I'm converted! (windowblinds)

[smoke]

Bottom line for me is WB DOESN'T CRASH. And I've seen it on all my systems and my families comptuers and I've ran it for many years and it just keeps on getting better. It hardly takes up any memory, (1.4mb or less) or CPU. Just because you have had a bad experience in the past that doesn't mean it's like that for everyone.

Also microsoft's is the "theming service" not just uxtheme.dll.

I wish people would actually listen to reason. If you like microsoft's theming service fine, use it. But let us who like other things use what we want.

[memNOC]

It IS NOT STARDOCK's problem. They simply gave the skinners more power to control the layout. Just because a set of "rules" says doing something one way makes things better doesn't mean it's actually true for all people.

how can you say you prefer looking for the Close button, whose position/size varies practically every other skin, than just swinging away in the upper-right direction and clicking? :blink:

and these are not rules like your average "every car should have seatbelts".. this is a proven law of design, just like the law of gravity, law of motion, etc..

going around that purposefully really bakes my noodle..

[Danrarbc]

Wb uses uxtheme.dll?

If you have the Windows XP themeing service running everything is 'using' uxtheme.dll :rolleyes:

On the other hand, uxtheme NEVER crashes, it has NO BUGS

Sure about this? Absolutely never?

how can you say you prefer looking for the Close button, whose position/size varies practically every other skin, than just swinging away in the upper-right direction and clicking?

I thought Fitt's law says something in a corner is easier to click. Not only the upper right.

And he isn't saying he prefers looking for a button in every skin either, he's saying he prefers giving skin authors the option of having something where they want it.

Edited April 30, 2004 by Danrarbc641

[smoke]

From what I have seen fitts law doesn't specifically say that the top right is the best place to put things (like the close button) but rather the corners are the best areas. Most skins stick the buttons on either the top left or right. So for example the mac way doesn't violate the rule.

But anyway what I don't get is why would someone get so offended if someone would rather have the buttons on the left, or right. It's personal preference. It's not like the law of gravity at all. As you can see when you use systems other than a PC, like... a Mac.

Anyway even if someone chose to put the close button on... the bottom middle it shouldn't affect you personally. If it really bakes your noodle that people might like their buttons in other places than you, you need to get out more often.

Edited April 30, 2004 by smoke

[Redestium]

Having the option to place buttons is better than not having the option, imo.

[memNOC]

I thought Fitt's law says something in a corner is easier to click. Not only the upper right.

what's your point?

@smoke: you're missing it.. i'm not saying i don't like the close button in a place other than upper-right, it could be in the dead center of the screen for all i care.. i'm just saying that the PIXEL that closes down windows (in this case) should be in one of the four corners, like Fitt's law dictates..

and Macs have never obeyed this law.. i just find it funny they talk about this innovation in GUIs and can't follow the simplest of design rulebooks..

[smoke]

So what? I and a lot of other people use it like that everyday and it works just fine. With the old microsoft way the buttons where so close to each other and the edges that you could easily have mis clicks. Also MS Visual styles don't really follow your "law" either.

I never had a problem with things like that when using either OS9 or X, I wasn't even aware it was a problem for some people until you pointed it out but, whatever. Stay away from Mac's, lol. IMO what you wrote there is just extreme nit picking.

[memNOC]

So what? I and a lot of other people use it like that everyday and it works just fine. With the old microsoft way the buttons where so close to each other and the edges that you could easily have mis clicks. Also MS Visual styles don't really follow your "law" either.

first of all, not my law.

second, read up on what Fitt's law really is and what it stands for, then come back to post.

until then, don't try to argue about something you obviously have no idea about.

thirdly, ALL MSStyles obey Fitt's law in the "Close window" departament.. again, stop talking nonsense.

[Redestium]

The thing is you can get used to anything and don't even notice it anymore.

[Danrarbc]

what's your point?

You just kept on talking about the upper right corner specifically the whole time, i was just making sure you knew any corner will do ;)

[#Michael]

It's really interesting how quickly a simple thread like this turns into mud slinging.

The true simple answer is....use whatever you want.

I have grown soooo tired of explaining the differences between uxtheme and windowblinds.

To me this is quite simple:

1. Uxtheme is MS built in skinning engine, but is very limited in terms of what it can do. The skinning engine AKA theme service is combo of uxtheme and svchost.

2. Windowblinds is a 3rd party application that uses it own skinning engine AKA wbload. The ability of it's skinning capablities is only limited to it's authors imagination.

3. Either option preforms differently on each persons machine. It depends on cpu/ram/graphics card to determine which one runs better. Either one, when running independently of each other, uses around 2-4 MB of resources. The estimate of memory useage is also dependent on the theme that is being used.

So you what....stop the bitching and lets agree to disagree. To coin a phrase...."You can please some of the people all the time...you can please all the people some of the time....but you can't please all the people all the time."

This argument is getting so boring and tiresome.

[memNOC]

The thing is you can get used to anything and don't even notice it anymore.

i realize that, but i can't believe how people can be so ignorant about this..

it is a mathematical, statistical (whatever you like to call it) FACT that obeying Fitt's law in graphical user interfaces increases productivity and reduces stress, like i said earlier..

if you're used to doing it the hard way, fine by me.. but don't pretend like there's not better things out there just because you use it..

You just kept on talking about the upper right corner specifically the whole time, i was just making sure you knew any corner will do

sure.. i just didn't think it was relevant in the discussion..

[#Michael]

i realize that, but i can't believe how people can be so ignorant about this..

it is a mathematical, statistical (whatever you like to call it) FACT that obeying Fitt's law in graphical user interfaces increases productivity and reduces stress, like i said earlier..

if you're used to doing it the hard way, fine by me.. but don't pretend like there's not better things out there just because you use it..

sure.. i just didn't think it was relevant in the discussion..

And your telling me that using MS visual styles is the only way of accomplishing this? How stupid is that.....first off Mac/Apple was the first company to introduce the GUI. So what makes OS X so wrong?

[memNOC]

And your telling me that using MS visual styles is the only way of accomplishing this? How stupid is that.....first off Mac/Apple was the first company to introduce the GUI. So what makes OS X so wrong?

when did i said MSStyles were the only way to accomplish this? :blink:

what makes OSX wrong? i feel i'm beating a dead horse here.. read up on the thread, bucko.

and Apple sure as hell wasn't the first company to introduce the GUI.

[smoke]

i realize that, but i can't believe how people can be so ignorant about this..

it is a mathematical, statistical (whatever you like to call it) FACT that obeying Fitt's law in graphical user interfaces increases productivity and reduces stress, like i said earlier..

if you're used to doing it the hard way, fine by me.. but don't pretend like there's not better things out there just because you use it..

sure.. i just didn't think it was relevant in the discussion..

I myself am not ignorant of anything computer related. I have used various systems for a long time and observed lots of people using them. I know people who totally insist as you have about MS' way that the apple way is the easiest way and the most user friendly. And I know people who think microsoft's way is better.

You really should try to follow your own advice about "pretending that there's not better things out there" and that also applies to ms styles, or the microsoft way of doing anything.

In the end, there isn't a perfect interface and that's why it's good for people to be able to mold it to

what fits them best, putting the personal into personal computers.

[jimbo11883]

As far as I'm concerned, UI comes second place to functionality. Who cares what the close button looks like, as long as i know that that thing in the upper right corner will close my application. WB skins that move the buttons around are too confusing to beginners. Luna is great because the close, min, max buttons are larger, giving them more significance. Maybe if we were forced to go back to DOS then every one would stop complaining about WB and MS VS.

[#Michael]

when did i said MSStyles were the only way to accomplish this? :blink:

what makes OSX wrong? i feel i'm beating a dead horse here.. read up on the thread, bucko.

and Apple sure as hell wasn't the first company to introduce the GUI.

You are beating a dead horse. And I have read and posted through out this entire thread.

It all comes down to this within this thread....only you care about fitt's law.

It sure doesn't seem to concern anyone else in here.

Plus....that's not what this thread was about.

It was started as a person who found WB and enjoyed it and decided to share his/her joy with the neowin community.

[idkfa]

Christ almighty, I really can't believe this thread got so out of hand.

If you get 'stressed' about the close button not covering the pixel in the very corner (whichever corner) of the window then you have serious f'n issues!!

There's a lot of alternatives out there so if one skin doesn't suit you, go use something else and shut the fsck up. No one likes people who whinge.

[smoke]

And this *AHEM* happens to be in the windowblinds area.

[memNOC]

I myself am not ignorant of anything computer related. I have used various systems for a long time and observed lots of people using them. I know people who totally insist as you have about MS' way that the apple way is the easiest way and the most user friendly. And I know people who think microsoft's way is better.

You really should try to follow your own advice about "pretending that there's not better things out there" and that also applies to ms styles, or the microsoft way of doing anything.

In the end, there isn't a perfect interface and that's why it's good for people to be able to mold it to

what fits them best, putting the personal into personal computers.

i'm not taking sides as far as companies go here, and despite my negative opinion towards MacOS, i have no sympathy for Microsoft as a company.. needless to say, what i've said in this thread isn't biased in any way by my opinion of the companies themselves.. if Cap'n Crunch made an OS that chose Fitt's law over graphical appearance, i'd say that's pretty damn great.. :)

Christ almighty, I really can't believe this thread got so out of hand.

If you get 'stressed' about the close button not covering the pixel in the very corner (whichever corner) of the window then you have serious f'n issues!!

There's a lot of alternatives out there so if one skin doesn't suit you, go use something else and shut the fsck up. No one likes people who whinge.

what's out of hand? it was just a simple discussion, that got slightly off-topic, but other than that there was no flaming (from my part, at least) or personal attacks..

you really need to read up, though.. this isn't my grudge or the way I like to do things, and i won't repeat this any further, Fitt's law is simply a mathematical equation that a perfect GUI should be built upon..

i find it hilarious people can't follow a discussion without being insultive or taking offense.. i'm just stating facts here, no need to get postal, jeez

[#Michael]

i'm not taking sides as far as companies go here, and despite my negative opinion towards MacOS, i have no sympathy for Microsoft as a company.. needless to say, what i've said in this thread isn't biased in any way by my opinion of the companies themselves.. if Cap'n Crunch made an OS that chose Fitt's law over graphical appearance, i'd say that's pretty damn great.. :)

what's out of hand? it was just a simple discussion, that got slightly off-topic, but other than that there was no flaming (from my part, at least) or personal attacks..

you really need to read up, though.. this isn't my grudge or the way I like to do things, and i won't repeat this any further, Fitt's law is simply a mathematical equation that a perfect GUI should be built upon..

i find it hilarious people can't follow a discussion without being insultive or taking offense.. i'm just stating facts here, no need to get postal, jeez

The question is....What dows fitt's law have to do with this thread?

The answer: NOTHING!

In a perfect world, everything would exactly the way we want it. But nothings perfect and we just have to deal with that.

As other people have said, if standard MS visual styles or WB thmes don't suit you because of not following fitt's law....then by all means design one that is.

But until you try and create one that conforms to your standards....don't knock other themes. Everyone has their own personal taste.

What might be stress free and useable to you....might be very cumbersome and clumsy to someone else.

[demorgoron]

welcome :laugh:

you chould check out the Gui Olympics

they got some neat skins there. im currentyusingBlanco

its the only one that has been for more than 2 days in my pc,since i grew tired of them very quickly.

windowblinds and iconpackager are the best skinning programs for windows :yes:

[memNOC]

The question is....What dows fitt's law have to do with this thread?

The answer: Windowblinds doesn't conform to basic Fitt's standards of user interfaces.

What might be stress free and useable to you....might be very cumbersome and clumsy to someone else.

Jesus ****ing Christ.

it's a LAW dear man, a LAW! it's not about MY likings, or MY taste... IT'S WHAT'S BETTER, PERIOD.

i really don't know why i bother with ignorant people.

[#Michael]

The answer: Windowblinds doesn't conform to basic Fitt's standards of user interfaces.

Jesus ****ing Christ.

it's a LAW dear man, a LAW! it's not about MY likings, or MY taste... IT'S WHAT'S BETTER, PERIOD.

i really don't know why i bother with ignorant people.

If you feel that WB doesn't conform to fitt's law...then don't use it.

I am not some ignorant person.....I have tried just about every VS program out there including alternative shells.

And I still maintain...to each their own.

And Jesus ****ing christ to you to. Just because you think it's better period doesn't make it best for everyone.

Try taking your head out of your arse and relaize that everyone has personal tastes.

I think of it in terms of evolution versus creationism. Each one has it's pros and cons. Some choose to believe one and not the other.

So just because Fitt's law suggests that having standard layouts for GUI means better productivity doesn't mean you have to use it. Having a VS (i.e eye candy) is all about making the OS to the liking of the person using it.

Again....this isn't what this thread was supposed to be about. Damn...It again is sooo tiring responding to these complaints. :sleep:

[demorgoron]

If you feel that WB doesn't conform to fitt's law...then don't use it.

I am not some ignorant person.....I have tried just about every VS program out there including alternative shells.

And I still maintain...to each their own.

And Jesus ****ing christ to you to. Just because you think it's better period doesn't make it best for everyone.

Try taking your head out of your arse and relaize that everyone has personal tastes.

I think of it in terms of evolution versus creationism. Each one has it's pros and cons. Some choose to believe one and not the other.

So just because Fitt's law suggests that having standard layouts for GUI means better productivity doesn't mean you have to use it. Having a VS (i.e eye candy) is all about making the OS to the liking of the person using it.

AMEN (Y)

everyone want to have a very original os :yes: