• 0

How to build an operaing system ?


Question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

"ReactOS is an Open Source effort to develop a quality operating system that is compatible with Microsoft Windows® applications and drivers."

"The kernel has come a long way and is quite stable and many APIs are complete enough for higher level work to be done. Substantial work has been done on many libraries. Initial networking code is there, but unusable for the moment. A basic implementation of the Graphics Device Interface (GDI) and a VGA graphics driver is paving the way for a GUI. The amount of developers is steadly increasing."

its realy nice os, and you can use losts of windows software on it

they even have a live cd version

  • 0

1- Mostly x86 Assembly and pure C, C++ was not really a good choice at that time

2-Run it under an emulator, Vitual PC and Vmware works fine, use bochs if you need a free one

3- You absolutely need know to x86 Assembly to make the Master Boot Record and some parts of the kernel. Assembly is the lowest level language you can program with if you dont want to learn all the x86 OPcodes. They are numbers that means something to the processor like making an addition etc...

4- Windows 95/98/me all relied on a dos subsystem, in Me it was simply hidden, you can even get a patch to return to DOS from Me. They just had no choice or else no one would be using windows at that time, because customers needed perfect compatibility wth DOS programs to use old softwares that was popular at that time. Window NT/2000/XP was made with stability in mind, not compatiblity, they are able to run DOS programs but in a CONSOLE which is not DOS but only program which tries to emulates. That's why a lot people complained about certain DOS programs not functionning correctly or at all with XP, XP was the first microsoft attempt to bring an NT OS to "normal" users. WinXP is just Windows 2000 with a better user interface and better compatibility with games, just look at the build numbers of win2000 & XP, 2000 is windows NT5 and XP is 5.1 . Longhorn, the next windows, will be windows version 6.0 which should be a significant upgrade from XP.

So... You want to make an OS, learn some assembly, pure C or C++ ( which is not as bad for that than it was before it was standardized ) and have lots of patience. Start by reading how to make MBR and some x86 specific stuff like gate A20, gdt, ldt , interrupts and last but not least, protected mode. If you don't know C/C++ start learning it before thinking of doing anything. And don't even think of doing a user interface before a lot of things is implemented. You actually have to reinvent the wheel, you have to access hardware like the video card directly to write something on the screen.

If anything i said is not 100% correct, just tell me in a correct way.

Thank you

  • 0
I can tell you that Windows is written in C and C++, with small amounts of assembly in places. Linux, mostly C++ from what I understand. DOS, who knows (or cares) ;)

Linux is written in C, Linus torvolds the creator has said a million times that C++ is slow because it has extra overhead. Just so you know ;)

  • 0
Linux is written in C, Linus torvolds the creator has said a million times that C++ is slow because it has extra overhead. Just so you know ;)

585816262[/snapback]

Got it (Y)

But you didn't need to revive the thread just to tell me that. You could have sent a PM or something ;)

  • 0
Wow, for such a smart guy(Linus), that sure is an ignorant thing to say.

585816478[/snapback]

But Linus is right. For an OS, you want to spend as little time in kernel space as possible and that means you don't want to deal with the overhead of C++ (exceptions, RTTI). Also, C++ uses a lot of stack space. You only have a limited stack (8k or 4k) in the kernel. Another feature of C++ that gets in the way is name mangleing(sp?). When you have to mix languages, dealing with name mangleing is one more thing you have to worry about.

  • 0
Thanks for bumping the thread. The first three pages are ****ing comedy!

585817579[/snapback]

Yes, it's extremely funny. Until you realize that these people aren't trying to be funny.

Now it starts to lose it's charm.

It starts to become disturbing. You realize that these people actually exist and that they actually think, speak and react in this manner. It's frightening to think that these people believe that they are being clever.

This does not bode well for the future of mankind. I don't think there's any legal way to stop them from spreading there malformed genes into future generations. You can't just go around shooting the idiots and dumping them into a big hole. Although I have considered it in the past. I don't think we'll get that far with that method.

We must educate the poor losers. We must somehow convince them that they should not reproduce.

Well this is far too deep of an issue for the pages at Neowin.

  • 0
But Linus is right.  For an OS, you want to spend as little time in kernel space as possible and that means you don't want to deal with the overhead of C++ (exceptions, RTTI).  Also, C++ uses a lot of stack space.  You only have a limited stack (8k or 4k) in the kernel.  Another feature of C++ that gets in the way is name mangleing(sp?).  When you have to mix languages, dealing with name mangleing is one more thing you have to worry about.

585817508[/snapback]

That's assuming you use RTTI, and program in an OO way. C++ doesn't force you to do either. Concerning mangling, extern "C" fixes that. Linus implies that you have to use all the features of C++, if he truly said what was posted. And if that is the case, that is why I think it was ignorant. I'd be surprised if Linus didn't have more to say about programming style instead of the language. You can program in an OO way in C, too.

  • 0

if your gonna make an OS.. make a good one for starters LOL

or even an OS, at your expierence level, i'd be surprized.

but lemme give you some advice...

an OS takes years and years to profect.. and you need to know ins and outs of computers

an OS is millions of lines of code. and... if you can get passed 10,000, i'll personally shake your hand.

im not trying to put you down, but look at how many employees work for microsoft. i bet more then 60% of them work in creating / improving, or in some sorta way, have their hand in the creation of an OS.

  • 0

Thanx a lot for people who posted links to learn from it, and no thanks for people who is trying to depress me. Just tell me what you know or stop posting.

Do i said that i want to make OS like windows :blink: , i just want to make an OS for my self, happy now !

*Thread redownloaded for summer holiday*

and please can some one help me in this thread :

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=311820

I think I will find my solution from Neowin.net after 10 useless posts :rolleyes:

  • 0
Not necessarily - Unix was created using C. So was Linux for that matter.

585819807[/snapback]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Assembly necessary at times, to interface with hardware? Like wouldn't Assembly be required to write some of the fundamental aspects which then a higher-level language can use off, i.e. C, C++.

Btw why the hell isn't this thread locked already?

  • 0
Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Assembly necessary at times, to interface with hardware? Like wouldn't Assembly be required to write some of the fundamental aspects which then a higher-level language can use off, i.e. C, C++.

Btw why the hell isn't this thread locked already?

585820040[/snapback]

The thread remains open because it is a valuable learning resource. It also demonstrates the complexity and sheer size of an operating system.

And assembly is necessary, at least for the kernel and some hardware interface. Unix was not created entirely with C code.

  • 0

first pages of this threads are jokes. but i guess he is learning. but i agree with something posted in here before: you should just do the shell for windows which will do all you want. now that would be useful and realistic. and i think it is the more important part of you final idea. and if you get your ai interface think to work nicely - that you can think of writing underluying ssytem. not before.

  • 0
The thread remains open because it is a valuable learning resource. It also demonstrates the complexity and sheer size of an operating system.

And assembly is necessary, at least for the kernel and some hardware interface. Unix was not created entirely with C code.

585820982[/snapback]

In that case perhaps you should strip away the non-informative bits of the thread if possible.

  • 0
Btw why the hell isn't this thread locked already?

.....

John:

The thread remains open because it is a valuable learning resource. It also demonstrates the complexity and sheer size of an operating system.

.....

In that case perhaps you should strip away the non-informative bits of the thread if possible.

585821443[/snapback]

:yes: :yes: :yes:

I tend to agree with Winston, this thread should be closed. maybe create a new sticky thread on building an OS?

I think we pick on Elagizy way too much in this thread to allow people to bring it to life again.

  • 0
WinXP has a command prompt, not DOS.

Just because it looks like DOS doesn't mean it is DOS.

585829659[/snapback]

correct.

earlier windows used DOS.. and i believe since windows NT, they changed to Command Prompt.

  • 0

The only DOS in Windows XP is the DOS virtual machine used for running legacy apps. This is not unlike what happens when you load Virtual PC. The DOS virtual machine thinks that it is DOS and thinks that it had direct access to the system, but really it's running in a "sandbox." When it makes a call to the hardware, Windows XP's compatability layer says "Oh, the DOS VM wants to access the hardware directly. That's not allowed any more, so I'll just give it the answer it wants and only pretend that it actually accessed the hardware."

Any non-blank autoexec files you find on your system are either:

A) Leftovers from a previous DOS/Windows 9x installation, or

B) Used to set environment variables (like the PATH statements posted before) so that programs running in the VM can find things they need.

There really isn't much more to it than that.

The Windows NT kernel bears no relation to DOS in any conceivable way. It most closely follows the design of OpenVMS (whose creators developed NT for Microsoft). In many ways it is comparable to the Mach kernel that Apple's OS X runs on top of. NT relies more heavily on threading, which makes it more scalable in multi-processor situations. However, both NT and Mach are built to be simple, versatile kernels on which you can run pretty much on any platform and support pretty much any user-space system (just like Apple runs FreeBSD on top of Mach, and Microsoft runs various "subsystems" on top of NT - including Win32, POSIX, OS/2, etc).

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Thanks
    • I actually got to use one of those so called "backup codes" once. It was for a customer, I choose the backup code option, and by the grace of god, they actually hade them printed out. Imagine my surprise, when after using the backup code, Google then told use we had to enter a code they just sent to the gmail address we currently did not have access to. I was not amused, Google backup codes should be the end all get out of jail free card, because you had to have access to the account to even get them.
    • On the topic of being locked out of a service. Recently two different friends of mine got locked out of their Google accounts. Both were hack attempts and one of them is waiting 30 days before he can get back in. He had backup codes and MFA but not a passkey. It was a browser token hack. Anyhow he has to wait 30 days for the dispute or whatever to end. The other person only had a password and is screwed losing all of the email, docs and years of photos. Google won’t help her at all. Her fault because she had no backup/recovery setup. Enable passkeys if possible. Also do NOT use browser based password managers. If using a cloud service make sure it is one you can fully sync to one of your devices so you can back it up. Like a PC or Mac with some backup drive plugged into it. Google is the worst to use IMHO. You can’t sync your photos at all. You have to use the “Take Out” service which is manual and takes days. That service strips the meta data from your photos. Also Google Docs synced to a device are useless without a Google accounts. MS Office/Libre Office is not going to open a link to a Google doc to a dead account.
    • Why you need to take back control of your synced passwords and how to go about doing that by Paul Hill Credit: Pixabay Last month, when Google decided to introduce daily and weekly caps for Gemini, it reignited an anxiety of mine, that you can’t really depend on service providers to maintain features forever, and it got me looking into free software (as in freedom) in other areas too. One app I quickly came across was KeePassXC on desktop and KeePassDX on Android as an alternative to password manager lock-in within the Chrome or Firefox ecosystems. I personally like to switch around with browsers, and using either password manager is inconvenient, so something like KeePassXC was interesting to me. The main issue with it now is syncing; I was not sure how to do that. After a bit of research, I came across Syncthing, a tool I was vaguely familiar with but had never used because it seemed complicated. However, I was completely wrong, and honestly, I think everyone should use it if they use multiple devices. It essentially lets you share folders peer to peer across all of your devices, no cloud services that you don’t control necessary! And it was fairly simple to set up, if not a bit clunky. Since setting it up, I’ve also started using Syncthing to back up other apps too, so don’t think it’s limited to just saving password databases. You can use it for pretty much anything you use Dropbox or Google Drive for. Before continuing to talk about those apps a bit more, let’s walk back a bit and talk about browser sync. Ever since the late 2000s and early 2010s, really, since we have been using smartphones, browser sync has been a necessity of life. I don’t know about you, but I have hundreds of passwords saved. For the most part, they’re all unique, so I don’t remember them and rely on software to manage them for me. Until recently, I’ve relied on password managers in Chrome and Firefox, but what I always found annoying was that it can be hard to transfer them between browsers. Sure, on Windows it is simple enough, but on Linux, exporting bookmarks has been temperamental. It works OK nowadays, but not too long ago, Chrome required you to enable exporting passwords in chrome://flags. The situation is even worse on mobile; there is no exporting or importing of passwords of any kind. You literally have to do it on a desktop, which is incredibly annoying in our mobile-first world. Sync also lets us take out bookmarks, history, tabs, and autofill data easily. To enable sync, it’s just a matter of signing into the browser once, and it handles the rest. It’s nice and easy. Obviously, all this has some issues, including those I’ve outlined above about it being hard to transfer data between browsers, but also things such as account suspension, lost account passwords, and other lock-in mechanisms, such as passkeys, being tied to a specific browser. On a sidenote, I have just removed all of my passkeys because they can make it harder to move browsers. I think the biggest threat to your synced passwords, especially if doing this with Google, is having your account suspended. I don’t ever expect mine to be suspended, but you do hear horror stories on Reddit where people lose access to their Google accounts. Imagine if you have hundreds of passwords, then suddenly lose access to them because Google froze your account, what would you do? So yes, it can be nice to use these syncing services for their convenience, but they also have risks. You may have seen me going on about free software quite a bit in my editorials. It’s essentially a concept championed by the Free Software Foundation. It’s software under particular licenses that grant you four freedoms: run the program for any purpose (0), study and change the source code (1), redistribute copies to others (2), and the freedom to distribute modified copies to others (3). For example, if there is an app I use and one day it gets abandoned by the developer, I can keep running it or even clone the software and continue developing it. Look at the myriad of cool services Google has run over the years before killing them. You can’t take the source code for those because they are proprietary, for the most part. Both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so I get the freedoms listed above. In my use case where I’m syncing a database full of my passwords, I also get proper ownership over my data, there is no losing access to the database due to a frozen account, I can access the code of the tools I’m using, and I can get support from real people online if I run into issues, rather than having to consult a vague help page from an opaque company. With the KeePassXC password manager, you create a .kdbx file, which is what will be synced between devices. KeePassXC has cross-platform apps and also has browser extensions so that the browser can fetch passwords from the database once it is unlocked. Meanwhile, Syncthing is a peer-to-peer file sync tool where you can select folders to sync between your devices. Just pop files in the folders you choose, and then they will be available across your other devices whenever they come online. Syncthing is resilient as it works over both LAN and the internet and only ever sends content between your devices, never to a third-party server somewhere else. By combining these two pieces of software, you can essentially replicate the browser sync functionality. I have had a weird, conflicting issue where a new file is appearing, but it doesn’t seem to be impacting my main password database, which is updating between devices just fine. If you want to get a setup similar to what I have, you will need to go here to download KeePassXC for your computer. Once you have that, you will need to download your passwords from your web browser to a CSV file. In Chrome, you can type chrome://password-manager/settings into the URL bar, and you should see an option to download your passwords under Export Passwords. This will give you the CSV file you need for importing into KeePassXC. If you use a different browser, just use a search engine and type “browser-name export passwords” and muddle along. In KeePassXC, you’ll want to press Import File from the home screen, select the CSV file, and create a new database from it. On one of the screens of the wizard, there will be a Title field with a drop-down selected to none. Change this to Title and continue. You’ll select a name for the database, the encryption level (the defaults are fine), and then you will pick a password. I would choose four unrelated words that are easy for you to remember, as you’ll be typing them fairly often to access your passwords. When you have all your passwords in your new database, you will want to set up the browser extension so that your browser can fetch passwords from KeePassXC. Rather than explain how to do that here, refer to KeePassXC’s guide on how to set it up properly. Once you’ve got that set up, you want to install KeePassDX on Android. You can grab it on the F-Droid store and the Google Play Store. For iPhone users, there are other .kdbx-supporting apps, but I haven’t tried any of them, so have a look around and use what suits you. Once you have that done, you will want to install Syncthing on your computer and find a third-party app for your mobile device. On Android, I use an app called BasicSync; there are also options for iOS, but again, I’ve not tried these. Once you’ve got SyncThing, you’ll want to set it up and connect all of your devices together and share a folder between your gadgets. PCWorld has a good tutorial on setting up a synchronized file between your devices using SyncThing. Once you’ve set it up, congrats, you’ll never have to touch that stuff again except for adding or removing devices. I’ll be honest, I didn’t particularly like setting up Syncthing. It didn’t take me a massive amount of time, but I think I had to check online because I found it a bit confusing. That said, I’ve had it running for several weeks now and never need to touch the Syncthing settings, so that’s very nice. I also mentioned a conflicting file. I’m not sure why this is appearing, but the main .kdbx file seems to be updating and syncing just fine. What’s nice is that both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so they won’t just vanish one day; you can take the code and fork the project or use a range of alternative implementations that others have made. It’s also nice that it works over LAN, so even if your ISP is having problems, your passwords will still sync. One area where you will want to be a bit more careful with this setup is if you only have one device. I am OK because I have a computer and two phones, all synced up. If you just have one device, you will probably want to store a backup of your .kdbx file somewhere else. Obviously, you’ll also want to remember your password really well, too. If you get locked out, it's game over. Overall, if you want to take back control of your computing from big tech, taking control of your passwords is an important part of this. You don’t need to immediately clear out your browser’s password manager; try running KeePassXC and the password manager concurrently for a while to see if you run into any problems. If you do try this out, let us know some other creative ways to use Syncthing. I haven’t really come up with a solution about what to do with my bookmarks, for example.
    • If the price was a dollar, someone would complain "Why isn't it free?" If it was free, someone would complain they weren't being paid to play it.
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      Supreme Spray LV earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Genuinetonerink- Dubai earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      hhgygy earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      AMV earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      513
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      163
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      88
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      74
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      73
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!