Bans due to launching games on ReFS

[sao123]

On 18/08/2025 at 19:23, remixedcat said:

but why would a game dev care about what filesystem you are using? Not unless aimbots are built into it?

ReFS is a filesystem for Enterprise Virtualization in DataCenters.

There is no-reason for a home user to use it for a primary home gaming computer.

In all logic, detecting it prevent's hundreds of virtualized bots from logging in and playing the game.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 25/08/2025 at 15:15, sao123 said:

ReFS is a filesystem for Enterprise Virtualization in DataCenters.

There is no-reason for a home user to use it for a primary home gaming computer.

In all logic, detecting it prevent's hundreds of virtualized bots from logging in and playing the game.

TBH, I can't fathom why anyone would use an unfinished, unreleased filesystem on their primary gaming machine.  Talk about making poor choices...

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 25/08/2025 at 13:52, FloatingFatMan said:

That won't get him his "justice".  His account his gone, his PC probably blacklisted, and I doubt he wants to buy the game all over again...

Justice is a myth anyway.

[Matthew S.]

On 25/08/2025 at 08:46, Nik Louch said:

Or… just use a standard setup for a gaming environment, don’t mess about with file systems that aren’t supported and don’t use anything that could potentially be identified as a “cheating app” (which by their definition is anything that restricts file system access to their game content and apps).

As per most people…

See, I game infrequently, but I do mess about with my OS a fair bit, and part of that would IMMEDIATELY be the consideration of “Wait just a second, I have heard about these cheat detection methods they use, *AM I DOING SOMETHING* that could trigger those?”

And on top of that complain about forcing DLSS on the game, that's technically manipulation of game data there... it's likely using some sort of DLL injector to get it running.

[Zinomian]

ohh wow...5 pages already? 

Some people just don't get when they screw up and need to feel the need to be "validated" somehow.  I don't get it.

this is like beating a dead horse with a stick.....ran OS on unsupported file system that triggered (even if false positive) anti-cheat to "detect" cheating, what one could assume was multiple times due to running the game from the same OS/File system, then gets banned.   

Yeah, it sucks, yes, there should be a way one could open a conversation with Activition about it, and perhaps reverse the ban, but how many times has Activision and or other game software vendors have seen similar situation only to find that there was indeed cheating?  

As a gamer....run your games on fully supported software, with official drivers if you want to avoid being banned from an online game.  Or buy games that do not require a subscription and or an online connection.

ugh...this should NOT be so hard to explain and or rationalize.

[sao123]

On 25/08/2025 at 11:36, FloatingFatMan said:

TBH, I can't fathom why anyone would use an unfinished, unreleased filesystem on their primary gaming machine.  Talk about making poor choices...

I feel like this is a mis-conception.

ReFS is not an unfinished unreleased experimental filesystem.  It is exclusively an Enterprise level technology.  Meaning it is NOT available for consumer grade devices.

Unless you have more than 256TB up to 35PB (peta-bytes) you gain nothing from ReFS.  This is strictly for Google, Microsoft, Amazon:  Cloud DataCenters and the like.

 

The fact that a 16 Leiter Cummins Deisel engine with an 18 Gear AMT Transmission is not available in your Chevy PickUp doesn't mean its unreleased.  It means that those features are only designed to be used by a full size 18-wheeler semi-truck.

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2025 by sao123

[adrynalyne]

On 26/08/2025 at 06:18, sao123 said:

I feel like this is a mis-conception.

ReFS is not an unfinished unreleased experimental filesystem.  It is exclusively an Enterprise level technology.  Meaning it is NOT available for consumer grade devices.

Unless you have more than 256TB up to 35PB (peta-bytes) you gain nothing from ReFS.  This is strictly for Google, Microsoft, Amazon:  Cloud DataCenters and the like.

 

The fact that a 16 Leiter Cummins Deisel engine with an 18 Gear AMT Transmission is not available in your Chevy PickUp doesn't mean its unreleased.  It means that those features are only designed to be used by a full size 18-wheeler semi-truck.

 

 

 

I feel like this is a misconception too. Since Microsoft silently updates ReFS often, that by definition is unfinished. In addition, it is available to consumers in two ways: Dev Drive, (which is not an enterprise grade function and will not reach into PB territory), and Pro for  Workstations.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-drive/

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/windows-11-pro-for-workstations/dg7gmgf0kr4m

It’s definitely not a general use filesystem but it is also not for enterprise only.

[sao123]

On 26/08/2025 at 11:28, adrynalyne said:

I feel like this is a misconception too. Since Microsoft silently updates ReFS often, that by definition is unfinished. In addition, it is available to consumers in two ways: Dev Drive, (which is not an enterprise grade function and will not reach into PB territory), and Pro for  Workstations.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-drive/

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/windows-11-pro-for-workstations/dg7gmgf0kr4m

It’s definitely not a general use filesystem but it is also not for enterprise only.

 

By that logic, Microsoft Office is ?unfinished?, as they make updates to it monthly since 1995?

The only software that is ever "finished" is the end of life stuff.

ReFS is a fully deployed production feature of their server operating system.

 

But your point is flawed.

"Dev Drive is a new form of storage volume available to improve performance for key developer workloads."  -- DevDrive is for DEVELOPERS, not CONSUMERS NOR PROSUMERS.  These are people tasked with creating applications which will run in an enterprise cloud environment.

"Designed for projects such as intensive graphics work and massive data crunching."  -  Windows 11 PRO is again, not for Consumers nor Prosumers, but Professional Enterprise Workstations.  Your average home user is not using an Intel XENON 64 Core Workstation with Quadro P6000 Graphics.

 

Home users can purchase these items, but they are not designed with intended for home use under any circumstances  These ARE enterprise grade.

 

 

 

 

 

[adrynalyne]

On 26/08/2025 at 08:57, sao123 said:

 

By that logic, Microsoft Office is ?unfinished?, as they make updates to it monthly since 1995?

The only software that is ever "finished" is the end of life stuff.

ReFS is a fully deployed production feature of their server operating system.

 

But your point is flawed.

"Dev Drive is a new form of storage volume available to improve performance for key developer workloads."  -- DevDrive is for DEVELOPERS, not CONSUMERS NOR PROSUMERS.  These are people tasked with creating applications which will run in an enterprise cloud environment.

"Designed for projects such as intensive graphics work and massive data crunching."  -  Windows 11 PRO is again, not for Consumers nor Prosumers, but Professional Enterprise Workstations.  Your average home user is not using an Intel XENON 64 Core Workstation with Quadro P6000 Graphics.

 

Home users can purchase these items, but they are not designed with intended for home use under any circumstances  These ARE enterprise grade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Office is one thing; a filesystem is *not* something you want updated all the time. 

Not only is my logic not flawed, but you contradicted yourself.

 

 It is exclusively an Enterprise level technology.  Meaning it is NOT available for consumer grade devices.

Which is why I replied. Then you said:

Home users can purchase these items, but they are not designed with intended for home use under any circumstances  These ARE enterprise grade.

 

Dev drive is available to non-Enterprise and non-Server SKUs.

Developer features are not enterprise grade. Can Developers work in Enterprise? You betcha. Are there many more indie devs and those who do not work in Enterprise? Yes. Do they both take advantage using dev drive?  Yep!

[Matthew S.]

NTFS was last updated in 2001, it's version number is still 3.1

ReFS was last updated in Windows build 26047 and it's current version is 3.14, it's received more updated in a shorter amount of time then NTFS has existed...

[sao123]

On 26/08/2025 at 12:27, adrynalyne said:

 

Office is one thing; a filesystem is *not* something you want updated all the time. 

Not only is my logic not flawed, but you contradicted yourself.

 

 It is exclusively an Enterprise level technology.  Meaning it is NOT available for consumer grade devices.

Which is why I replied. Then you said:

Home users can purchase these items, but they are not designed with intended for home use under any circumstances  These ARE enterprise grade.

 

Dev drive is available to non-Enterprise and non-Server SKUs.

Developer features are not enterprise grade. Can Developers work in Enterprise? You betcha. Are there many more indie devs and those who do not work in Enterprise? Yes. Do they both take advantage using dev drive?  Yep!

 

There is a wide chasm between you having the ability to purchase something and you being the intended purpose and intended audience for something by the people who created it and market it.

Just because you can purchase something, doesnt mean it is intended for you.

 

 

A boy scout buys nuclear material to build his own home nuclear reactor at the age of 17.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/building-a-better-breeder-reactor-1

 

Private citizen buys 46 retired air force F18 Hornets.

https://www.twz.com/32869/this-man-owns-the-worlds-most-advanced-private-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets

 

 

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

[adrynalyne]

On 26/08/2025 at 23:25, sao123 said:

 

There is a wide chasm between you having the ability to purchase something and you being the intended purpose and intended audience for something by the people who created it and market it.

Just because you can purchase something, doesnt mean it is intended for you.

 

 

A boy scout buys nuclear material to build his own home nuclear reactor at the age of 17.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/building-a-better-breeder-reactor-1

 

Private citizen buys 46 retired air force F18 Hornets.

https://www.twz.com/32869/this-man-owns-the-worlds-most-advanced-private-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets

 

 

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

 

On 26/08/2025 at 06:18, sao123 said:

Meaning it is NOT available for consumer grade devices.

 

There is a wide chasm of difference between Not available and Not intended for.

I made it clear that it is available to consumers. You moving the goalpost to it being intentional instead doesn’t validate your original message.
 

Your incredibly exaggerated examples don’t either. 

 

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

Why on Earth are people comparing this to Russian dictators and nuclear materials?

Grow up!

[sao123]

On 27/08/2025 at 02:56, adrynalyne said:

 

 

There is a wide chasm of difference between Not available and Not intended for.

I made it clear that it is available to consumers. You moving the goalpost to it being intentional instead doesn’t validate your original message.
 

Your incredibly exaggerated examples don’t either. 

 

Never claimed it wasnt available, availability doesnt mean squat.    My original goal post was it is not intended for consumers.

If you can't demonstrate product was INTENDED for the current usage, then product is MISUSED, hence the appropriate banning.

 

 

 

[adrynalyne]

On 27/08/2025 at 05:34, sao123 said:

Never claimed it wasnt available, availability doesnt mean squat.    My original goal post was it is not intended for consumers.

If you can't demonstrate product was INTENDED for the current usage, then product is MISUSED, hence the appropriate banning.

 

 

 

I literally quoted you saying it. To remind you, you said this:

Meaning it is NOT available for consumer grade devices.

You should have said intended from the beginning if that’s what you meant. I totally get making mistakes, it happens. But don’t double down and lie about it. Own that 💩and move on.

Now that you have made clear that was your intention from the beginning, there is nothing left to discuss. 

[funkerwolf]

NTFS has been significantly updated to Vista/Server 2008 and then to Windows 8. But the version number remains the same as the old one, which leads some enthusiasts of alternative systems to conclude that this file system is supposedly outdated.

[neufuse Veteran]

On 26/08/2025 at 09:18, sao123 said:

I feel like this is a mis-conception.

ReFS is not an unfinished unreleased experimental filesystem.  It is exclusively an Enterprise level technology.  Meaning it is NOT available for consumer grade devices.

Unless you have more than 256TB up to 35PB (peta-bytes) you gain nothing from ReFS.  This is strictly for Google, Microsoft, Amazon:  Cloud DataCenters and the like.

 

The fact that a 16 Leiter Cummins Deisel engine with an 18 Gear AMT Transmission is not available in your Chevy PickUp doesn't mean its unreleased.  It means that those features are only designed to be used by a full size 18-wheeler semi-truck.

 

 

 

I use ReFS on windows 11 because it's what they format the Dev Drive with..... and that's a consumer level feature

[Matthew S.]

On 31/08/2025 at 15:15, funkerwolf said:

NTFS has been significantly updated to Vista/Server 2008 and then to Windows 8. But the version number remains the same as the old one, which leads some enthusiasts of alternative systems to conclude that this file system is supposedly outdated.

NTFS, the file system, has not received any updates since 2001; the tooling however HAS.  ReFS, by contrast, has had on-disk format changes.

 

Quote

While the NTFS on-disk format (v3.1) has remained the same since Windows XP, newer versions of Windows (starting with Vista) have introduced new features leveraging the existing NTFS infrastructure, such as online self-healing and spot verification for corruption detection and correction, symbolic links, and support for larger disk volumes via GUID Partition Tables (GPT) and support for extended-length paths. 

Changes in NTFS-related features

Self-healing and Verification:Windows Vista and later versions introduced online self-healing for NTFS, allowing the file system to fix some corruptions during normal operation. In Windows 8, a spot verification service was added to verify actual corruption before attempting to fix it. 

Larger Volumes and GPT:While Windows XP's NTFS was limited by partition table limitations (like MBR), subsequent versions can use GUID Partition Tables (GPT) to support much larger NTFS volumes and enable bootability with UEFI systems. 

Extended-Length Paths:Newer Windows versions support Unicode-based APIs and features, allowing for extended-length file paths of up to approximately 32,767 characters, far beyond the 260-character limit in older systems. 

Symbolic Links:Windows Vista introduced the functionality for symbolic links within NTFS, which were not available in Windows XP. 

Cluster-Awareness and Cluster Shared Volumes:NTFS in later Windows versions supports continuously available volumes when used in conjunction with failover clusters and Cluster Shared Volumes (CSV), allowing simultaneous access from multiple cluster nodes. 

Short Name (8.3) Disabling:In Windows Server 2008 R2 and later, the disabling of 8.3 short file name aliases on NTFS volumes is supported for performance reasons, with short names disabled by default on newly formatted volumes. 

What has not changed

NTFS v3.1 on-disk format:The fundamental on-disk format of NTFS, version 3.1, remains unchanged since its introduction with Windows XP and is still used in later operating systems like Windows 7 and Windows 8. 

Quote

No, ReFS 3.4 is not backwards compatible with older ReFS versions like ReFS 2.0. While newer ReFS versions can generally read older ReFS volumes, once a ReFS volume is mounted and updated to a later ReFS revision (such as by attaching it to a newer operating system), it becomes incompatible with older systems that only support earlier revisions. There is no way to "downgrade" the revision, as significant on-disk structures are modified. 

Key Points on ReFS Version Compatibility

Forward Compatibility Only: ReFS volumes are only forward-compatible. 

Auto-Promotion: When a ReFS volume is attached to a device with a newer ReFS revision, the volume will be automatically promoted to the latest supported revision. 

No Downgrade Path: There is no built-in procedure to revert a ReFS volume to an older revision once it has been auto-promoted. 

Data Loss Risk: If you attach a ReFS 3.4 volume to a system that supports a newer ReFS version, it gets promoted, making it unreadable on systems with older ReFS support. 

Workaround for Older Systems: If you need to access data from a higher ReFS version on an older system, you must back up the data from the higher-version volume on a compatible system, reformat the drive to the older ReFS version (or NTFS), and then restore the data. 

 

[Matthew S.]

On 01/09/2025 at 18:54, neufuse said:

I use ReFS on windows 11 because it's what they format the Dev Drive with..... and that's a consumer level feature

That's technically a developer feature...

[binaryzero]

On 02/09/2025 at 16:36, Matthew S. said:

NTFS, the file system, has not received any updates since 2001; the tooling however HAS.  ReFS, by contrast, has had on-disk format changes.

2017*

[neufuse Veteran]

On 02/09/2025 at 02:40, Matthew S. said:

That's technically a developer feature...

developers are also consumers, that's not enterprise

[funkerwolf]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/technet-wiki/15645.windows-8-volume-compatibility-considerations-with-prior-versions-of-windows

[Matthew S.]

On 02/09/2025 at 03:21, binaryzero said:

2017*

Uhh, no NTFS's On-Disk format was last updated in 2001, try again.

On 02/09/2025 at 10:46, funkerwolf said:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/technet-wiki/15645.windows-8-volume-compatibility-considerations-with-prior-versions-of-windows

LFS Lives on-top of NTFS, it's not specifically part of the format.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

The following response is under the assumption funkerwolf posts are accurate. 

Activision should un-ban funkerwolf if they were willing to have windows & the game installed on a standard NTFS partition.
If the game isn't compatible (with required anti-cheat, etc), Activistion isn't going to make a special build for an edge case situation.

I'm wondering if Activision got a false positive for an existing cheat, and just assumed they were someone trying cause them grief them for getting "caught". With the number of actual cheater's trying to challenge combined. This does not excuse Activision support's behavior and lack of sue diligence. 

 

 

 

 

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 02/09/2025 at 16:54, Eternal Tempest said:

The following response is under the assumption funkerwolf posts are accurate. 

Uh huh... That's a pretty sizeable "if" - and accuracy includes omissions...