released the hardware requirements without any more info.  They should've waited until the first official insider build of 11 comes out and it's detailed docs along with releasing the hardware requirements.

 

As it stands they're going to have to deal with days of backlash because of this.   Even if they had some valid reasons you're not going to please everyone with them.    Lots of 6th and 7th gen systems on the intel side are more than capable of running the OS performance wise.    

[xrobwx71]

 

Quote

1. It's not just TPM that is required, but TPM 2.0. (Microsoft has updated the requirements).

Explain how MS charging for the upgrade would change this?

 

Quote

2. Even if it can be turned on in the BIOS, the layman would have trouble figuring out how to go into the BIOS and turn it on. 

Most layman can read and follow simple instruction.

 

Quote

. There is also a processor support list that excludes anything older than 8th gen Intel Core and 2nd gen AMD Ryzen

Again, explain how this changes whether MS charges or not.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

I'm holding off any real opinion until 11 is released with respect to system requirements as they can change between now and then.

 

However, I'm not sure what one thing has to do with the other...are you implying that if it were a paid upgrade they would drop this TPM "requirement"?  

 

 

[Guest]

So rather than allow people who already have Windows 11 compatible PC's have a free upgrade and give others the chance to upgrade over 5 years, you want everyone to pay for it?

[adrynalyne]

1 hour ago, Jim K said:

I'm holding off any real opinion until 11 is released with respect to system requirements as they can change between now and then.

 

However, I'm not sure what one thing has to do with the other...are you implying that if it were a paid upgrade they would drop this TPM "requirement"?  

 

 

He thinks that this is all a conspiracy for MS to get more people to buy new PCs so that they get more money from Windows (OEMs roll it into the cost of machine). 
 

Silly IMO. 

[Astra.Xtreme]

This "should" come off as obvious, but there are advantages for Microsoft if there is a high transition rate to the new OS platform.  Making the upgrade paid will result in an extremely slow transition.  The more people on the new platform, the more telemetry data they gather, more bug reports they'll receive, meaning the platform gets better faster.  There is less liability and security concerns if people abandon old platforms.  Making it paid would hardly move needle on their revenue model anyway.  The TPM requirement is already going to p*ss people off, so why push them even faster over to Apple?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Astra.Xtreme said:

This "should" come off as obvious, but there are advantages for Microsoft if there is a high transition rate to the new OS platform.  Making the upgrade paid will result in an extremely slow transition.  The more people on the new platform, the more telemetry data they gather, more bug reports they'll receive, meaning the platform gets better faster.  There is less liability and security concerns if people abandon old platforms.  Making it paid would hardly move needle on their revenue model anyway.  The TPM requirement is already going to p*ss people off, so why push them even faster over to Apple?

I think moving over to Apple is a counterintuitive thing to do with the situation at hand, They've had 2 major architecture changes in the last 20 years, this is the first time that comes to mind where it's like... You really might have to look at upgrading your hardware (that could otherwise be fine) for Windows 11.

 

Also, seeing as you're paying for a new Mac, why not just buy a PC as required anyway? The only reason you would is principle, but I'll refer you back to my first point if you think you'd be safe from something like this if you got a Mac.

 

I legit think they're doing this for a good reason, but I don't expect everyone to be happy about it.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

On 26/06/2021 at 16:25, Mockingbird said:

I get it, Microsoft wants to make money.

 

This new system requirements to get people to buy new PCs is ridiculous.

 

Microsoft should drop this charade and make Windows 11 a paid upgrade.

That's not why the requirement is there.

On 26/06/2021 at 16:48, Mockingbird said:

1. It's not just TPM that is required, but TPM 2.0. (Microsoft has updated the requirements).

 

2. Even if it can be turned on in the BIOS, the layman would have trouble figuring out how to go into the BIOS and turn it on. 

 

3. There is also a processor support list that excludes anything older than 8th gen Intel Core and 2nd gen AMD Ryzen

To your first and third point, it has already been shown that 2.0 isn't a definite requirement. By extension that means that the processor support list could change as well.

 

For the point about the layman, remember that at this stage Windows 11 isn't being released to the layman. For the moment it is only available to those people that feel they absolutely have to try it, which makes them enthusiasts that should know what they are doing to make it work. Then it will become available to those on the insider ring, which again would mean they must be willing to do what is necessary to get it to work if they want to play around with it. When it finally becomes available to the average user, I'm willing to bet that there will be something in the upgrade process that will do things like enabling the TPM for those that have it but don't have it enabled. Anything to make the upgrade process as simple as possible for the layman.

 

EDIT: To answer the title of the thread, making Windows 11 a paid update will not change the requirements of the OS.

[Gotenks98]

I feel the TPM requirement should only be for Enterprise as this does almost nothing for the home user besides cause issues down the road if they need data recovery. Looks like we will just have to hold out for Windows 12 or Windows 11.1.

[adrynalyne]

19 minutes ago, Gotenks98 said:

I feel the TPM requirement should only be for Enterprise as this does almost nothing for the home user besides cause issues down the road if they need data recovery. Looks like we will just have to hold out for Windows 12 or Windows 11.1.

Why would it cause issues for data recovery for a home user?

[Gotenks98]

33 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

Why would it cause issues for data recovery for a home user?

If they force bitlocker on everyone and the user is careless with the keys and does not know how to retrieve them I can see this being an issue. The average user isn't going to know how bitlocker works and won't save the keyes.

[adrynalyne]

8 minutes ago, Gotenks98 said:

If they force bitlocker on everyone and the user is careless with the keys and does not know how to retrieve them I can see this being an issue. The average user isn't going to know how bitlocker works and won't save the keyes.

They aren’t going to force bitlocker on anyone.