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Visual Studio.Net 2005 Express beta

Asked by anog,

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Grand Master

azcodemonkey

Posted
Posted
I think this is a nice gesture from MS. But, with the onset of Mono, surely it would be easier just to use that and not have a crippled IDE -- esp. in the future when it becomes more feature packed?

Mono isn't an IDE, so I'm completely missing your point. The Express products offer full access to the .NET Framework.

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Experienced

smurfiness

Posted
Posted
Anyway to actually download the real installer files, not the one that connects to a server and downloads them? I already have Visual Basic .NET Standard, might be nice to try C# and C++, I downloaded both express versions.

I found this before and was going to post it, but wanted to check first. (Y)

Don't know if you can download them by themselves rather than using the web install. But after you complete the web install, they're all saved in the Microsoft Visual XXX 2005 Express Beta directory in the application directory.

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Mentor

Sn1p3t

Posted
Posted

You do realize this IS using Beta 1 of the .NET 2.0 framework right? Some of you were asking questions about differences between VS.net 2003 and the Express products. It's right there!

Read up on the millions of improvements .NET 2.0 brings (even to the C# developer).

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Mentor

Sn1p3t

Posted
Posted
Yeah, it is using a beta of the Framework. But that beta is WAY faster than 1.1 final, and I've yet to find an actual bug in 2.0 beta 1.

No bugs, but there are going to be even more improvements ;)

If you're building ASP.net 2.0 web applications, try using the pre-complimation tool :D

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Community Regular

bwx

Posted
Posted

The first thing I noticed was that when you create a new project in C#, you are faced with new constructs like the 'partial' class. After a little research, I found out that alongside the upgrade to .NET Beta 2.0, the C# language was updated as well (http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/0...20/default.aspx). This makes me wonder if the language will ever stabilize, or with each version, the language modified that will most likely break old code? How will this work?

Anyway, not to deviate much from the topic, I have to say the new version of Visual Studio looks very promising.

Attaching a screenshot in case anyone is interested.

bwx

post-47-1088567076.jpg

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Experienced

smurfiness

Posted
Posted

Well, you've actually got it backwards. The new version doesn't break old code. Old versions break new code. Every old-code project I've recompiled with 2.0 has compiled and run flawlessly, but 2.0 code that I try to run against 1.1 just crashes.

That's nothing new or terribly surprising. You can't, for example, run VB6 code on the VB4 runtime. Even Win32 code suffers from that, to some degree (there are plenty of APIs in Windows 2000 that won't run on NT4).

I would expect the language to evolve with each major release. Generics may not be something that the language absolutely NEEDS, but it's certainly welcome. Partial classes aren't really a must-have either, but they're certainly nice to have (good to get all of the initialization dreck away from my code).

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Enthusiast

dtmunir

Posted
Posted

ok everyone, lets kill the suspense, im here...muhahahhahaha (damn...dont know how long ive been dyin to say tht :p)

anywayz, i attended the Pakistan Developer's conference (PDC) held by microsoft from Jun 15-17, where they really showed us a LOT of Visual Studio 2005, so i may be able to answer a few questions:

- firstly, like dannysmurf said, .NetFramework 2.0 does NOT break old code. It is fully compatible with the old code, and yet provides new interfaces and classes for writing better, simpler code. So theres no loss for you. In fact you dont even need to worry about your old applications not working on clients who have the framework 2.0, as they will work seamlessly.

- secondly about the changes to C#, well im not muhc of a C# programmer, but IMHO the differences and improvements in C# 2.0 seemed to make a lot of sense. Basically they have made all efforts to try and sell C# over java, by eliminating the complaints programmers had with C#, implementing the remaing few features where Java still had an edge over C#, plus improve on developer productivity, by simplifying many tasks. So in short, now C# 2.0 is DEFINITELY better than Java, if you leave out the cross-platform compatibility bit (which in my opinion is a JOKE, as to be able to implement tht cross platform compatibility in most cases you have to write enough extra code to accomodate all scenarios as you would if you developed applications seperately for each platform. still thats debatable, and not the point of this topic, so lets not start flaming and move on)

- finally, the biggest question here of the "express edition" being different from standard and pro. well this answer might seem funny to some of you. In visual studio 2005, microsoft has made SO MANY improvements with the IDE, that they have taken it to a totally new level. It is simply unbelievable what microsoft has been able to acheive this time. you can imagine the extent of this over haul by the fact tht when the presenter at the PDC made a simple, single tier database applications only with mouse clicks, WITHOUT stupid crammy wizards, and yet with under 10 lines of code, all the developers where so stunned they even forgot to clap. People sitting around me had their mouths LITERALLY open. Microsoft has REALLY made developing applications on their platform VERY attractive by reducing the amount of code that requires to be written to almost 1/3rd of what it was. How they have done this: well, by making minor simple, yet brilliant architectural changes, and introducing MANY new extremely powerful controls, that make life a LOT simpler. Also they have dramatically improved working on Team Projects, and added a lot more functionality in terms of packaging and deployement etc. For eg for ASP.net 2.0, you no longer need IIS to be installed, as VS 2005 pro (and maybe also standard) will come with its own server, tht will be less resource intensive, and work much faster, yet emulate the real IIS, so basically in the development stages you will be able to work faster, and have more debugging features. Similarly the list of improvements just goes on and on.

Now the catch: the BULK of these improvements will be available in the Professional and Standard Editions of VS 2005 in my opinion, and from the hints the lady at the PDC gave. Basically what the express edition will be, is a slight upgrade to the previous VS 2003, with the interface borrowed from its bigger brother VS 2005 pro and standard, and the internal plumbing upgraded to .Net Framework 2.0, with only a very small chunk of the MAJOR improvements available in the FUll new IDE.

What this means: Well, i think this Express edition is still a great idea, and NOT a rip off as im sure some ppl are gonna start claiming after my post. Why? well simply because it is STILL an improvement over the prvious VS, it is going to be comparitively VERY VERY cheap, and for all practical purposes, it gives you full access to all the features of the .Net Framework 2.0. So theoretically speaking, any application made on the Pro edition can ALSO be made on the express editions, except that the programmer would have to write a lot more code by himself.

phew! i hope ive covered everything! Im going down for breakfast right now. will come back later and check if theres something missing. long typing sessions make me hungry :D

danish

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Community Regular

bwx

Posted
Posted
Well, you've actually got it backwards. The new version doesn't break old code. Old versions break new code. Every old-code project I've recompiled with 2.0 has compiled and run flawlessly, but 2.0 code that I try to run against 1.1 just crashes.

That's nothing new or terribly surprising. You can't, for example, run VB6 code on the VB4 runtime. Even Win32 code suffers from that, to some degree (there are plenty of APIs in Windows 2000 that won't run on NT4).

I would expect the language to evolve with each major release. Generics may not be something that the language absolutely NEEDS, but it's certainly welcome. Partial classes aren't really a must-have either, but they're certainly nice to have (good to get all of the initialization dreck away from my code).

That is certainly good to hear. From reading that page, I thought that these new features (like iterators) were meant to replace existing ones (implementing the IEnumerable interface, etc.). If they are not planning on breaking old code, new constructs are ofcourse, like you said, welcome.

One thing I wonder is if Microsoft is actually stating that new versions of .NET (and the languages) will not break old code, or is it just by chance that they compile and run correctly?

bwx

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Experienced

smurfiness

Posted
Posted
One thing I wonder is if Microsoft is actually stating that new versions of .NET (and the languages) will not break old code, or is it just by chance that they compile and run correctly?

Well, I think they're making a concerted effort to make sure that old code doesn't break. I mean, they're still trying to get .NET to catch on. The way to do that is NOT to make everyone rewrite their applications once a year.

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Grand Master

itsnotabigtruck

Posted
Posted

SQL Server 2005 Express will always be free (it says that on the MS site). The rest of them will be cheap (I'm guessing about $20 or $30 per product). SQL Server 2005 Express is like MSDE on steriods!

I can't wait until SQL Server 2005 Express Manager comes out. Finally, a free version of EM!

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