"Some Dev Quotes from Edge on PS3/X360"


Recommended Posts

New Edge is out, they have a fairly large number of pages covering next-gen hardware - it's the cover story. While I think Edge's own editorial on the matter is a bit of a mixed bag and not that enlightening, there were some perhaps interesting comments from a number of different devs. Believe it or not, this is just a small part of them (they've full interviews with one or two of the devs, and then smaller from more scattered all over the place, some more tech orientated than others) - so I hope it's OK to quote them here:

Mark Rein (Epic)

On PS3 UE3:

"It took less than a week to get the engine up and running, without rendering, with just wireframe rendering - out at Sony's office. The first couple of days the guys were just playing - we had no idea they would come home with a working engine. That surprised us because you know it has a new processor and all. And then once we got the kit it took a couple days to get it rendering, and maybe another week or two to make it fast and efficient and learn our way around it."

On PS3 dev kit:

"Any time we created any content it looked exactly  the same on PC as it did on PS3. The only thing was, even though we had these ass-kicking Nvidia 6800 Ultra SLI systems, when we got the actual RSX card, even though it's not running anywhere near full speed, it was more than twice as fast as our SLI setup."

(over 2x SLI?!)

"It's a Cell processor and an RSX. Those are the main components of PS3. There are going to be other faster things than we had in the devkit. You've heard about their amazing memory bandwidth - this doesn't have any of that. The early kits are fast like that but they have Cell and RSX so it really is a perfect development station for PS3 and anything you run on it is only going to run a hell of a lot faster on final hardware, not slower - you're not going to get any surprises or lose any features".

On X360

"It (non final X360 kit) is about 30 percent right?

We think it's 25% [chuckles] That's why we weren't showing on a devkit. We told them there's no way we're showing our game on a devkit. We have UE3 running on devkits - that's how we got all these licensees - but... we think it's crazy. But we're not a launch title so we have a little extra time."

SN Systems (Middleware):

"The overall impression that we have with developers is that everyone perceives the PS3 to be slightly or significantly more powerful than 360. That's going to make quite a difference, since everyone's pushing high def so hard. High def means a lot more pixels being drawn, a lot more throughput, so that little bit more power PS3 has could be quite significant. But what you have to bear in mind is that peoples' perception of the PS3 is based on what they think they're going to be getting in devkits in probably a few months time rather than on what they have now. And also that the Xbox dev kits are not yet full speed either."

"Currently there are a lot more X360 dev kits out there than PS3, so the natural lead platform right now is Xbox. And if Microsoft can hang on to that, even if PS3 is more powerful, if games are converted from 360 to PS3, they're not going to be inclined to make the most of the PS3's power. But if PS3 devkit volume ramps up, and developers are comfortable enough working with it - there's a lot of "ifs'" in this! - but if they find it easy enough to work from, then they'll make it the lead platform and then that bit of power will make a real difference."

"If one machine is much easier to develop for than the other, it could have a significant advantage in early titles. Microsoft's earlier start may help it but it remains to be seen if that lead will last as developers take on more PS3 development. I don't think it's yet clear whether one of the next-gen machines will be easier to develop for than the other."

On Cell:

"Since these different parts (SPEs) can all access their own memory at full speed simultaneously, it should give the PS3 a significant performance advantage if you can program to take advantage of this. Just how big an advantage this really is remains to be seen, and will be down to good tools and clever programming by the game and middleware developers"

Andrew Richards of Codeplay (Middleware):

"The move from singlecore to multicore CPUs is going to be a major disruptive change. For launch titles, developers will just run the main C++ code on one core processor and try to farm out processor intensive work to other processors. This will work for a while, but not forever. It's too labour intensive and doesn't scale."

I won't quote everything here - buy the mag! - but these were the more interesting quotes I found..

[source: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=55531 ]
Elsewhere, ATi apparently thinks the jump from the alpha X360 hardware at E3 to final hardware is more like 2x, not over 3x as MS suggests. But the same rep (Richard Huddy) also makes some very silly comparisons with PS3 - doh - but I guess he has too.
[source: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=55531 ]
Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/345223-some-dev-quotes-from-edge-on-ps3x360/
Share on other sites

interesting.

it seems it isn't difficult at all to develop for the PS3, huh? this could turn out to be pretty interesting for Sony.

aaaand.... something's wrong with the XBOX 360... ATI says 2?.... MS says 3?.... Epic says 4?... weeeei:p :p

guess we'll have to wait and s:) :)

hmm, im just sitten back till september for ps3 at tokyo game show. But this adds to my theory and also on g4tv (not my favorite show by anymeans or network) they had the insomniac studios guy on there and he was talking about the ps3 dev kit and was saying it was easy to design for and has A LOT of power compared to current dev kits (aka xbox 360).

Like I keep saying im holding off lot of it is just talk and rumors.

Fact 1: He says RSX is two times as powerful as SLI. 2 weeks ago we got the news from Sony itself the RSX chip hasnt even been made yet, and this interview in 2 months old. Either its a misqoute or miscommunication.

Fact 2: The current PS3 development kits are a 2.8 Ghz Cell (which is more powerful than 2x2.5 Ghz G5) and a SLI 6800(which is more powerful than X800 but same as Crossfire X800) so its basically wrong to say PS3 is substantially more powerful than Xbox 360 because the Cell chip is finalized by Sony while they are just waiting for Taping out RSX which will be done in August. The Xbox GPU was taped out in december last year and has gone through testing up until now, the same process will go through with the RSX which is based on the G70 according to the words of Mark Riegn

Fact 3: Mar Reign is a supporter and sponsor of Nvidia. Do you actually think he will favor ATI openly? and not favor Nvidia Openly?

Fact 4: Who is SN systems?? let me tell you : http://www.snsys.com/Products/ They have never supported Xbox in the first place. all thier games are either on Sony console and handhelds or Nintendo console and handhelds

Fact 5: ATI never said its 2 or 3 times more powerful than Alpha kits. They say its 30% of the final hardware. Link me to thier qoutes

Fact 6: http://www.codeplay.com/products/index.html Codeplay already has made a special compiler for the Emotion Engine in C++ while we know Cell is a highly bumped up version of the EE. Codeplay has never made a game on a microsoft system

EDIT: http://www.gamestar.de/magazin/specials/ha...6071/index.html

here is the interview by Richard Huddy to which Edge refers to. Find me where he says the alpha kit is 2x less powerful than Final hardware

Edited by OrangeSoul
On PS3 dev kit:

"Any time we created any content it looked exactly  the same on PC as it did on PS3. The only thing was, even though we had these ass-kicking Nvidia 6800 Ultra SLI systems, when we got the actual RSX card, even though it's not running anywhere near full speed, it was more than twice as fast as our SLI setup."

586225083[/snapback]

Stopped reading there. :rofl:

Although I'm a fan of the Unreal Engine, Mark Rein is just trying to sell as many licences of the engine as he can, he is not taking sides with anyone.

586225985[/snapback]

Yes, the hype surrounding UE3 engine is 'ginormous' even at this point.

The Gears of War (x360) demo you saw was running on a dual x86 machine with SLI cards.

586225985[/snapback]

Um, no. The UT2007 Demo at Sony E3 conference was run on the 6800 SLI setup. Gears of War was running on dual G5s with a single X800.

yeah i agree we have to wait and see what they can do .. i believe that even when they are going to be released we wont be able to see a 4x or even 2x diffrence in quality for titles .. since both systems have really great graphic and cpu sets ..

200th post yay :D

Fact 1: He says RSX is two times as powerful as SLI. 2 weeks ago we got the news from Sony itself the RSX chip hasnt even been made yet, and this interview in 2 months old. Either its a misqoute or miscommunication.

Fact 2: The current PS3 development kits are a 2.8 Ghz Cell (which is more powerful than 2x2.5 Ghz G5) and a SLI 6800(which is more powerful than X800 but same as Crossfire X800) so its basically wrong to say PS3 is substantially more powerful than Xbox 360 because the Cell chip is finalized by Sony while they are just waiting for Taping out RSX which will be done in August. The Xbox GPU was taped out in december last year and has gone through testing up until now, the same process will go through with the RSX which is based on the G70 according to the words of Mark Riegn

Fact 3: Mar Reign is a supporter and sponsor of Nvidia. Do you actually think he will favor ATI openly? and not favor Nvidia Openly?

Fact 4: Who is SN systems?? let me tell you : http://www.snsys.com/Products/ They have never supported Xbox in the first place. all thier games are either on Sony console and handhelds or Nintendo console and handhelds

Fact 5: ATI never said its 2 or 3 times more powerful than Alpha kits. They say its 30% of the final hardware. Link me to thier qoutes

Fact 6: http://www.codeplay.com/products/index.html Codeplay already has made a special compiler for the Emotion Engine in C++ while we know Cell is a highly bumped up version of the EE. Codeplay has never made a game on a microsoft system

EDIT: http://www.gamestar.de/magazin/specials/ha...6071/index.html

here is the interview by Richard Huddy to which Edge refers to. Find me where he says the alpha kit is 2x less powerful than Final hardware

586225650[/snapback]

looks like somebody doesnt like ps3 being the superior console :)

Yes, the hype surrounding UE3 engine is 'ginormous' even at this point.

Um, no. The UT2007 Demo at Sony E3 conference was run on the 6800 SLI setup. Gears of War was running on dual G5s with a single X800.

586225997[/snapback]

No, you're wrong. Gears of War was running on a PC with SLI Geforce 6800s. CliffyB even said so in an interview.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Louis Rossmann suing Samsung over "990 Pro SSD warranty scam" by Sayan Sen Back in 2023, if you recall, Neowin reviewer Robbie Khan had a dispute with Samsung over his 990 Pro SSD, which was rapidly losing its health. After significant back and forth, the tech giant had finally released firmware to "stop" the issue. Interestingly, its previous flagship at the time, the 980 Pro was also facing problems leading to two consecutive sets of firmware fixes. Three years later, it looks like a similar conflict has now broken out between tech repair entrepreneur YouTuber Louis Rossmann and Samsung, as it has escalated into a threatened lawsuit after the company allegedly refused to appropriately replace a failing 990 Pro SSD that remained under warranty. According to Rossmann, a 4TB Samsung 990 Pro NVMe SSD purchased for approximately $330 less than two years ago, began experiencing major hiccups and issues, even though he claims it had been operated under ideal cooling conditions. It was installed in a RAID 1 array and cooled by a heatsink and dual high-speed fans. However the drive reportedly started dropping out of the array, exhibiting controller-level failures that eventually became not useable in any meaningful way. Rossmann said Samsung’s support process was marked by delays and confusion from the very start. After initially contacting the wrong regional support channel, he was redirected to Samsung’s memory support division where he submitted detailed diagnostics, logs, and proof of purchase. Rossmann runs a repair company and owns an ACE Lab PC-3000 machine, which is a professional-grade data recovery equipment. As such, he had been confident in his diagnostics. Samsung even seemingly acknowledged that later. Regardless, Rossmann claims that his initial support ticket was automatically closed before a full 24-hour response window had elapsed, forcing him to reopen the case and resubmit documentation. The controversy however intensified further from here after Samsung accepted the drive for warranty evaluation but later returned it with a repair report stating that the drive had passed its testing and that the SSD had been verified as functional. Rossmann strongly disputed those claims citing that his own independent testing on PC-3000 showed write speeds reducing to as low as 40–60 MB/s before the drive failed entirely. Samsung subsequently informed him that the SSD had been reset and reflashed, passing internal stress tests. However, the company also stated that replacement units were unavailable due to an industry-wide memory shortage and suggested that a refund process could be initiated if further testing confirmed the fault. Thus, to settle, the company offered a refund of $330, the amount that was initially paid by him to make the purchase. Here, Rossmann pointed out the seeming hypocrisy of the tech giant as in how no Samsung drive was apparently allocated for warranty replacements, but they were abundantly available for retail sales especially when using business accounts. As you can see, Rossmann is indeed right, there are Samsung 990 Pro 4TB SSDs on Amazon currently for $950 (shipped and sold by first-party Amazon US itself), and they are also available on Samsung's own store too, albeit for an even higher price of $1100. Thus Rossmann argues that Samsung’s inability or unwillingness to provide a replacement while the same model remains available for purchase at significantly higher market prices reflects a failure to honor its warranty obligations. He has issued a formal 60-day notice and says he intends to file suit in Texas small claims court, asserting that companies should face greater costs for denying legitimate warranty claims than for fulfilling them. You can check out the full video titled "Samsung's 990 Pro SSD warranty policy is a scam; I'm taking them to court," at the link below. Source and image: Louis Rossmann (YouTube) As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases
    • Was it too much to ask to show the icon in this article?
    • Frankly, I blame whoever is writing such articles. "A big improvement/update and/or new feature is now available to everyone! Also, use this unofficial tweak tool to enable it because it actually isn't available to you yet officially and might not in fact even be entirely ready or whatever, hence why it is perhaps not enabled for you*. But it's great and you should enable it!" I mean there's nothing wrong with sharing info about some feature you might need to enable via unofficial means, of course. It's just that these articles tend to essentially end up being two news pieces in one, and one of them tends to be a bit misleading. (*Yes, yes, the "it's a controlled rollout!" thing. Not a fan of that one either. The argument, not the actual rollout.)
    • Thank you. Will do. I read in the release notes that editor config might be at play here.
    • Actually, I think even Microsoft doesn't know how to control it
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      davidbazooked earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Jamswaz earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Jamswaz earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Rookie
      Marzoid went up a rank
      Rookie
    • Community Regular
      coch went up a rank
      Community Regular
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      508
    2. 2
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      185
    3. 3
      +Edouard
      157
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      83
    5. 5
      ATLien_0
      75
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!