.msstyle releases illegal?

[matt0]

I've been following a topic on wincustomize for a while now. It's the dreaded .wba vs .msstyle debate.

Firstly, it's been said that .msstyle mods are actually illegal. That it's much like p2p for mp3's It's illegal but everyone does it anyway.

It's also been said that .msstyles wont work on the longhorn version, and everyone will have to use windowblinds.

Any truth in this?

[Harsh!]

I dont know about truth, but it sounds like a bit of fanboyism crap...ROFL

[matt0]

I hope so.

[Vice]

dunno I don't see how it can be illegal ... for 1 its all non-profit no one is making money out of it.

[leesmithg]

You know it isn't worth worrying about, always a way to fix things for the better :yes:

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

.msstyles files are not illegal, but the patch is, cause your modifying copyrighted microsoft files. (But with StyleXP you get away with that, cause it does a in memory patch, and that doesnt count)

Edit: they are probably right about longhorn though, most longhorn apps are vector based (so that poses a problem for windowblinds aswell) and .msstyles are designed for 96DPI screens. And the fact the the ui is radically different, new ui elements, so wb themes will have to be written for longhorn aswell) Also, if microsoft put the themeing engine in xp, they will most likely put a version in longhorn aswell.

[matt0]

One of the arguments made was that all .msstyles are based on Luna format, so.. theyre all mods and releases of Luna without permission.

Or something similiar to that.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

the msstyles format is not copyrighted to my knowledge, modifying the luna.msstyles file is breaking copyright, but making a file that mimicks it's format is not breaking copyright (it comes under fair-use laws)

Edit: If it was breaking copyright, would ms have worked with TGT Soft on StyleXP?

[matt0]

Didn't know that :o

[Axel]

Why did microsoft not just allow the posibilites of visual styles without a hack anyway? Is this something we might look forward to in longhorn... I mean it only represents a further flexibility with the OS, although I can imagine StyleXP and Stardock sueing MS if this was done for anti-competitiveness. It's already happened with windows media player ffs!

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I was wrong about the 96DPI thing in .msstyles, they support higher DPI's

I am sure i read about microsoft helping them on TGT Soft's page, i just got to find it.

And, Axel, Microsoft said they removed the ability for 3rd party themes incase the would get a flood of calls if users install bad theme files, and blame it on them (it was the right descision, those who want 3rd patry themes get them, those who dont never have to bother)

[ZZOOzzoo]

Why did microsoft not just allow the posibilites of visual styles without a hack anyway?  Is this something we might look forward to in longhorn... I mean it only represents a further flexibility with the OS, although I can imagine StyleXP and Stardock sueing MS if this was done for anti-competitiveness.  It's already happened with windows media player ffs!

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My point exactly.

I don't see any reason why they should limit us to only Luna or Classic.

[Japlabot]

if you read the EULA, it's Reverse Engineering/Disassembly. It is illegal.

About Longhorn support, It's extremely unlikely that either formats would be compatable with Longhorn, they will both have to be ported.

[Kane]

I am sure i read about microsoft helping them on TGT Soft's page, i just got to find it.

585235820[/snapback]

Uh huh.

You sure your not getting confused with the fact that Stardock worked

hand in hand with microsoft to develop the msstyles engine?

I have never heard such crap. Microsoft have never worked with TGT Soft.

I've been following a topic on wincustomize for a while now. It's the dreaded .wba vs .msstyle debate.

Firstly, it's been said that .msstyle mods are actually illegal. That it's much like p2p for mp3's It's illegal but everyone does it anyway.

It's also been said that .msstyles wont work on the longhorn version, and everyone will have to use windowblinds.

Any truth in this?

585235564[/snapback]

as far as i know. The gui will be totally diferent in longhorn and i wouldn't be suprised at all if only a form of program like windowblinds will be able to skin it,

Heck, maybe microsoft is putting a proper skining engine into longhorn. We have yet to see.

IMO it's to early to answer that question really.

[insanekiwi]

a mod to an msstlye is not illegal. that's crap (as long as you ask and get permission from the author/creator).

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

i know stardock worked hand in hand with ms to make the theming engine (why it works well), but i swear i read microsoft worked with tgt soft, even if it was only for technical support or something small, i swear.

[KoL Veteran]

Right now Longhorn (build 4074) use the msstyle format too but its a litle different. The image have one more stage (something like an animations) and it skins a lot more like toolbar buttons.

If Longhorn use similar msstyles in the final version maybe someone will cretae a XP mssstyle to Longhorn msstyle converter. Maybe in Stylebuilder?? :huh:

Here's what Im talking. The first one is the button image of Longhorn msstyle the second image is from XP msstyle.

[ZZOOzzoo]

a mod to an msstlye is not illegal. that's crap (as long as you ask and get permission from the author/creator).

585235905[/snapback]

I think they're talking about hacking uxtheme.dll.

[Diffused Mind]

Who cares if its illegal? :blink:

[#Michael]

Modifying and realsing a .msstyle is illegal according to the US DMCA. When you take a piece of code, modifiy it, repackge it, and release it to the world it is illegal. How ever harmless your intent was, that act was illegal as you violated MS intellictual property rights under the US DMCA.

Look at the original luna.msstyle that all .msstyles are based on. It has a copyright on it. That copyright and digital signature that comes with it belongs to Microsoft and gives them certain rights. Why they have not chosen to go after companies like tgtsoft or starskin is beyond me but it is true that Stardock and Microsoft DID work together to create the original uxtheme

The high school posters or college posters here may not care that creating a skin in a .msstyle format is illegal and they may even get a thrill out of doing so. But for those of us that want more, that like our computer to do more, and for those artists that make their living off of computer customization, .msstyles are illegal.

[KayMan2K]

Why [Microsoft has] not chosen to go after companies like tgtsoft or starskin is beyond me but it is true that Stardock and Microsoft DID work together to create the original uxtheme.

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Technically, modifying and reverse engineering a piece of software and all outcomes of the acts are illegal because of copyright law. However, Microsoft chooses not to enforce their copyright (on the file format) for themes, so themers are currently in no legal danger.

Microsoft decided not to open up the ability to make skins for Windows XP because (as previously stated) they did not wish the stability and visual aspects of their product to be compromised. Microsoft wants the desktop to look familar to all users, no matter what theme, and assures the start button and buttons follow similar design guidelines. Users could (and have) developed themes that hide the start button and similarly disguise other visual elements in an unusual fashion. Futhermore, it is reasonable to assume that errors with themes could create an unstable graphical subsystem and that .msstyle files can contain viruses/intentionally harmful code.

So, Microsoft chooses not to support and prohibit (by required themes to be digitally signed by Microsoft) theme development. However, WinXP is technically able to natively support themes and Microsoft has helped third parties to develop software that disables the 'digital signature required' aspect of the uxtheme.dll. It allows those who want to skin their computer the ability to do so if they install a third party product. And because they are installing a third party product Microsoft is not responsible for any adverse effects. Visual styles are new and perhaps Microsoft is still working out the bugs.

WindowBlinds uses a different method of skinning which does not rely on the OS as much. Therefore, can easily be adopted to Longhorn. Microsoft does not care about comptability between XP + Longhorn visual styles because they do not officially support theming. They have the flexibility to change whatever they need/want to.

The high school posters or college posters here may not care that creating a skin in a .msstyle format is illegal and they may even get a thrill out of doing so.

If the company which holds the copyright chooses not to enforce it then there is no danger. Microsoft's intesive legal team has not asked a single web site to stop hosting themes or sued any artists who distribute MSStyles. Clearly, Microsoft does not support editign of MSStyles but they also do not oppose it.

Edited January 5, 2005 by KayMan2K

[#Michael]

So, Microsoft chooses not to support and prohibit (by required themes to be digitally signed by Microsoft) theme development. However, WinXP is technically able to natively support themes and Microsoft has helped third parties to develop software that disables the 'digital signature required' aspect of the uxtheme.dll. It allows those who want to skin their computer the ability to do so if they install a third party product. And because they are installing a third party product Microsoft is not responsible for any adverse effects. Visual styles are new and perhaps Microsoft is still working out the bugs.

I'd like to see the evidence that Microsoft has ever worked with ANY company or software engineer to bypass the WFP system to get around the digital signature of either the uxtheme.dll or the digital signature of the .msstyle.

To date ONLY Stardock's windowblinds program has recieved the "designed for windows XP" logo from Microsoft.

Designed for Windows XP certified programs by Microsoft:

Desktop themes: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/catalog/d...ff13ea45b&tab=1

Edited January 5, 2005 by AthleticTrainer1981

[danshome]

To date ONLY Stardock's windowblinds program has recieved the "designed for windows XP" logo from Microsoft.

http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/mslogo3.gif

585236751[/snapback]

Which of course doesn't mean that they've worked with Microsoft either - only that they've been certified by Veritest that the program behaves nicely with Windows XP.

[Rudy]

both msstyle and wba wont work with longhorn when its released. wba might work with the curent alpha but i can garantee it wont work with the beta or final

[#Michael]

Which of course doesn't mean that they've worked with Microsoft either - only that they've been certified by Veritest that the program behaves nicely with Windows XP.

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From 2000-2001 when XP (then know as whistler) was in testing, Stardock was working with Microsoft to develop the uxtheme skinning engine. Consider the uxtheme to be a a stripped version of windowblinds, basically version 3 of WB.