History of the Middle Finger!

By ConfusedFusion
in General Discussion

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Grand Master

Jon

Posted
Posted
The ancient Romans were aware of the middle finger as an undiplomatic gesture. The story of the British archers was totally made up after the fact.

There is quite a bit of confusion here, it's funny!

The English Archers story is well known and seems to be generally trusted amung historians, but it relates to 'giving someone the Vs, the two finger salute', etc, which is NOT the middle finger as the rest of the world knows it. It is infact a backwards 'v for victory' (ie: nails away from you). I've *never* heard the 'pluck you' bit before, it sounds like someone has got a little carried away there.

If unsure, go phone Richard Holmes or read / watch his war walks series as a nice easily obtainable reference.

Infact, I think this is a quote from one of his books:

The archers of Crecy and Agincourt have left their mark upon us in the strangest ways. The less than polite gesture of extending two figures in a derisive version of the Churchillian V sign dates back to the Hundred Years War. Captured archers sometimes had two cut fingers from their right hands to prevent them drawing a bow again - cruel, perhaps, but less cruel than execution and cheaper than perpetual imprisonment. An archer, temporarily at a disadvantage and scuttling for cover, might disdainfully flaunt the appropriate digits as he reached refuge to show that he was still intact, and would be back - with a bow in his hand and arrows in his belt.

And yes, making this gesture at an English / British person will offend them, it's not used too much any more, was more so when I was a littleun though.

Grand Master

lav-chan

Posted
Posted

Aristophanes used the middle finger as an obscene gesture in his play, 'The Clouds', c. BCE 423. The Romans borrowed it (like everything else) from the Greeks, and even emperors used it in a derogatory way.

Using the two-finger thing as an insult to the French i had heard before, but it's certainly not related to the middle finger, and (as was said) most of the junk in this particular story was extremely exaggerated.

Grand Master

Jon

Posted
Posted

History isn't as boring as it sounds, it's amazing how many of our day to day sayings come from the British Navy during the Napoleonic period for example (see if you can guess what they meant originally, they arn't all from the Navy):

three square meals a day

learning the ropes

flash in the pan

mad as a hatter

freeze the balls of a brass monkey

ship of the line

shiver me timbers (seriously.. it actually means something!)

give them the full 9 yards

use your loaf (that one is debatable)

Veteran

ConfusedFusion

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Nice to see it didn't take too long to dispel this particular myth.? Good work fellow neowinians.

just because you read it in an email doesn't make it true.

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dont take it too personal man:pp , just a reading to kill a few minutes at office;)).

Grand Master

kjordan2001

Posted
Posted (edited)
A popular, but apocryphal, story derives it from the gestures of English archers at Agincourt. The myth claims that the French cut off fingers from archers, and that the 'finger' was a sign of defiance by those who retained their fingers. The same story also claims that '**** you' is a corruption of 'pluck yew' since bows were made of yew, or the phrase "I can still pluck you!". While it has been debunked many a time, this story still crops up.

It's false. According to the wikipedia link a few posts up it's supposed to protect yourself from another's witchcraft because it looks like a penis :laugh:

Edited by kjordan2001
Mentor

NeoSigma

Posted
Posted 

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I'm pretty sure I read that story on this forum a long while ago. :D

Grand Master

linsook

Posted
Posted 
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