WGA vs AutoPatcher.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

Seems like all is well, then :D

[Premgenius]

Drop AutoPatcher all-together. - NO!

Drop Microsoft patches and continue as an add-on/tweak program. - NO

Continue as usual and pay no attention to Microsoft. - Possible, not soon before it comes a legal issue

Continue as usual, but do our best to comply with WGA - Yes, Talk to Microsoft, your not competition so they would sort something out

[akaladis Veteran]

Hi Guys,

Firstly, I have seen nothing in the press or anywhere else which says that redistribution of MS hotfixes or patches is illegal. That would be subject to local laws and the jurisduction you are in.

It may be against the terms and conditions of the licence / EULA for XP or somewhere on MS's Web site or other publications, but if it is I have not seen it. Even if it is it might be difficult or impossible for MS to enforce.

Does anyone have specific pointers to any such documentation / terms / EULA ?

If not then I would carry on as you are and do nothing to change AP for the moment. Many other projects and websites would be doing the same thing and all are in the same boat.

If they complain to you about APXP "bypassing" WGA point them at the well publicised online "hacks" which bypass it anyway. In addition show them the PID generator for XP Pro Volume Licence versions and ask them to get their own house in order before seeking to blame others for their own product activation / update loopholes.

Anyone who want's to will have a WGA / Activation free XP OS in a matter of minutes; APXP does nothing to help in that process.

Remember it's not your job or responsibility to enforce someone elses licence terms or conditions. If MS can't prevent unlicenced copies of XP entering the market it's not your job to fix this for them.

If you don't like these arguements then do any or all of the following:

. Add the WGA install files into APXP and setting them as a default install.

. You might like to add a check for pirated PID's but this would be difficult and would need testing before going live.  This would not be the same as WGA but might at least show MS you are "willing" to co-operate with them.

. In addition you could block unactivated copies of XP Home from using APXP. It's then up to MS to ensure that XP Home installs are valid.

. Add a disclaimer or update your EULA to state that APXP should not be used on unlicenced XP installs.

Kind Regards

Simon

586318635[/snapback]

Update.... I met with my group and told them of the concern by the AP Team.

An attorney said that the product likley should catagorized as a administration tool

and as long they continue to document and provide method for Network admins

to distribute the updates all should be OK since this only applies to "Windows Update v.6"

Further they stated that the critical updates are more like automobile recalls,

or like IBM ECA's or Engineering Change Annoncement. 

I have personally seen IBM provide ECA for pc's as long as 4 years after

warranty expired. 

Lastly should the decision be made to stop development..... I will manually

update the last version until no longer practical, " Sure be Nice If It Were the ver 6 though Hint Hint"  then if needed I feel sure I can adapt "Windows Post Installer/WPI" to work as well.

Raptor,

    I would not sweat it they jump on Name issuses EX:Lindows

Bottom Line You are saving MS Bandwidth, and they have not

stated You Must update Our Products only this way.

Its a Win win for both parties.

PS. Legal copies Both OEM and some Select fail WGA.

Keep up the good work "Greek Dude"

Skunk

[email protected]

586318929[/snapback]

Thanks for the info & suggestions :)

[Gibwar]

I voted #4 as I have seen some patch installers have WGA built in, not just on the update sites anymore. I don't think it is illegal to release those if they are unedited, but if you try to remove the WGA you'll get in trouble.

[protoss_chaos]

Well then so is this site

http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/index.html

100% legal last time I looked  :p

586309484[/snapback]

Then look again. They offer software that u need WGA to get right from their site with no WGA... not legal... Just because its on th enet doesn't make it legal...

I would link to another example, but knowing the mods, i would be warned for warez or something dumb like that... Thats ok, you keep linking warez tho, no one will say anything to you.

[BiggusDickus]

I want to know exactly what info their WGA uses from my computer...

And what PID?s (not 640 any more...)... that will work!

/ BiggusDickus :devil::

[akaladis Veteran]

Then look again.  They offer software that u need WGA to get right from their site with no WGA... not legal...  Just because its on th enet doesn't make it legal...

I would link to another example, but knowing the mods, i would be warned for warez or something dumb like that... Thats ok, you keep linking warez tho, no one will say anything to you.

586324684[/snapback]

Didn't see that one coming! Do you have something against us or something?

[Colin-uk Veteran]

Then look again.  They offer software that u need WGA to get right from their site with no WGA... not legal...  Just because its on th enet doesn't make it legal...

I would link to another example, but knowing the mods, i would be warned for warez or something dumb like that... Thats ok, you keep linking warez tho, no one will say anything to you.

586324684[/snapback]

its not illegal to download updates without going through WGA

[iTekweni]

#3 for me as I bought a legal copy of Win XP pro OEM last year it came with a certificate of authenticity and it installed and registered no problems but last week I did an fresh reinstall and could still get updates. As of monday this week all of a sudden I am told by the update site the my key is not a valid key.

A phone call to microsoft ended with the chap on the phone telling me that the product key that I have is registered to another organization and recommends I uninstall the OS and go out and ourchase another key. Do they think I have the resources that Bill Gated has that at there wim I would run out and spend hundreds on another cd there are off their heads.

Microsoft did not want to listen to my problem they just want to rob people.

[MazX_Napalm]

I voted #3 because I believe that it is not contributing to piracy. I also go with what a few people have said about waiting until MS complains. I doubt they will, and even if they did, they are more likely to warn than "send the fed is".

As far as WGA goes, I have 3 pc's at work that I reloaded at work. These are Dell pc's and I used the official CD. They were blocked by WGA. I had a quick shifty in teh winnt.sif files, all the keys were the same (as they are). I took a cd from another group (there were about 6). They all had generic cd keys, all the same but different from the first lot I tried. I used one of them and WGA wasn't an issue. What I am worried about is that the keys I have used may make there way onto the "banned" list. Then we start again.

Solution (if any MS people are reading this): Years and years ago, programs like AutoCAD, required a dongal to be plugged into the printer port for the application to work. Why not just include a similar item with the CD/DVD? It would cut piracy to virtually zero. Bummer for laptop users though.

[Angel Blue01]

I voted #3.

Go with #4. There are many programs that patch your unattended CD so its not illegal to distribute Microsoft patches.

[James33]

I voted #3

Anyway there are many legal XP user who are affected by WGA as well .

looks like they did not do there homework before making WGA active .

[MazX_Napalm]

Well it looks like there won't be a problem with WGA in the next server version. I have heard that MS will delpoy server remotely.

MS: Good morning.

Customer: Hi I would like Windows 2016 SP52 please

MS: Will that be cash or credit card?

Cutomer: Credit Card

MS: And to which ip address would you like that installed to?

[wdb1966]

If AP becomes taboo, might be time to fdisk and install Linux...M$ deserves a little more of that. ;)

Edited August 9, 2005 by wdb1966

[DarkCircuit]

If AP becomes taboo, might be time to fdisk and install Linux...M$ desrves a little more of that. ;)

586349238[/snapback]

You KNOW I voted for 3. :p

[JRosenfeld]

I don't think MS will be bothering you in the near future. They are 'going back toi the drawing board'

http://www.techspot.com/news/18281-Microso...-Advantage.html

linking to

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25245

[ajschwab2004]

Here's a hack secret to bypass WGA

link removed...

I've try it and it works.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

^ Might want to edit your post to remove that link, many links have already been forcibly removed citing this rule:

# No Warez (links) & Cracks.

Help, requests or posts that discuss circumvention. This includes linking to illegally obtained software, movies & music files - posting about it, and suggesting to get it.

[Tokar]

^ Might want to edit your post to remove that link, many links have already been forcibly removed citing this rule:

586353655[/snapback]

that java hack has been posted many times on this forum.

Option 3:

Dont ask dont tell.

If Microsoft has not contacted you about AutoPatcher being a problem then dont ask about it. Just continue doing what you have been doing and only when Microsoft contacts you with a problem should you discontinue or modify your course.

[mossman]

Hi,

I voted #3 - and as above, IF Microsoft send a legal letter, apologise and try to work with them and WGA

[PsiMoon314]

Hi All,

Interesting article here entitled Microsoft back to drawing board on piracy

If this article is accurate, then it would seem that MS acknowledge that WGA is not an anti-piracy measure but simply a marketing tool to educate users on piracy issues.

With this in mind I would take it that anyone publishing hotfixes or allowing non-WGA checked users to install them would not get into any trouble.

The telling quote, (if accurate) is:

A Microsoft spokesman said it was important to note that the issue was not a security vulnerability and customers were not at risk.

He said WGA was not designed to catch counterfeiters or prevent hacks. "Its intent is to help innocent customers realise the full value of authentic Windows software while protecting investments made by our partners."

On this basis I do not see any reason why the August release of APXP should be delayed simply due to WGA.

BTW There are reports of of issues with 896727. This hotfix may not install as it reported to have an invalid security certificate.

Kind Regards

Simon

[akaladis Veteran]

Yeah, I am aware of that piece of info. However, let's make sure it's accurate.

[JRosenfeld]

PSImoon 314 wrote

Hi All,

Interesting article here entitled Microsoft back to drawing board on piracy

That's why I posted it about 4 posts above yours :-)

[JiveMasterT]

i was going to suggest that you put a patch into autopatcher to disable the wga, but that seems kinda outta the question :lol:

listen, AP is a very vaulable administrator tool in my opinion... whenever i build a new machine or reformat i always get the newest version of AP and install it, first thing. I usually dont include a lot of the extras, but the updates are key. if MS takes you guys out, i could seriously see this going underground through less than public distrobution. good luck with it. i say keep doing what you're doing. if MS wants you to include some WGA code in your app, then ask them to send you the code and you can include it in your installer.

[SyntaxError]

I voted #3. There's only one thing Microsoft can do to keep pirate copies of their OS's from being updated and that's to add a validation feature to each individual hotfix installer. In which case, several hackers out there would quickly break that protection and make the cracked hotfixes available on the warez scene. No laws will prevent that.

I happen to own 2 OEM copies of XP Home that I bought online for myself and my parents. However we no longer use them for various reasons, WGA and WPA being 2 of them. I have recently installed XP Pro Corp on both machines, because WGA would not let us update our legal OS's and MS tech support wants to document every little thing about us, "in order to remedy the problem" they say.

It's easy enough to fully update any illegal Windows OS since the updates are all available all over the net if you just look for them, or you could set up a dual-boot system with a legit OS, using it only for downloading hotfixes directly from MS, then manually applying them to another OS.

In short, MS can't stop anyone from doing what they want. I don't normally condone piracy, but I've had nothing but trouble with XP Home from day 1. I've even had a BSOD during installation of windows. So I feel MS owes us all. Using XP Pro Corp has made things so much easier.