WGA vs AutoPatcher.

[MrMB]

I personally beleive that the whole WGA scheme is intended as an advantage for paying customers. i.e. If you pay then you can use the microsoft update site and download center. If you don't then you can still get the updates via autoupdate and therefore i would consider it fine to continue offering autopatcher. If microsoft don't like it you can be sure they'll be in contact.

[+Random Stranger Subscriber¹]

i voted 4, but 3 is fine imo. i use AP for offline installs to update the system completely, before i even connect to internet. unless MS says hotfix redist is illegal (which i doubt they will) you SHOULD keep going.

dont take AP from the people, we need it.

[Inertia]

I voted #4

Several reasons:

1)Critical updates do not use WGA, so we dont have to worry about them.

2) Microsoft does not protect the actual file son its server, it only protects the link to them, if you want a hotfix, google the filename and google wil lshow you aaway around the WGA check, this isnt illegal.

3) Microsoft will embed WGA checks into major none critical updates itself in the future, for example, Internet explorer 7 Beta 1 has one, so long as autopatcher doesnt remove the WGA check, and simply launches it on the PC, and allows it to error if ther eis a problem, this is not illegal.

Hope my input helps.

[Laptop]

You cant check with the WGA but... how about AP checks the product key based on an algorithm its the best you can do *voted 4*

[JRosenfeld]

4.

WGA installs an activeX component. Is that something you can interface/work with? As I understand it, once that is installed, all the internet connection does is to run the activeX on the PC and it reports back the result (pass/fail). If so, it should be possible in principle for it to be run off line and report to autopatcher?? (I'm not a programmer, so if this is rubbish, pleease ignore:-))

[y_not]

I myself voted on number 3. MS will most likely raise no objection, as long as it's being used for legal purposes.

I in fact use it as a Microsoft OEM system builder. We update all machines just like all the other OEM's do before shipping to the client, hence we need to be able to update /w out activating the OS as that's the customers responsibility.

AP-XP saves me the trouble of going around their MS-GAV function.

In fact MS has already posted workarounds for the system builders who are small like me and don't wish to spend all the time up front to download all the updates manually, prepare batch files, test them, and deploy it, as well as keep it updated all the time. This method described is very time consuming, when you?re low on free time as it is for such things.

Please don't ask me for the steps, it's not h***ing, simply bypassing. It doesn?t even involve file editing, or installing anything. You'll likely figure it out on your own eventually. ;-)

MS really put a kink in the works for we the OEM's that don't build 100's of computers per month using images. Thus making it very hard for the ones that sell their systems /w windows on them, and try to comply /w their "Keeping it Secure" mantra.

But do your ground work, and talk to MS as we wouldn't want to see you get in trouble. However usually when MS raises offense to something in regards to licensing, they do send a cease-and-desist notice prior to bringing down the hammer, and I understand they do work /w you on it.

So I vote for staying /w the existing plan, MS makes these updates available to user?s offline, and as long as you have at least 1 machine /w a genuine key, then I?d say there's no worries.

Making this a non offline update kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing. Also, I might add that making it simply a tweak program, and leaving it up to the user to implement security patches makes for a big pain as well. (However see option towards end of post)

Lastly, most of the users MS is targeting that have illegal copies aren't going to even know about this program, let alone have the smarts to use it. (Please no flaming; by this I simply am emphasizing the type of end user that blindly borrows their friend or relatives software to ?USE? it.) Most of these users that will fail the MS-GAV program have borrowed a copy from a friend, or used the copy from their Dell on their OLD upgraded box or something. Most of these users are just "End-USERS" that wound up managing to pirate XP here or there.

It's the geeks, nerds and tweaks MS has to worry about, the one's that'll always outsmart them, the one's that actually go download the pirated versions from somewhere on the internet, and those guys will always get around things and MS knows that they just won't publicly announce it.

So in that light, for MS to kill this project is absurd.

You can distribute it just like normal, with all the scripts and switches pre-programmed to install all of the current patches, but simply not include the patches, and let us download them from the windows catalog on a legal machine that can pass the MS-GAV program. All the folder structures and everything will be their, that way all we have to do is spend a few minutes dropping in the .exe's and burn the thing and were golden. MS can't sue you for re-dist. the packages illegally, and you stay totally in the green, while still providing the same functionality in the program you have allways provided. Just some minor work on our end, instead of a ton of work debuging each auto install of every single patch.

Sound good?!!!!

I think so!

Edited August 1, 2005 by y_not

[12Iceman]

Option 3. There is no need for you to waste time programming so you can follow all of microsofts whims, keep doing what you have always done.

[Radio Free Mars]

Sadly, i think MS has you by the ba||s on this one...?

Autopatcher is indeed a circumvention of WGA on updates.

586308603[/snapback]

Well then so is this site

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/index.html

100% legal last time I looked :pp

[dragon2611]

3

just dont include stuff like media player.etc concentrate on hotfixes only.

after all microsoft have already said themselves that WGA isnt going to stop pirated windows downloading secuirty updates doing that would be stupid cus all the pirated machines would get turned into a zombie army.

[Lexcyn]

I thought they offer the KB's on Technet to download without WGA? Or am I mistaken?

I voted for #4, but I was leaning towards #3. I would hate for anything bad to you guys so I voted #4. :p

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

There's a greater number of people who voted for #4 and posted than the number of people who voted #3 and posted... yet #3 has more votes.

Don't just let the posts guide you, use the poll results too :)

[DaFlapDrol]

Have choosen for the option "Continue as usual and pay no attention to Microsoft."

Does Microsoft pay any attention to the customers with WGA?

Does AutoPatcher something called "illegal" ?

Users with one or more cracked Windows versions, using AutoPatcher to get the updates and more. Those are "illegal" users and should be bannend.

Can anyone blame AutoPatcher for that?

Imagine that you have a dial-up connection and you bypassed the WGA. But need to download all patches and hotfixes (sp2 takes 36 hours on a 56K6 speed connection) and then you need all the others too.......pfffffffffff

I think, that's my personal opinion, that AutoPatcher must go on like it is....If we are really wrong and doing illegal things. Microsoft will take actions.....not in the bad way, I'm sure.

The intention and meaning of this program is good, Microsoft does know that. Just wait what Mircosoft will say..........untill then....keep and going.

[42n81]

I take it you haven't yet received the "cease and desist" letter.

In which case continue as before, and consider out of courtesy asking MS how you can continue, (as is your right), without infringing any rights they will undoubtedy claim.

Any third party software producer such as yourselves is surely doing MS a big favour by working for them to support and extend their platform and help entrench users. As creative producers you must have rights too, won't the corporation work with you to help you enhance their product?

Surely you wouldn't mind incorporating the WGA in your product if that's what the overlord decrees?

[Gowcra]

option 1 for me cheers mate

[Skunkwerkz]

Hello all I m still around My 2 cents:

answer my be in WUS I will update if so.

This how I got my updates b/4 autopatcher. This caps are

just made to verify it works so as of now admin packages

are freely available.

[Skunkwerkz]

after choosing admin you are redirected to diff win update site

[Angelico_Payne]

Content removed. - nw_raptor

No Warez (links) & Cracks.

Help, requests or posts that discuss circumvention. This includes linking to illegally obtained software, movies & music files - posting about it, and suggesting to get it.

In certain way it would be prudent to insert check in AP, but for what purpose i ask you?

As I work as system builder, I understand the possible criminal implications, and hope you won't end up as that guy that made DVD Decrypter... however, on the other side there are NO gain, maybe a tap on the shoulder by Microsoft?.... nah, they dont give a damn about a few thousand people using standalone patcher....

For most of us it would be a silly inconveniance for what we would hold grudge on people making AP...

Since there are at least 6 ways to temporarilly or permanently baypass this measure, it would be just a time waster, which AP has never been - on the contrary it was a huge time saver = money saver.

A sincerely hope that you will not comply with Microsoft, but with the people.

Edited August 2, 2005 by nw_raptor

[paratrupr]

Coincidentally, I'm attending a Microsoft Partner Live Meeting right now regarding WGA. I could simply ask Microsoft what they intend to do, but I'd hate to let the cat out of the bag. Although, they are well aware of what AP is right?

Raptor?

[Gowcra]

I am sure they are mate.

[timeruner]

I am a user of AutoPatcher and I would hate to see the program come to a end because of the AutoPatcher team not complying with Microsoft. So my Suggestion is to go with option number 4, Microsoft has already stated that legal and not so legal users will still be able to get security updates. Just don't include things like Windows media player and so on, in AutoPatcher. So that way you will still be able to continue the work on Auto Patcher providing the most needy patches and will not be breaking any of the genuine advantage checks. just my two cents worth.

[akaladis Veteran]

Coincidentally, I'm attending a Microsoft Partner Live Meeting right now regarding WGA.  I could simply ask Microsoft what they intend to do, but I'd hate to let the cat out of the bag.  Although, they are well aware of what AP is right?

Raptor?

586314228[/snapback]

Let *us* take care of that ;)

[glitch409]

I put 3, wait untill microsoft says something and then comply, why do more work untill it's necessary.

[soldier1st]

i say continue as is but ignore adding that WGA garbage to ap as it would loose alot of ap dles,WGA can be bypassed so why bother with it?

[PsiMoon314]

Hi Guys,

Firstly, I have seen nothing in the press or anywhere else which says that redistribution of MS hotfixes or patches is illegal. That would be subject to local laws and the jurisduction you are in.

It may be against the terms and conditions of the licence / EULA for XP or somewhere on MS's Web site or other publications, but if it is I have not seen it. Even if it is it might be difficult or impossible for MS to enforce.

Does anyone have specific pointers to any such documentation / terms / EULA ?

If not then I would carry on as you are and do nothing to change AP for the moment. Many other projects and websites would be doing the same thing and all are in the same boat.

If they complain to you about APXP "bypassing" WGA point them at the well publicised online "hacks" which bypass it anyway. In addition show them the PID generator for XP Pro Volume Licence versions and ask them to get their own house in order before seeking to blame others for their own product activation / update loopholes.

Anyone who want's to will have a WGA / Activation free XP OS in a matter of minutes; APXP does nothing to help in that process.

Remember it's not your job or responsibility to enforce someone elses licence terms or conditions. If MS can't prevent unlicenced copies of XP entering the market it's not your job to fix this for them.

If you don't like these arguements then do any or all of the following:

. Add the WGA install files into APXP and setting them as a default install.

. You might like to add a check for pirated PID's but this would be difficult and would need testing before going live. This would not be the same as WGA but might at least show MS you are "willing" to co-operate with them.

. In addition you could block unactivated copies of XP Home from using APXP. It's then up to MS to ensure that XP Home installs are valid.

. Add a disclaimer or update your EULA to state that APXP should not be used on unlicenced XP installs.

Kind Regards

Simon

[Skunkwerkz]

Update.... I met with my group and told them of the concern by the AP Team.

An attorney said that the product likley should catagorized as a administration tool

and as long they continue to document and provide method for Network admins

to distribute the updates all should be OK since this only applies to "Windows Update v.6"

Further they stated that the critical updates are more like automobile recalls,

or like IBM ECA's or Engineering Change Annoncement.

I have personally seen IBM provide ECA for pc's as long as 4 years after

warranty expired.

Lastly should the decision be made to stop development..... I will manually

update the last version until no longer practical, " Sure be Nice If It Were the ver 6 though Hint Hint" then if needed I feel sure I can adapt "Windows Post Installer/WPI" to work as well.

Raptor,

I would not sweat it they jump on Name issuses EX:Lindows

Bottom Line You are saving MS Bandwidth, and they have not

stated You Must update Our Products only this way.

Its a Win win for both parties.

PS. Legal copies Both OEM and some Select fail WGA.

Keep up the good work "Greek Dude"

Skunk

[email protected]