Test Windows 11 ARM on x86?

By scumdogmillionaire
in Microsoft (Windows)

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Grand Master

scumdogmillionaire

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Hello! Is there a way to test Windows 11 ARM on x86? I am thinking of switching from PC to Mac m2 with Parallels running Windows 11. I maintain a .NET Framework Winforms app that requires x86 and that's the only thing that really prevents me from just switching to macOS full time.

Is there a way to test the ARM version and it's limitations before I dive head first in? I have no idea if the app even works in this configuration with the x64 emulation, etc... so I'd like to know, but 3k is a lot to spend and have it flop.

Thanks!

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Grand Master

adrynalyne

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Posted (edited)
On 11/03/2023 at 07:02, scumdogmillionaire said:

Hello! Is there a way to test Windows 11 ARM on x86? I am thinking of switching from PC to Mac m2 with Parallels running Windows 11. I maintain a .NET Framework Winforms app that requires x86 and that's the only thing that really prevents me from just switching to macOS full time.

Is there a way to test the ARM version and it's limitations before I dive head first in? I have no idea if the app even works in this configuration with the x64 emulation, etc... so I'd like to know, but 3k is a lot to spend and have it flop.

Thanks!

Can your application run on 4.8.1? If so, it should be fine.

If not, then it may still work fine, but it will have to use emulated x64 .NET Framework which will make it slower.

If you are using anything before .NET 6 (maybe 5 too), you can pretty much forget about that working, at least in my experience. It wouldn't even install.

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Grand Master

scumdogmillionaire

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Yeah, luckily I keep up with .NET Framework on it. It's currently on 4.7.2. I can look at updating it to 4.8.1, I didn't really know that was a marker for it, so I will certainly look into that. Visual Studio doesn't even load up 4.8 by default, so I never bothered with that move so my installer wouldn't have to deal with it.

Thank you for the insight!

Grand Master

adrynalyne

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 11/03/2023 at 08:51, scumdogmillionaire said:

Yeah, luckily I keep up with .NET Framework on it. It's currently on 4.7.2. I can look at updating it to 4.8.1, I didn't really know that was a marker for it, so I will certainly look into that. Visual Studio doesn't even load up 4.8 by default, so I never bothered with that move so my installer wouldn't have to deal with it.

Thank you for the insight!

Yeah 4.8.1 came out specifically for Windows on ARM and Visual Studio. They are working pretty hard to get feature parity with the x64 version of VS. The newest preview build adds in Maui support.

I've been running projects that were built on 4.5 and 4.8.1 has been ok to run them under as long as I reinstalled the NuGet packages.  Coherence mode is top notch too. People scratch their heads when they see Visual Studio 2022 in the dock.

Grand Master

scumdogmillionaire

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
On 11/03/2023 at 10:57, adrynalyne said:

Yeah 4.8.1 came out specifically for Windows on ARM and Visual Studio. They are working pretty hard to get feature parity with the x64 version of VS. The newest preview build adds in Maui support.

I've been running projects that were built on 4.5 and 4.8.1 has been ok to run them under as long as I reinstalled the NuGet packages.  Coherence mode is top notch too. People scratch their heads when they see Visual Studio 2022 in the dock.

That's great to hear.

So what if you rely on a package or component that is on Framework 2.0 or something?  Is that still fine, just as long as host app is still on 4.8.1?

EDIT: Ah crap, I just realized SQL Server Express which I install with the app won't work. I could find work arounds for development, but to actually test my installer even I'm going to need an actual Windows PC somewhere. Boo.

Grand Master

adrynalyne

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 11/03/2023 at 09:05, scumdogmillionaire said:

That's great to hear.

So what if you rely on a package or component that is on Framework 2.0 or something?  Is that still fine, just as long as host app is still on 4.8.1?

EDIT: Ah crap, I just realized SQL Server Express which I install with the app won't work. I could find work arounds for development, but to actually test my installer even I'm going to need an actual Windows PC somewhere. Boo.

Framework 3.5 and older are on a different code base than 4.x so no, there is very little chance of those working.

For Sql Server,  my workaround was to use Docker in macOS and create a container using the amd64 version of the image. It allows you to go all the way back to SQL Server 2017. The ARM image out there is some weird edge version. I don't know if SQL server express is available in Docker though. I use the developer version of SQL server.

 

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Grand Master

scumdogmillionaire

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Yeah, I don't care so much about this working from an end user side, but I'd like to be able to have one computer that I use daily rather than two. Guess it's never gonna happen until I no longer have to maintain this app. My next thought was Azure Dev Box, but that's stupid expensive AND i have a hardware code signing key, so I have to deal with that myself. Frustrating. Stopped at every corner haha.

Grand Master

adrynalyne

Posted
Posted
On 11/03/2023 at 09:33, scumdogmillionaire said:

Yeah, I don't care so much about this working from an end user side, but I'd like to be able to have one computer that I use daily rather than two. Guess it's never gonna happen until I no longer have to maintain this app. My next thought was Azure Dev Box, but that's stupid expensive AND i have a hardware code signing key, so I have to deal with that myself. Frustrating. Stopped at every corner haha.

Yeah, from what you have described, Parallels should be fine and actually, at least for me, it works incredibly well.

If you want details on the Docker setup, let me know. Its as simple as installing Docker on macOS and running docker run with some options, but I can give you all that. Then its as simple as using SSMS or whatever, just like before.

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Neowinian

ogbonnayauche

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Posted

One thing you could try is setting up a virtual machine on your current PC and installing Windows 11 ARM on it. This way, you can test out your .NET Framework Winforms app and see if it works with x64 emulation. It's not a perfect test, but it could give you an idea of what to expect. As for your concern about spending a lot of money on a new Mac and having it flop, I totally get it.

Grand Master

adrynalyne

Posted
Posted
On 06/04/2023 at 01:52, ogbonnayauche said:

One thing you could try is setting up a virtual machine on your current PC and installing Windows 11 ARM on it. This way, you can test out your .NET Framework Winforms app and see if it works with x64 emulation. It's not a perfect test, but it could give you an idea of what to expect. As for your concern about spending a lot of money on a new Mac and having it flop, I totally get it.

How would you go about that, being its a different architecture? Seems like an emulator would be needed.

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