What if we ever actually stop existing?

[Steven P. Administrators]

Nobody understands life because we can't prove what's beyond it.

But if we take what we know about the universe as an example, in which nothing is wasted and dying suns and solar systems are repurposed for new, nothing is wasted and everything is reused. If we applied the same logic to life, then it makes sense to assume that when the life ends the energy or entity from it that we can't measure or understand is repurposed.

Reincarnation doesn't make sense to me because you'd have a fixed number of souls reincarnating, yet the world population keeps expanding, from which souls did the extra billions reincarnate? Religion does not have the answer to life, it simply tries to place a narrative on it.

Personally I think that when we step out of this life we're thrust into a new one immediately and the question is, why would it have to be another human male (in my case) could it be an ant, another living thing, a tree?

Not knowing is also frustrating.

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 28/02/2023 at 01:46, Steven P. said:

Personally I think that when we step out of this life we're thrust into a new one immediately 

What led you to that belief?

"it makes sense to assume that when the life ends the energy or entity from it that we can't measure or understand"

Why does it make sense? There is no evidence of a spirit or life force.

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 27/02/2023 at 16:16, foolsfolly said:

What led you to that belief?

Because of what science tells us how the universe works, in that nothing is ever wasted or "dies" it (all of the atoms) is immediately repurposed.

That is on the grandest scale in our comprehension.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

We all stop existing at some point. Regardless of beliefs, there is going to be one day where you stop moving and people will mourn or celebrate that idea.

What happens after that? Some people say they remember past lifes, others say that they believe they will have future lives without any knowledge of what they were doing before.

I can't say that I remember anything previous to this life. So I think that we have this and that is it. I will die, and while my body wiill decay and become something else it won't become me. I am me, here and now.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I'm a firm believer of the quantum multi-verse theory.

I do believe there are multiple time streams and branches and when we die it's likely our energy is dispersed between multiple parallel lines. So in this sense it could make sense that you could have a sense of past life, if you have a bigger chunk of said dispersed energy from any one individual; and why the memories don't always line up with how things would have been in your present world.

this next part could be quite controversial for religious. concepts such as heaven/hell could easily be different time streams or even just the collective unconscious of energy coming together before it disperses again for new life.

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 28/02/2023 at 02:27, Nick H. said:

We all stop existing at some point. Regardless of beliefs, there is going to be one day where you stop moving and people will mourn or celebrate that idea.

What happens after that? Some people say they remember past lifes, others say that they believe they will have future lives without any knowledge of what they were doing before.

I can't say that I remember anything previous to this life. So I think that we have this and that is it. I will die, and while my body wiill decay and become something else it won't become me. I am me, here and now.

These agonizing questions that we all ponder at some point in our lives are partly what led humans to invent God's and religion.

 

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 28/02/2023 at 02:19, Steven P. said:

Because of what science tells us how the universe works, in that nothing is ever wasted or "dies" it (all of the atoms) is immediately repurposed.

That is on the grandest scale in our comprehension.

I mean no offense Steven but that is a very simplistic view of matter never being wasted. 

[+Biscuits Brown MVC]

On 27/02/2023 at 09:19, Steven P. said:

Because of what science tells us how the universe works, in that nothing is ever wasted or "dies" it (all of the atoms) is immediately repurposed.

That is on the grandest scale in our comprehension.

Well, I believe based the current cosmological theories that we simply break down into our base carbon based components and become absorbed into the earth - we decay. There is no 'energy' to go anywhere. We are just carbon based 'things'. When our sun eventually expands to engulf the earth, the elements that make up the earth are then 'recycled' as elements in the sun. When our sun eventually collapses into a dwarf white star if will have shed great quantities of carbon back into space (some of which will be from you and me).  

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 28/02/2023 at 02:28, Brandon H said:

I'm a firm believer of the quantum multi-verse theory.

I do believe there are multiple time streams and branches and when we die it's likely our energy is dispersed between multiple parallel lines. So in this sense it could make sense that you could have a sense of past life, if you have a bigger chunk of said dispersed energy from any one individual; and why the memories don't always line up with how things would have been in your present world.

this next part could be quite controversial for religious. concepts such as heaven/hell could easily be different time streams or even just the collective unconscious of energy coming together before it disperses again for new life.

Come now. How can you be a 'firm believer' in the multiverse? It's pure hypothetical at this point and has several heavy hitters in the science community unconvinced.

The time to be a 'firm believer' is when the evidence is there to support it.

 

On 28/02/2023 at 02:37, Biscuits Brown said:

Well, I believe based the current cosmological theories that we simply break down into our base carbon based components and become absorbed into the earth - we decay. There is no 'energy' to go anywhere. We are just carbon based 'things'. When our sun eventually expands to engulf the earth, the elements that make up the earth are then 'recycled' as elements in the sun. When our sun eventually collapses into a dwarf white star if will have shed great quantities of carbon back into space (some of which will be from you and me).  

We are all stardust.

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 27/02/2023 at 16:35, foolsfolly said:

I mean no offense Steven but that is a very simplistic view of matter never being wasted. 

Absolutely if you ignore what the "life"/conscience/the mind entity is. I wasn't only talking about the physical things that made up our bodies or universe.

On 27/02/2023 at 16:37, Biscuits Brown said:

Well, I believe based the current cosmological theories that we simply break down into our base carbon based components and become absorbed into the earth - we decay. There is no 'energy' to go anywhere. We are just carbon based 'things'. When our sun eventually expands to engulf the earth, the elements that make up the earth are then 'recycled' as elements in the sun. When our sun eventually collapses into a dwarf white star if will have shed great quantities of carbon back into space (some of which will be from you and me).  

Absolutely if you ignore what the "life"/conscience/the mind entity is.  I wasn't only talking about the physical things that made up our bodies or universe.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

On 27/02/2023 at 09:40, foolsfolly said:

Come now. How can you be a 'firm believer' in the multiverse? It's pure hypothetical at this point and has several heavy hitters in the science community unconvinced.

The time to be a 'firm believer' is when the evidence is there to support it.

 

We are all stardust.

well 'firm' is a strong word yes. but it makes a certain amount of sense when thinking about certain aspects.

Could the theories be completely wrong? sure. but with our current level of technology we have no way to prove either way; we're just starting to scratch the surface of quantum mechanics. I'm not going to fight someone tooth and nail to prove "I'm Right". There's enough of that kind of argument with current modern organized religions.

edit: I'm of the type that just wants to live my current life to the fullest while treating those around me with kindness. When its my time to go then I'll find out.

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 28/02/2023 at 02:52, Steven P. said:

Absolutely if you ignore what the "life"/conscience/the mind entity is. I wasn't only talking about the physical things that made up our bodies or universe.

I don't follow. What is this "life"/conscience/the mind entity in your view?

You mention conscience. There is no conscience absent a brain. Are you aware of any universal conscience absent a brain?

Should we be using 'conscious' instead of 'conscience'?

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 27/02/2023 at 18:08, foolsfolly said:

I don't follow. What is this "life"/conscience/the mind entity in your view?

You mention conscience. There is no conscience absent a brain. Are you aware of any universal conscience absent a brain?

You don't have to "follow" make up your own mind.  

[+Edouard Subscriber²]

On 28/02/2023 at 04:11, Steven P. said:

You don't have to "follow" make up your own mind.  

I mean 'follow' as in I'm not following your line of thinking. You're correct of course in that we all must make our own minds up.

 

[MuffinMullet09]

Just an edit, I didn't realize this was an old topic, sorry if I broke the rules about old topics, thought the topic was intersting enough for me to give my two bob thoughts!

 

I do tend to wonder at what point we all stop existing,  but I suppose that what death is for to find out whether there is an afterlife. Personally, I believe whatever floats your boat is what you think is beyond this life.

I am a Christian, so I do tend to think I'll be going to heaven (or hell depending on you look at the bible and context) , but I also know that there are people out there who want to tend to think there is re-incarnation. Wouldn't it be awesome though we could pick what happens to us at the end of our current life?

[Pork Chopper]

Ponder this.  Before we were born did we exist? You can argue that death is like not being born. Neil deGrasse Tyson shares this view as I heard him say on his Star Talk podcast.

[MuffinMullet09]

Interesting , I will have to source that. Ill have to source out that star talk podcast. 

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

What if we never did in the first place, and this is all a simulation?

[Mindovermaster Global Moderator]

It's all to do with the Matrix..

[spikey_richie]

On 27/02/2023 at 15:28, Brandon H said:

I'm a firm believer of the quantum multi-verse theory.

Have you watched the TV show DEVS? I think you'd enjoy it.

[astropheed Veteran]

You're a mere congregation of energy, questioning its own existence, no more or less significant than sandwich mustard. In the material world, in which you've inferred a stable and consistent purpose, you resemble a skipping stone on water, with the grand splendor of life experienced only from a relative and possibly isolated perspective. The beauty of that skipping stone lost on an Ant in Africa but bewildering a child in Spain as it skips, seemingly forever, challenging all they know... Until it sinks. As for proving your relevance or subjectivity, you're as tangible as an abstract artwork. A paradoxical existence, both inconsequential and infinitely precious, like a drop of water in an endless ocean. Give no more or less precedence than deserved in the notions of a beyond.

Life's meaning, intertwined with quantum probabilities, suggests that our essence exists in a state of flux. Upon death, our energy may be repurposed in various forms, transcending the constraints of fixed souls or reincarnation. This continuous rebirth, unrestricted by species or matter, highlights the complex interconnectedness of existence. Embracing this uncertainty, we find ourselves resonating with the universe's grand quantum symphony. Frustration is without merit, as you're already within this cosmic dance of particles and forces. You are as you have always been since the birth of the universe and you'll remain in this flux for trillions of years.

[Wiggz]

You know what, I used to agonise over questions like this for hours in my early 20s. 20 years later, do you know what my mantra is now? "enjoy the passing of time".

I've come to the conclusion that a) if there is an all-consuming purpose to life as we know it, it will present itself so there's little point searching for it, b) certainly in this guise, all of our evidence to date suggests that we only get one turn on this crazy ride, so just do you, try not to upset people but don't take their crap, and try to "enjoy the passing of time".

For me, enjoyment is the one thing I'm striving for. From enjoyment comes joy.

[inactive]

On 27/02/2023 at 09:46, Steven P. said:

Nobody understands life because we can't prove what's beyond it.

Some understand life as there is enough evidence (that's at least plausible) out there for those who can see it.

basically Christianity is the Truth. Jesus Resurrected ('Shroud of Turin' is further evidence for this (before anyone brings it up, that 1988 radio carbon dating test is not valid as the piece that was tested was from a repaired portion of the Shroud basically)) etc. basically that's the general point of life here on earth is a test whether we ultimately side with God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit)) or against Him as we all will ultimately end up in Heaven with God (eternal joy) or hell with Satan (eternal suffering/misery) as those are the only two final destinations after we pass from this life into the next.

but in the end for some people (basically the hard-line atheist types especially), it pretty much boils down to... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas

or another way to put it... those who want that hardcore definitive proof of whether there is life beyond the hear-and-now on earth, you will simply not get that level of concrete proof that pretty much everyone will acknowledge (although it appears they got people with near-death experiences of people seeing stuff they could not possibly know, which is another reason the soul/our consciousness lives on once our bodies are dead). faith is required on some level as it's just the way things are

but personally I never understood the atheist mindset of 'There is no God. period.' as it makes more sense to be, at minimum, agnostic, or a more towards a believer than atheist if you got to choose between the two given all of the stuff out there in the world. but for some people... it's like they don't want to believe there is a ultimate source of good/evil because then they might have to change their lives and that there is consequences for how they live their lives as some might not want to change as they prefer their sin over God etc.

just some thoughts

[Nick H. Supervisor]

On 12/05/2023 at 17:18, ThaCrip said:

Some understand life as there is enough evidence (that's at least plausible) out there for those who can see it.

basically Christianity is the Truth.

Sorry, but I stopped here. My family support Christianity, but they accept other people and their faiths - or in my case, the lack of. They would never say that their belief is The Truth, they would merely say that it is their belief in things.

Saying that something as open as this question has an absolute answer invalidates your argument for me.

[Tuskd]

Ah, the one question that has been bothering us since our existence. Always fascinating to see various perspectives and beliefs. Keep it coming, guys.

I am a firm believer of "Live and let live". It is OK to believe in whatever you think happens to us, as long as you keep it to yourself and respect others' beliefs too. Just try to be a good person and be of benefit to the society and the planet while you are alive.

That being said, I am a practicing Hindu and kind of go with that flow. There's a lot of discussion and commentaries regarding this topic in Vedic literature. Some make sense, some don't.