Microsoft should stop with this charade and make Windows 11 a paid upgrade

[Mockingbird]

2 minutes ago, adrynalyne said:

And that is exactly where you lost the plot.

 

MS is heavily emphasizing security. They don't want people to need to turn it off for performance issues, it is counterproductive.

Is running a previous version of Windows with the featured turned off any safer?

[Nick H. Supervisor]

23 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

...and why is this any relevant? The option is there. It doesn't matter if they upgrade or not.

What?! You've just scuppered your own argument there. You are saying that this requirement is because Microsoft want to make money, and you then suggest that they make it a paid upgrade instead so that they can still make money. And in that last sentence you've just destroyed your own argument by saying that it wouldn't matter if people upgraded or not.

 

Look, I get it. You are annoyed because your own computer won't run Windows 11 with the current requirements. That's fine, it's ok to be annoyed about that. But what I'm not letting pass is the attempt to make up some conspiracy about why Microsoft have made the decisions that they have made.

23 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Okay, so why is it there?

The requirements are there for support and security purposes!

 

We're going round in circles here, and it's starting to hurt my head.

[Mockingbird]

38 minutes ago, Nick H. said:

What?! You've just scuppered your own argument there. You are saying that this requirement is because Microsoft want to make money, and you then suggest that they make it a paid upgrade instead so that they can still make money. And in that last sentence you've just destroyed your own argument by saying that it wouldn't matter if people upgraded or not.

You clearly don't understand what I said.

 

Your argument was that many people simply won't upgrade Windows if the upgrade isn't free and I didn't disagree with that.

 

What I said is that, it doesn't matter because Microsoft wasn't going make money from these people anyway,

 

...then there are the people who would pay to upgrade Windows if the upgrade isn't free

 

38 minutes ago, Nick H. said:

Look, I get it. You are annoyed because your own computer won't run Windows 11 with the current requirements. That's fine, it's ok to be annoyed about that. But what I'm not letting pass is the attempt to make up some conspiracy about why Microsoft have made the decisions that they have made.

The requirements are there for support and security purposes!

 

We're going round in circles here, and it's starting to hurt my head.

It's not "some conspiracy".

 

Microsoft, like most for-profit companies are out there, are motivated by cold hard case.

 

That's why these companies exist.

[+Warwagon MVC]

1 minute ago, Mockingbird said:

You clearly don't understand what I said.

 

Your argument was that many people simply won't upgrade Windows if the upgrade isn't free and I didn't disagree with that.

 

Have you ever been around the average user? I have, while running my computer repair business for the last 20 years. I can tell you that MOST are not going to go out and buy a windows 11 upgrade. Most even have no clue what they are currently running for an OS and don't care.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

14 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

It's not "some conspiracy".

The conspiracy is your original argument, which was that Microsoft have put these requirements in place in order to make money. That is categorically false, and myself and others have tried to explain that to you for 5 pages now.

[Mockingbird]

57 minutes ago, Nick H. said:

The conspiracy is your original argument, which was that Microsoft have put these requirements in place in order to make money. That is categorically false, and myself and others have tried to explain that to you for 5 pages now.

Can you truly say that Windows 11 would run better on the Coffee Lake 2C/2T Celeron G4900T than on the Kaby Lake 4C/8T Core i7-7700K?

 

After all, Microsoft said that the former meets the requirements for Windows 11 while the latter doesn't.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

2 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Can you truly say that Windows 11 would run better on the Coffee Lake 2C/2T Celeron G4900T than on the Kaby Lake 4C/8T Core i7-7700K?

No, I can't. Be then again, neither can you. We don't have their version of Windows 11, and we don't have both processors to run performance tests with.

[fusi0n]

On 06/07/2021 at 00:16, Mockingbird said:

Can you really say with a straight face that Windows 11 would run better on the Coffee Lake 2C/2T Celeron G4900T (which Windows 11 supports) than on the Kaby Lake 4C/8T Core i7-7700K (which Windows 11 doesn't support)?

You really don't get it or understand how any of this works. It isn't about high end CPU vs low end CPU, FAST cpu vs SLOW cpu... it's about architectures and frameworks. I'm not even going to debate this with you. You have very limited understanding how things work. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but someone needed to. 

[adrynalyne]

4 hours ago, fusi0n said:

You really don't get it or understand how any of this works. It isn't about high end CPU vs low end CPU, FAST cpu vs SLOW cpu... it's about architectures and frameworks. I'm not even going to debate this with you. You have very limited understanding how things work. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but someone needed to. 

I don't really have anything to add; what you said bears being repeated.

[revodo]

On 07/07/2021 at 09:30, adrynalyne said:

Can you specifically identify what its sending? An example? Anything at all?

 

This is all too often a criticism of MS, but I've yet to see anyone pull up what the data actually is.

 

 

Is Windows open source?

If not, then that statement is the usual cop-out argument. You know Windows is not open source, therefore anything anyone knows is going to be by admission of the company. It's literally the same thing as saying the CIA hasn't done (example A, example B) because people outside of the CIA can't prove it, except we know they've done extremely similar (example A, example B) things in the past by their own admission or small, previous screw ups.

 

Remember when all the tin foil hat people were mocked relentlessly for saying the government was spying on citizens? Edward Snowden says hello.

[adrynalyne]

26 minutes ago, revodo said:

Is Windows open source?

If not, then that statement is the usual cop-out argument. You know Windows is not open source, therefore anything anyone knows is going to be by admission of the company. It's literally the same thing as saying the CIA hasn't done (example A, example B) because people outside of the CIA can't prove it, except we know they've done extremely similar (example A, example B) things in the past by their own admission or small, previous screw ups.

 

Remember when all the tin foil hat people were mocked relentlessly for saying the government was spying on citizens? Edward Snowden says hello.

No the cop out is ermagherd, my privacy! when you don’t know if it’s more than diagnostic telemetry to improve the OS. If you have evidence otherwise, present it. Snowden did. Time to step up. 
 

Remember reading in history when science was called magic because they didn’t understand what was happening? Same premise. 

[Nick H. Supervisor]

<Thread cleaned>

 

I've removed the most recent posts because you're attacking one another and taking it off-topic. Let's stick to the point.

[neufuse Veteran]

On 28/06/2021 at 12:32, Gotenks98 said:

Then why require TPM then if you not going to use bitlocker? If I had the money I would make that bet. I have kids and they take up all the money.

you do know TPM's are used for more than bitlocker right?.... Outlook makes use of them if you have them, other programs make use of them to get secure code generation also... a TPM also provides Key protection, Dictionary attack protection can be used as a virtual smart card, can be used with windows hello for the attestation identity key, system health attestation, credential guarding all in addition to BitLocker.... Windows 11 want's it for hello and system guarding... not forcing bitlocker on people

[revodo]

On 10/07/2021 at 15:45, Nick H. said:

<Thread cleaned>

 

I've removed the most recent posts because you're attacking one another and taking it off-topic. Let's stick to the point.

Oh I don't know, I was quite enjoying it. Almost broke out the cheap liquor and premium cigarettes.

[Gotenks98]

On 10/07/2021 at 17:04, neufuse said:

you do know TPM's are used for more than bitlocker right?.... Outlook makes use of them if you have them, other programs make use of them to get secure code generation also... a TPM also provides Key protection, Dictionary attack protection can be used as a virtual smart card, can be used with windows hello for the attestation identity key, system health attestation, credential guarding all in addition to BitLocker.... Windows 11 want's it for hello and system guarding... not forcing bitlocker on people

All of that you mention isn't going to be something the home user will be concerned about. People are going to take the path of least resistance, like putting the password on a sticky note next to the computer or under the keyboard. Tech geeks like us would use the features but the average person won't give this a chance at all, which makes it pointless. 

[Steven P. Administrators]

25 minutes ago, Gotenks98 said:

 People are going to take the path of least resistance, like putting the password on a sticky note next to the computer or under the keyboard. 

Every drama TV series from the 50's to the early 90's: "car keys in the sun visor ..."  

[neufuse Veteran]

1 hour ago, Gotenks98 said:

All of that you mention isn't going to be something the home user will be concerned about. People are going to take the path of least resistance, like putting the password on a sticky note next to the computer or under the keyboard. Tech geeks like us would use the features but the average person won't give this a chance at all, which makes it pointless. 

the home user isn't concerned about anything a TPM chip does neither are they with what the apple T1/T2 security chip does (which has similar functionality to a TPM plus some)... point is it does a lot behind the scenes to make sure stuff stays secure in a way you shouldn't have to think about it... Secure Enclaves like TPM  / T1 / T2 have a purpose and should be on every device at this point

 

this has nothing to do with passwords and sticky notes or if someone is a techy or not

 

MS is making the OS use these in the background in ways that an average user will be using them without even knowing to secure data, no user intervention or setup will be needed it will just do it as part of the OS and programs running...

Edited July 12, 2021 by neufuse

[Arceles]

Yeah yeah, but whenever they get the chance they will use to enforce DRM, normal users do not care. I do.

So no, windows 10 is the last OS for me, it was about time I retired myself from computer support anyway. Ubuntu will be all I will recommend from here onwards.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

On 26/06/2021 at 17:12, adrynalyne said:

... If Windows 10 hadn’t been forced on people...

It wasn't forced on people... nobody HAD to upgrade.

People chose it as the better option.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

It's a shame really.

 

The amount of people who seem to be able to see into the future in this thread is astounding.

 

People keep pin numbers and passwords relatively safe.  Why wouldn't they keep a BitLocker pin safe too?

I'm sure there will be hundreds of YouTube videos on how to turn on TPM - for those that need it.

 

I mean... while you're predicting the future (for what gain?), please tell us next weeks lottery numbers.

 

On a side note... in another part of the world, loads of people were suggesting a new type of train would cause delays as it only had one set of doors per coach.  The doors are wider than trains that have come before in the UK.  What do you know... 12 months later and there have been ZERO reports of trains being delayed due to passengers getting on and off the trains.  Ergo, those people who "saw the future" did not see it very well.  Nope nope nope, not at all.

[adrynalyne]

On 23/08/2021 at 11:34, Sir Topham Hatt said:

It wasn't forced on people... nobody HAD to upgrade.

People chose it as the better option.

Public perception says otherwise. There was a period in time where it would automatically download and people not reading the prompts would get upgraded. There was a huge stink about it because so many had issues with it. 

[olavinto]

On 23/08/2021 at 22:06, adrynalyne said:

Public perception says otherwise. There was a period in time where it would automatically download and people not reading the prompts would get upgraded. There was a huge stink about it because so many had issues with it. 

Yeah, well there were prompts. People can read and they should. Some people would still use Windows 98 if it would work and in my opinion it is fine to offer and even push a new software version to every user as long as they get a prompt and are offered an explanation about it. If they can't stop for a few moments and read what is in front of them, then it is their problem if they let the process continue. How the notifications are presented is a different topic and there are always those who do not get the message. It is difficult to keep them simple, short and non technical enough. Usually at least one of these fails.

Edited August 23, 2021 by olavinto

[adrynalyne]

On 23/08/2021 at 12:18, olavinto said:

Yeah, well there were prompts. People can read and they should. Some people would still use Windows 98 if it would work and in my opinion it is fine to offer and even push a new software version to every user as long as they get a prompt and are offered an explanation about it. If they can't stop for a few moments and read what is in front of them, then it is their problem if they let the process continue. How the notifications are presented is a different topic and there are always those who do not get the message. It is difficult to keep them simple, short and non technical enough. Usually at least one of these occurs.

I don’t disagree. However, it did have a profound effect in Windows 10 being installed where normally it would not. That was the only point I was making.

[SidVicious]

On 07/07/2021 at 11:57, warwagon said:

It's funny, they always ask me "How can I tell".

 

in my mind i'm always thinking to my self "Just look at the god damn screen" ... thinking everyone can tell just by looking at the UI like we can.

It's like when you say: "Check the control panel"...and then they look at the buttons on the PC case.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

On 09/07/2021 at 15:13, revodo said:

Remember when all the tin foil hat people were mocked relentlessly for saying the government was spying on citizens? Edward Snowden says hello.

To be fair, they can spy on me...  my browsing on the internet is quite boring.

If they catch me with anything illegal, they can't do anything as that would be admitting they are spying, which they're trying not to do 😛