.msstyle releases illegal?

[Slipdisc210]

I think MS could really care less

[danshome]

From 2000-2001 when XP (then know as whistler) was in testing, Stardock was working with Microsoft to develop the uxtheme skinning engine.  Consider the uxtheme to be a a stripped version of windowblinds, basically version 3 of WB.

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Not disputing that one way or the other. Only that having a Designed for XP logo meant that they worked with Microsoft (for example I'm perfectly entitled to use it and they've not come calling yet...)

[Veedems Veteran]

MS doesn't go after people releasing msstyles for the simple fact that, for many of us, it's what makes XP great and they would wind up ****ing off everyone and anyone by doing so. They're not stupid. They didn't add in official 3rd party support so that they weren't responsible for theme issues, but, at the same time, they knew 3rd party skins would push XP beyond any previous release of Windows.

[The Grasshopper]

wasn't microsoft a part of the GUI oplympics w/Stardock...i think they were...so that would put that to rest.

[PhenomTT]

Any type of altering/reverse enginering and distributeing, of others codes/intelectual property is illegal...end of story...anybody who claims different has no idea of which they are speaking...

unlike Litestep, MS Copyrighted files and code are NOT open source....

MS hasent gone after MS style makers simply because it isnt economically viable.... in other words MS hasent persued legal action purely because it's not worth their time ..not because their afraid of pis^%$ people off. even if they were to go after MS Styles makers/distributors... it wouldnt pis$%^$ off every body .. only those who use MS styles ;) ..

Stardock has a legal GUI enhancement program (Window Blinds) and has been working hand in hand with MS for a long time. to attack Stardock is like attacking Winamp, or other programs that offer free versions as well as Paid Enhanced versions...most things in life are not free...but yet Stardock offers a free version.. it would not suprise me if WB was compatable with Longhorn when it is released ;)

i have for years used WB along side my Litestep builds :cool: .. it is a stable program that works well and uses little resources.

you think MS really cares about popular opinion at this stage ?

unless your useing a MAC or linux based system.. you are stuck useing windows. a captive audience if you will.. so they can do whatever they want.. :p

David W.

[dragon2611]

microsoft are probably not that botherd about people using themes on windows xp however they got them on there as its affecting them really is it

after all microsoft are probably more concerned about their products being pirated than wether or not you've applied some theme patch to windows xp or not. assuming you have a licenced xp they probably aren't to bothered by the fact you may have changed its theme.

[SkinStudio]

MS hasent gone after MS style makers simply because it isnt economically viable.... in other words MS hasent persued legal action purely because it's not worth their time ..not because their afraid of pis^%$ people off. even if they were to go after MS Styles makers/distributors... it wouldnt pis$%^$ off every body .. only those who use MS styles  ;) ..

I think more than anything MS does not go after msstyles because it would be a bad PR on their side. I can imagine the riot suing a teenager making an msstyle would cause.

[PhenomTT]

True S.S..

i was simply responding to the fact that some think MS would be afraid to do it .. i recall not to long ago MS going after a kid who registered a web domain that Resembled the MS site ... they went after him with both barrels ... so it really boils down to what they percieve as threatening....

[bkellner]

When TGTSoft first released the patch it was borderline illegal, but Microsoft turned a blind eye. Later TGTSoft had a meeting with Microsoft, and made a presentation if I remember correctly, and Microsoft was okay with it.

Aparently, Microsoft doesn't care as long as they don't have to take support calls for 3rd party themes. Themeing the .msstyles files is something microsoft has wanted since they started working on XP, the only reason they didn't go through with it is because they didn't want to open up a line of tech support for that.

Also, editing a msstyle theme is not illegal. Microsoft is not losing money over this, so they really don't care.

[XP_01]

It's illegal because you're modifying system files without any permission of Microsoft (Microsoft states that you may not mod any systemfiles), so basically you're also practising illegal activities when customizing your shell32.dll file or whatever. I'm not entirely sure if I'm correct but I thought it was something like that.

Meaning that a company doesn't lose any money doesn't immediately mean that something isn't illegal. Most of the time it has to do with money, but it's not necessarily always that way.

About the Longhorn thing:

The current Windows XP .mmstyles won't work with Longhorn but that isn't strange at all because Longhorn's architecture will be entirely different. But I'm sure we'll be able to mod Longhorn's system files, it's already being done with the leaked alphas. I don't see how those WindowBlinds people can say that you'll be forced to use WindowBlinds when nobody outside of Microsoft knows for sure how Aero will be like and what type of files/file extensions are being used.

Edited January 5, 2005 by XP_01

[frogger]

Quick question, is it illegal to use them or to distribute them? Should i unpatch, or is it not serious?

[PhenomTT]

at this point ...you prolly dont need to sweat it ...

[PhenomTT]

MS has not sought legal recourse from users or those who are distributeing ....but it is with in their legal range to do so if they wish...

my gripe is with those who are throwing a fit about people "possibly" infringeing on their rites (useing the autoporter in SKS) while saying distributeing (cough) "borrowed" MS files is legal....... talk abut the friggin hipocracy there....

[DigitalFreedom]

Technically, modifying and reverse engineering a piece of software and all outcomes of the acts are illegal because of copyright law.  However, Microsoft chooses not to enforce their copyright (on the file format) for themes, so themers are currently in no legal danger.

Microsoft decided not to open up the ability to make skins for Windows XP because (as previously stated) they did not wish the stability and visual aspects of their product to be compromised.  Microsoft wants the desktop to look familar to all users, no matter what theme, and assures the start button and buttons follow similar design guidelines.  Users could (and have) developed themes that hide the start button and similarly disguise other visual elements in an unusual fashion.  Futhermore, it is reasonable to assume that errors with themes could create an unstable graphical subsystem and that .msstyle files can contain viruses/intentionally harmful code.

So, Microsoft chooses not to support and prohibit (by required themes to be digitally signed by Microsoft) theme development.  However, WinXP is technically able to natively support themes and Microsoft has helped third parties to develop software that disables the 'digital signature required' aspect of the uxtheme.dll.  It allows those who want to skin their computer the ability to do so if they install a third party product.  And because they are installing a third party product Microsoft is not responsible for any adverse effects.  Visual styles are new and perhaps Microsoft is still working out the bugs.

WindowBlinds uses a different method of skinning which does not rely on the OS as much.  Therefore, can easily be adopted to Longhorn.  Microsoft does not care about comptability between XP + Longhorn visual styles because they do not officially support theming.  They have the flexibility to change whatever they need/want to.

If the company which holds the copyright chooses not to enforce it then there is no danger.  Microsoft's intesive legal team has not asked a single web site to stop hosting themes or sued any artists who distribute MSStyles.  Clearly, Microsoft does not support editign of MSStyles but they also do not oppose it.

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I just want to add, that its LAW that if someone does not go after a copyright, they forfit all rights to that copyright, so to end all this fightting.. BECAUSE MICROSOFT CHOICE NOT TO BRING LEGAL ACTION AGINIST TGT SOFT, *.MSSTYLE THEMERS, UXTHEME.DLL HACKERS, MICROSOFT HAS FORFITED ALL RIGHTS THAT IT MIGHT OF HAD TO THE FORMAT, so don't worry about it guys its 100% legal, and calm down. BIG MS isn't going to go after you, its too late, ms had something like 1 year to begin legal actions before the US law forfitted its rights, and XP's been released for what 3 years now? Even if MS wanted to, its too late and they would'nt even get past the filing lady. either way, TGT Soft had a meeting with microsft a LONGGGGG time ago, and showed ms how there doing it, and MS gave them the green light to keep doing it, MS WANTED THEMEING in XP, just they didn't want to waste more money on a themeing support line, so they made sure the NORMAL NON-GEEKY USER couldn't install themes, think of it this way.... Has MS made it harder to make mstyles? No, they could of, but they didn't.

Edited January 5, 2005 by DigitalFreedom

[SkinStudio]

I just want to add, that its LAW that if someone does not go after a copyright, they forfit all rights to that copyright, so to end all this fightting.. BECAUSE MICROSOFT CHOICE NOT TO BRING LEGAL ACTION AGINIST TGT SOFT, *.MSSTYLE THEMERS, UXTHEME.DLL HACKERS, MICROSOFT HAS FORFITED ALL RIGHTS THAT IT MIGHT OF HAD TO THE FORMAT, so don't worry about it guys its 100% legal, and calm down. BIG MS isn't going to go after you, its too late, ms had something like 1 year to begin legal actions before the US law forfitted its rights, and XP's been released for what 3 years now? Even if MS wanted to, its too late and they would'nt even get past the filing lady. either way, TGT Soft had a meeting with microsft a LONGGGGG time ago, and showed ms how there doing it, and MS gave them the green light to keep doing it, MS WANTED THEMEING in XP, just they didn't want to waste more money on a themeing support line, so they made sure the NORMAL NON-GEEKY USER couldn't install themes, think of it this way.... Has MS made it harder to make mstyles? No, they could of, but they didn't.

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ROFLMAO, :rolleyes:

this is really funny you should say that in the light that they have recently applied for a patent for them. :whistle:

[PhenomTT]

Dig Freedom.......hmmm you better explain that to the music industry then....

music has been pirated since pc's were built ..but since it took them a year or so to actually start acting on it .. they must have forfited all their rights....

i mean if your asertation of the law is correct .... :woot:

Edited January 5, 2005 by PhenomTT

[Kane]

Dig Freedom.......hmmm you better explain that to the music industry then....

music has been pirated since pc's were built ..but since it took them a year or so to actually start acting on it .. they must have forfited all their rights....

i mean if your asertation of the law is correct .... :woot:

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uhm. technically... music has been pirated ever since the cassette was invented. :sleep:

[PhenomTT]

ok well i was thinking more along the lines of digital piracy ..

and technically it would have began with the 8 track :whistle:

[Kane]

ok well i was thinking more along the lines of digital piracy ..

and technically it would have began with the 8 track  :whistle:

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:p

[PhenomTT]

hehehehe... :)

[Yazoo]

If it was illegal then so would installing software that changes the way the default OS worked. In other words any software. Well we know that ain't true.

If mssstyles was illegal then MS would have made a move already.

[Kane]

If it was illegal then so would installing software that changes the way the default OS worked.  In other words any software.  Well we know that ain't true. 

If mssstyles was illegal then MS would have made a move already.

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But it's not changing the way it works. It's changing the way it looks.

[Yazoo]

But it's not changing the way it works. It's changing the way it looks.

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Installing any software changes the way the OS looks as well as the way it works.

[KoL Veteran]

This is pontless.

Why we care if its illegal or not?? Microsoft doesnt care.

[PhenomTT]

to take a copywrited file edit it to your chooseing then uploading as your own or even selling it ..thats a different than simply installing an antivirus software......