Is Opera turning into Firefox?

[mr_skrilla]

Also it is not that they have the features or do not have the features it is how they are implemented. Some browsers (FF) implemented features in a much, nicer, user friendly way... while others browsers (Opera) implement them in a way that is hard to use and ugly.

[vcv]

Also it is not that they have the features or do not have the features it is how they are implemented. Some browsers (FF) implemented features in a much, nicer, user friendly way... while others browsers (Opera) implement them in a way that is hard to use and ugly.

585895271[/snapback]

Mind giving some examples buddy? You need to walk the walk, and not just talk.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

This should be titled,.

    IS FF TURNING INTO IE :

http://secunia.com/advisories/15292/

585891836[/snapback]

maybe "Thingfish is turning into a troll" would be more suitable?

The thread topic is a bit funny, looking at Firefox's recent additions of the Opera-style fast back/forward and the SVG support.

585895246[/snapback]

SVG in opera was just finished first, if you wanted it, you could enable it at build from trunk builds.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

I tried to get opera looking like firefox, because my firefox folders are filled with spy/adware and crap, infact, my whole pc is filled with it and it all comes in through firefox!

585891531[/snapback]

What sites have you got in your allowed list for "sites allowed to install software"?

if it's nothign but "update.mozilla.org" then somehow I think you're mistaken.

[megamanXplosion]

So I guess it works in both ways. Maybe one day they'll merge into a true IE Killer, marketed by Google with the name... Gbrowser!

I don't want the Mozilla Foundation to grab a large share of the market; afterall, it is just Netscape with ex-employees and a lower budget and they behaved exactly like Microsoft when they were on top those few years ago (sat on their butts doing nothing); then a decade later there will be another challenger which has to take on Netscape. We still can't fully get rid of Netscape 4 for crying out loud, let's not prolong anything like that again...

I would also like to keep Google out of the picture. Gbrowser would likely become "Research Ware"; every page that you view would be sent through Google's proxy so they can log your internet activities, insert ads into pages, and never release a stable build. Not to mention that a company like Google would be nearly impossible to take down and would likely crush all innovation on the web for many decades. Screw that.

I think that if anyone were to topple Microsoft, I would hope that it would be Opera Software, I think they would be the most responsible with that kind of power over the market. But, I don't know if I could fully trust Opera Software in that position, absolute power can corrupt absolutely. What the web browser world needs is exactly what it's transitioning to: a dynamic equalibrium which encourages innovation and standardized rendering techniques to improve the web and not control it.

Also it is not that they have the features or do not have the features it is how they are implemented. Some browsers (FF) implemented features in a much, nicer, user friendly way... while others browsers (Opera) implement them in a way that is hard to use and ugly.

much nicer, user friendly way = search for extensions, download and install them, and when you update the core browser you have to go through the extension handler to download updates for the extensions and then pray that it works afterwards, let alone work together "good".

hard to use and ugly = going through a preferences dialog and selecting what features you want to use and are updated WITH the application and are ensured to work together in a seemless and productive way.

I don't know about anyone else, but your comments seem backwards to me...

SVG in opera was just finished first, if you wanted it, you could enable it at build from trunk builds.

Opera didn't finish it first; rather, they did make it usable first. Mozilla has been making builds since Firefox 0.7 which sometimes included SVG and sometimes didn't; they simply haven't delivered it in a way which was usable for web developers (in other words, Firefox's support for it has been completely pointless thus far.)

What sites have you got in your allowed list for "sites allowed to install software"?

if it's nothign but "update.mozilla.org" then somehow I think you're mistaken.

I think he's mistaken either way you look at it. Firefox has a few security problems (nothing really serious unless you've added your own entries to the allowed-list), but I highly doubt that you are experiencing your problems from them. My guess is that you installed Java and you mindlessly (no offense intended) click "Yes", "Ok", and "Install" buttons. Then when you realized that the java game you were playing has installed software, you blame Firefox for being insecure. Like I said earlier, I highly doubt that your problems are from Firefox, they're probably caused by your own actions and no browser available can save you from that.

[dreamthief]

Then when you realized that the java game you were playing has installed software, you blame Firefox for being insecure. Like I said earlier, I highly doubt that your problems are from Firefox, they're probably caused by your own actions and no browser available can save you from that.

585897458[/snapback]

I totally agree. I dont understand the which is the safest browser and etc who created what first, who copied who.

I am currently using Firefox because, I want tab browsing, NA for IE and I hate looking at ads, like the freeware Opera version (I dont intend to pay for it either). So i stucked with Firefox.

My requirements might be similar or totally different. But i am fine with it, cause it suits me.

[em_te]

Another thing to ask is: "Is Firefox turning into Opera?"

http://newblog.fallingbeam.org/blog/archiv...ox_worship.html

[Chlorpromazine]

CSS positioning is bad in Opera, infact, i would say that IE is better than Opera for rendering.

585891721[/snapback]

I write pages in standard XHTML/CSS, and Opera is the only browser that can display CSS the way I intended them to be. Have you got some example of CSS-based page that does not render correctly?

[Chlorpromazine]

Even if Opera and Firefox have the same features, Firefox is the only one of the two that does them correctly, every time. I purchased Opera 8.0 on the day of release, that thing is ****ty to say the least.

-More unexplained rendering errors.

-Gmail will load, but it isn't displayed.

-Random crashing.

-Slowing browsing, so much for being the fastest browser.

Firefox > Opera

585891522[/snapback]

1. I never got a rendering error in Opera. Oh, I mean... if the page is properly written.

2. Gmail works perfectly since relase 8 (and beta3).

3. Opera 8 never crashed on my computer. Betas did, but it's not surprising.

4. It's universally stated that PRESTO is the fastest rendering system on earth. And, IMHO, it's perfectly true.

[BoundToEarth]

Opera is trying to lure users that use Firefox over to their side. Its related to business. :p

[Chlorpromazine]

You know what? That's funny because I, too, am a web developer and coder and I can say that Opera is equally great with Firefox in terms of displaying, just that Opera draws faster. Don't know what you're talking about.  :huh:

I sometimes experienced rendering faults in Firefox. For example, try to open my weblog. The search field within the heading image is only positioned correctly with Opera.

There are just two problems with Opera :

1. Stop making it a suite of applications or make both - Opera suite and Opera standard

2. The GUI... too complicated (they are working on it, I know), the banner (that's a tough one to deal with for them...) and those buttons who turns yellow... they're actually quite ugly. I feel bad to say that though because it's a nice effect. The layout is nice though, but windows xp standard would be better. They should just use the standard windows XP GUI. The only applications that I know of and that are nice with non-windows GUI are Windows Media Player 8+ and Winamp5.

585891538[/snapback]

Opera Suite, as you call it, is not so bloated and invasive to justify making two different download packaging. I don't use M2 for mail, and I've never seen traces of it in my browser since I didn't activate an account in Opera. Same for RSS, IRC Chat and Newsgroups.

[Cyranthus]

i like how Opera was the one who came up with more than half of the features in Firefox, and not to mention is WAY older than Firefox, and then Opera is the one being blamed for being more like Firefox.... ironic dont you think?

[muaddib2004]

M2 takes up around 350 k, and is necessary for RSS and newsgroups. Why remove 350 k and an option you may or may not ever use? For myself, I had been using Opera for over a year before I started using M2, so I'm glad they didn't take it out of the browser.

[Alex Suraci]

I agree 100% with the first post. :p To be honest Firefox is just another overrated web browser. It breaks few if not no grounds (That sentence sounds wierd :unsure:), but people still advertise it any chance they get. Heck, half of the sigs here are are 'riced' with GetFirefox signatures. :pinch:

Opera isn't even as bloated as everyone claims it is. None of it is obtrusive, the mail is only an option and you can open it whenever you want, you can hide toolbars you don't want, and even the memory useage is smaller. :ninja:

[muaddib2004]

mynimal, going to have to disagree with you on a few parts. Memory usage between the two is comparable. a difference of maybe half a megabyte. However, with both Thunderbird and FF open, the memory difference becomes much more noticable. And yes, some people would consider Opera bloated, but bloated with features. I can understand that, different strokes for different folks.

All in all, though, I'd rather a browser known for innovation and perfection rather than a year old upstart.

[Alex Suraci]

Well Opera is perfect for me, so I'm sticking with it. :D I used to use Firefox all the time, but then I tried opera 8. I tried Firefox again but then I left it after 5 minutes. For me Firefox took about 80 megs of memory while Opera took only 40-50. :)

[jedrzej]

And yes, some people would consider Opera bloated, but bloated with features.

yeah... but why? You can never touch those features. And there they are.. sitting and doing nothing and Opera is still smaller and much more responsive in terms of UI than the XULlish(pardon, but XUL is one hell of a bloat) Firefox.

[muaddib2004]

oh, i understand all that perfectly, but not a lot of foxheads do, or seem not to at least.

And don't get me started on the superiority to a program written in assembly code (Opera) over one written in XUL

[megamanXplosion]

Opera's not written in Assembly. It is written in C++ using the Qt application framework with some hand-coded additions to create the Quick interface system (home-brewed solution for making the application customizable). Some of the rendering engine might be written in Assembly, but I simply can't imagine there being enough performance benefit to justify the extra development work to maintain assembly code. While I'm positive that there are a lot of optimizations done, I don't really think assembly plays a large part in it. Though I would have no hard feelings if I were wrong ;)

My guess is that Opera simply utilizes memory and other resources more advantageously than other browsers. Opera keeps practically everything it can in RAM so it has incredibly fast access to anything it may require. I've also noticed that Opera typically uses more threads for programming routines (turn on the "Threads" column in Task Manager), which should result in better multi-tasking capabilities. Those are the two primary reasons, as far as I can tell, for it's responsiveness.

And I agree with you guys about XUL, bloat.

[vcv]

AFAIK, the windows version does not use Qt at all.

Also, I'm sure the x86 versions have some assembly optimizations in there (maybe through the use of MMX or SSE) where it counts.

[worbd]

The thread topic is a bit funny, looking at Firefox's recent additions of the Opera-style fast back/forward and the SVG support.

Don't forget spatial navigation, another feature they've bragged about recently which was invented by Opera.

Also it is not that they have the features or do not have the features it is how they are implemented. Some browsers (FF) implemented features in a much, nicer, user friendly way... while others browsers (Opera) implement them in a way that is hard to use and ugly.

I shouldn't feed the troll, but Opera's features clearly fit more smoothly together in an integrated package, whereas Firefox extensions go in all directions, causing stability problems and clutter. Everything in Opera works together to make everything faster. Extensions work separately. It's called polish, and Opera has it.

SVG in opera was just finished first, if you wanted it, you could enable it at build from trunk builds.

"SVG support" means that it should at least work. Nightlies haven't had properly working SVG support. Opera had SVG first.

Opera's not written in Assembly. It is written in C++ using the Qt application framework with some hand-coded additions to create the Quick interface system

Nope, Opera doesn't use Qt at all, except for a few system dialog boxes on Unix. But not on other platforms.

[temple_treefrog]

I shouldn't feed the troll, but Opera's features clearly fit more smoothly together in an integrated package, whereas Firefox extensions go in all directions, causing stability problems and clutter. Everything in Opera works together to make everything faster. Extensions work separately. It's called polish, and Opera has it.

585912678[/snapback]

I agree. The only reason I use Opera over Firefox (I've installed FF but never used it thoroughly) was because of Firefox's interface. I know it's very customisable but so is Opera, and I think Opera does the job much better.

[Chode]

It's called polish, and Opera has it.

585912678[/snapback]

Opera has Poland? :huh:

LOL, just kidding. I like that, you've worded what I have been trying to say for a long time.

[fmxer]

You people are disgusting. Get over your stupid browsers.

What does it matter if your neighbour, Billy Bob, uses Firefox/Internet Explorer/Opera? Why do you care? It's not as if he is installing spyware on your system by using his "less secure" browser.

Move on... :sleep:

Why don't we all start a thread "OMGz0r! My NikE Shoo's R tEh beTT3r den ur lamez0r Adidaz0rs!"

[Chode]

OMGz0r! My NikE Shoo's R tEh beTT3r den ur lamez0r Adidaz0rs!

585917100[/snapback]

Right on! (Y)