ARM laptop with replaceable memory?

By nekrosoft13
in Hardware Hangout

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leonsk29

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I suspect no ARM laptop will come with replaceable RAM. Replaceable RAM can't compete with the performance of soldered RAM and right now everyone wants to be the fastest, so no one will offer that. Maybe in the future but yeah, it's sad that soldered RAM is quietly becoming the standard on ARM laptops. Thanks for that, Apple, you started the trend with your Mx SoCs.

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Michael Scrip

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Yeah soldered RAM makes it impossible to upgrade the RAM yourself.  But there is a difference between soldered RAM, and having the RAM being part of the package.  The former is just soldering the RAM chips to the motherboard instead of using DIMM sockets.  The latter is making the RAM an integral part of the package.

In Apple's case... the RAM is inside the package.  That's why it's so fast since the data doesn't have to travel so far.  And it's accessible to everything inside the package... CPU, GPU, ML cores, etc with great throughput.  Apple has branded it "Unified Memory"

I'm not sure if Qualcomm does the same Memory-On-Package thing.  The makers of Windows ARM laptops might simply be soldering RAM outside the package instead of offering DIMM slots.  To me, that's the worst of both worlds.  You can't upgrade the RAM... and you don't get the speed benefits of having the RAM integrated into the package.

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tsupersonic

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On 24/06/2024 at 23:10, Michael Scrip said:

Yeah soldered RAM makes it impossible to upgrade the RAM yourself.  But there is a difference between soldered RAM, and having the RAM being part of the package.  The former is just soldering the RAM chips to the motherboard instead of using DIMM sockets.  The latter is making the RAM an integral part of the package.

In Apple's case... the RAM is inside the package.  That's why it's so fast since the data doesn't have to travel so far.  And it's accessible to everything inside the package... CPU, GPU, ML cores, etc with great throughput.  Apple has branded it "Unified Memory"

I'm not sure if Qualcomm does the same Memory-On-Package thing.  The makers of Windows ARM laptops might simply be soldering RAM outside the package instead of offering DIMM slots.  To me, that's the worst of both worlds.  You can't upgrade the RAM... and you don't get the speed benefits of having the RAM integrated into the package.

It seems that initial batch of PC's with the Snapdragon chip are using soldered RAM. I agree it's the worst of both worlds, but it is industry standard for the thin/light class of laptops that these are designed for at the moment. However, it does give a glimmer of hope that it is possible for someone to create an ARM based Snapdragon laptop with user upgradable RAM (particularly interested in seeing if/when ARM is used for business and gaming class laptops in the future)

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leonsk29

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On 25/06/2024 at 10:09, tsupersonic said:

It seems that initial batch of PC's with the Snapdragon chip are using soldered RAM. I agree it's the worst of both worlds, but it is industry standard for the thin/light class of laptops that these are designed for at the moment. However, it does give a glimmer of hope that it is possible for someone to create an ARM based Snapdragon laptop with user upgradable RAM (particularly interested in seeing if/when ARM is used for business and gaming class laptops in the future)

Maybe the new memory standard CAMM2 could come to the rescue here? Upgradeable, power and space-efficient. I don't know if it's more efficient or performant than on-die/soldered memory, though. I'm guessing no, nothing beats on-die, but maybe it's a good middle ground?

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Grand Master

nekrosoft13

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On 25/06/2024 at 09:42, leonsk29 said:

Maybe the new memory standard CAMM2 could come to the rescue here? Upgradeable, power and space-efficient. I don't know if it's more efficient or performant than on-die/soldered memory, though. I'm guessing no, nothing beats on-die, but maybe it's a good middle ground?

that what I hope

replaceable memory/SSD is a must for any laptops for me. being able to increase the ram, or even swap it out due to errors is great.

Adata announced Steam Deck competition with CAMM2, that also sounds great.

 

Grand Master

leonsk29

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On 25/06/2024 at 10:55, nekrosoft13 said:

that what I hope

replaceable memory/SSD is a must for any laptops for me. being able to increase the ram, or even swap it out due to errors is great.

Adata announced Steam Deck competition with CAMM2, that also sounds great.

 

Yeah, upgradeable components is also a must-have for me on any laptop. RAM, storage, battery, Wi-Fi card module.

Grand Master

tsupersonic

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On 25/06/2024 at 11:03, leonsk29 said:

Yeah, upgradeable components is also a must-have for me on any laptop. RAM, storage, battery, Wi-Fi card module.

I upgraded my laptop last year - 16 GB to 32 GB RAM, and updated the NVME SSD from 512 GB to 1 TB. My justification - because I can. I don't really have a need for the extra memory, but the memory was on sale for $50. I didn't need the capacity for the storage, but it was faster storage, so it was a win.

I should upgrade the WiFi card to support WiFi 6E (currently WiFi 6), but I'm too lazy to open it back up just to do that.

This is just a regular ol' Dell laptop, so nothing fancy. 

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