Linux lacks in hardware support

[mr_demilord]

Exactly, with linux you have to RTFM.

But the most windows users are used to the (wizards) (hit the <next> button) to install a driver, that they give up and blame linux that it doesn support their hardware instead to blame theirself.

But the plus point of Linux is that you don need to format every 6 months.

If everything works with linux it works, and does its job very good and stable.

So it is a 1 time thing to install drivers.

With windows you have to reformat because windows is getting sluggish because of the registry.

Edited August 23, 2005 by mr_demilord

[seethru]

  dueY said:

I didn't need a floppy to install Windows.  I don't even have a floppy drive. 

And the nv drivers didn't work for my 6800, that was one of the first things I tried.

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"nv" worked fine on my 6800GT...which I quickly replaced with Nvidia 7667 drivers, with very little work.

[Lexxan]

the majority of time it's not plug and play requiring editing of long config files(not to mention you probably have to hunt down examples and docs on the net because man pages are just annoying OR there's just no docs period), then you have to find an app that can even support the device once it's recognized. Then you load the app to find you have to configure it for an hour too.

You linux lovers need to realize most people don't have the time of day to be messing around with this stuff.. I've used slack debian & freebsd for years.. and for servers only. Why? because I want to plug my webcam in, double click MSN and video chat within 1 minute. I have better things to do with my time than mess around for hours..

my 2 cents.

edit..

Maybe linux will actually pick up in 40 years when all the old people who didn't grow up with computers phase out. You're forgetting 90% of the population aren't nerds.. and they know how to open internet explorer and outlook express.

[CaKeY]

For most Linux users any time lost during initial configuration is more than made up for in ease of upkeep/maintainance/not-having-to-reinstall-for-goofy-little-reasons-every-six-months.

[Lexxan]

I've had to reinstall linux countless times with huge configurations like gnome and kde. Just as bad IMO.

Gave up on linux for a desktop long ago. We'll see in 20 years.. I may be using it.

I'm also a little confused by that comment as well.. I defrag once a month if that. THat's a lot less upkeep than a linux machine.

My reinstall takes less than one hour.. and it's unattended. Much easier and less headaches.

[CaKeY]

so you dont mind running outdated software and drivers?

[kiall]

linux is great it finds and works with anything u hit it with

[Lexxan]

Outdated.. Maybe if you have an old crappy machine. All my equipment is new and comes with proper drivers. The best part is I just plug it in.. and if need be use the cdrom.

I'd also much rather have a driver written by the manufacturer with people being paid and knowing what they're doing instead of some kid in his basement writing it off hardware specs (IF they're even released) from the manufacturer. Not to mention the annoyance of that person updating it every week because of his crappy code. Also quite a pain that you have to search the web for it and read a howto on using it.

[CaKeY]

lol

[megamanXplosion]

I have not found a single linux distribution that supported all of the hardware in this computer. This has been my experience with Linux...

Fedora Core 4 - No support for keyboard or mouse.

Suse 9.3 - No support for keyboard or mouse.

Ubuntu 4.10 - Supports mouse, but no support for keyboard (I ordered 5.10 but never received it.)

Mandriva Linux 2005 - Supports mouse, but no support for keyboard.

Ark Linux 2005.1 SR1 - Supports mouse and keyboard, doesn't support modem and has crappy support for video card.

Keyboard: ViewSonic KU-202 Standard Office Keyboard.

Mouse: Standard 2-button + mouse wheel Logitech USB mouse. Nothing fancy.

Video Card: nVidia GeForce 2 MX/MX400.

Modem: Broadxent v.92 PCI Fax Modem.

I would have to echo the sentiments made in the first post. Hardware support in Linux sucks.

[MulletRobZ]

LOL! Smoke, what are ya smokin?

With the more recent distros, I never had a problem with the hardware whatsoever. If I did, it would be trying to get the scanner to work before Mandrake 9.0 and getting the NVidia video card to use the proper drivers in any version of Mandrake (although I got it to work in MDK 9.0 with an older version of the drivers with some extra configuration). I didn't have any luck getting my webcam (Logitech QuickCam Pro) to work either, but I lost it about three years and chances are it probably works by now.

Wireless networking can be a b**** to get working, but I was able to get an RTL8180-based one to work fine, but not through automatic detection.

[xSaithx]

I think what the original poster (and many of the subsequent posters) meant to say was Linux is not ready for their desktops.

Because ultimately hardware support is a matter of the hardware, the distribution and the willingness of the user to learn about his own system.

For example, I installed Slackware 10.1 on my old HP Pavillion 772n. I had to immediately upgrade the kernel so that I could install the NVidia drivers (they wouldn't install on the kernel that installed with the OS) and now I still have to reinstall my xfree86 files so that I can use a GUI environment (not that command line and lynx aren't fun, they just aren't as easy to navigate as a GUI browser.)

Then again, I installed Xandros Desktop OS Deluxe 3.0 on the same system, ON TOP OF AN ALREADY INSTALLED AND CONFIGURED WINDOWS XP INSTALL, and not only was it easier to install than Windows, it had BETTER SUPPORT. The sound drivers worked better (on Windows my cheap speakers sounded grainy and had crackling fits every now and then.) The hard drive was automatically re-partitioned without losing any data and without me having to even having to partition it myself (unlike Windows.) In fact, the whole install was easier and faster than installing most Windows software, let alone Windows XP itself.

Likewise on this system, I had to install network card drivers from the CD for my Asus P5P800 motherboard, as well as soundcard drivers. On top of that I have generic Microsoft ATI drivers for my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, whereas Xandros automatically detected all of my hardware, including the USB flash drive I just plugged in, and installed the correct drivers for it.

The point of all this is to say that if you like the way things work in Windows, you should probably use Windows. No one is forcing you to switch to or even consider Linux as an alternative, very much unlike the offensive proprietary ******izations of code released by Microsoft. They try to make it as hard as possible for anyone to use any alternative, as you seem to have found out.

Bottom line, if you don't like the hardware support in Linux, either get hardware that is going to work with it or stick with Windows. People have more important things to do than piddle away hours writing code so that thankless people like you can whine about how everything doesn't install itself.

[CaKeY]

Amen!

[ScottKin]

  LaNcom said:

Smoke,

what TV tuners don't work? AiW's are supported, check GATOS[1]. Gyration stuff should work out of the box[2], if it doesn't, you'll only need to configure the hardware properly. Biometry support is available[3], but not for all devices (granted - blame the vendors). WinModems are a POS, any Hayes AT modem is cheaper, works better, they are all supported, and they are more efficient. Anyway, most WinModems do work[4], even though the driver may be commercial closed source software (LinuxAnt)[5]. And USB WiFi just works on most recent distros, may need LinuxAnt drivers[6] or NDISWrapper[7], but that's the users fault for not buying properly supported hardware in the first place. Still, they work, so who cares...

[1]: http://gatos.sourceforge.net/supported_cards.php

[2]: Quote from http://www.gyration.com/intl/uk/testimonials_uk.htm :"Fantastic product hope you sell millions, you have my vote, and for you Linux users this is the best key board I have ever used even better than the little Linux keyer."

[3]: http://linuxbiometrics.com/

[4]: http://linmodems.org/

[5]: http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/

[6]: http://www.linuxant.com/driverloader/

[7]: http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/

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[1] A joke: "Should be" ? Guaranteed to work in Windows. Next? :D

[2] Based on user posts in this thread, the device does NOT work - regardless of a singular rant from a Linux user; what is not told is how long it took him to get it working properly. :rolleyes:

[3] Another Joke - this is a site devoted to hacker-people who are in the progress of developing things like BioAPI, which appears to only work for Debian systems - so much for GenToo, Fedora or good ole RedHat. :whistle:

[4] Humorously, this site intones that:

"...A lot of people claim that a Winmodem has no place in a Linux box. I disagree. There are many applications for a Winmodem if you stop thinking of it as a modem, and start thinking of it as a telephone interface..."

It then goes on to list what a Winmodem might be good for on a Linux box, like:

"- Think telephone emulation (put the audio card into full duplex, and talk to the linmodem with it).

- Think telephone with a backspace key (use the linmodem to dial for you).

- Think smart telephone: "That line is busy. Do you want me to retry in five minutes?"

- Think "voice dialling"."

:pinch:

The lion's share of drivers listed later on in the site appear to be drivers created by individuals and not the hardware manufacturers - if hardware manufacturers don't have enough faith in the future of an OS, why should they support it?

[5] and [6] - repeat most of the info for [4], with the exception that Conexant is actually working with these people - but then again, we see their NDIS "wrapper" - nothing like doubling your load by running what is, for all intents and purposes, an interpreter for a driver. I can see this scenario clearly:

"Well, I got that NDIS wrapper working - but I'm only seeing 128k bits per second on my 10/100 NIC...BUT IT WORKS!!" :huh:

So much for the "Linux Hardware Support is awesome" myth - it's only awesome if all you want to do is spend hour upon hour upon hour of trying to get things to work instead of running Windows and having the same hardware work (with the exception of hardware failures) THE FIRST TIME! :woot:

--ScottKin

[ScottKin]

  xSaithx said:

I think what the original poster (and many of the subsequent posters) meant to say was Linux is not ready for their desktops.

Because ultimately hardware support is a matter of the hardware, the distribution and the willingness of the user to learn about his own system.

<snip of otherwise intelligent analysis>

The point of all this is to say that if you like the way things work in Windows, you should probably use Windows.  No one is forcing you to switch to or even consider Linux as an alternative, very much unlike the offensive proprietary ******izations of code released by Microsoft.  They try to make it as hard as possible for anyone to use any alternative, as you seem to have found out.

Bottom line, if you don't like the hardware support in Linux, either get hardware that is going to work with it or stick with Windows.  People have more important things to do than piddle away hours writing code so that thankless people like you can whine about how everything doesn't install itself.

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It always makes me laugh when people post what is, for the most part, an intelligent and reasonable analysis, and then totally shoot themselves in the leg - let alone the foot - with being snotty and self-absorbed and self-important.

THIS above all is why Linux will die on it's own petard.

--ScottKin

[Deanobear]

  ScottKin said:

So much for the "Linux Hardware Support is awesome" myth - it's only awesome if all you want to do is spend hour upon hour upon hour of trying to get things to work instead of running Windows and having the same hardware work (with the exception of hardware failures) THE FIRST TIME! :woot:

--ScottKin

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hmmm how wrong you are....

XP - I need to install drivers for my sound card, video card, scanner, printer... not to mention the required service packs needed to run in a secure environment.

Linux - the lot works straight out of the box... and I can surf the net safely.... even my antivirus... f-prot... is free for linux users :D

I do use a commercial distro... Mandriva, that was the best $70 i ever spent, gives me all the software I would ever need. Windows... hmmm $200 or so, then another $100 for Nero, another $70 for a dvd player, another $100 or so for antivirus/security... the list goes on and on.

Try it... you might even like it :woot:

[karma_police]

mmm... almost the same for me, in windows XP I have to download the drivers for: audio, video, wireless lan, wired lan and intel chipset. BTW restart each time I install each driver. Then install mail client, firefox, c++ compiler, java compiler, java ide,++ ide, etc.

And linux nothing, everything works out of the box, even those apps.

I have a dual boot, why?? because of games mostly and some other apps.

[seethru]

  ScottKin said:

The lion's share of drivers listed later on in the site appear to be drivers created by individuals and not the hardware manufacturers - if hardware manufacturers don't have enough faith in the future of an OS, why should they support it?

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First of all, the hardware vendors did not make linux drivers possibly because it's a WINmodem, but thats just a guess. With that said, if hardware manufacturers have no faith in the future of Linux, please explain to me why ATI went out and expanded their Linux development team. It isn't a lack of faith, it's what they perceive to be a lack of consumers to use their product. A vast majority of this worlds population uses some version of Windows, so hardware vendors pour all their software development cash into perfecting their Windows support.

  karma_police said:

mmm... almost the same for me, in windows XP I have to download the drivers for: audio, video, wireless lan, wired lan and intel chipset. BTW restart each time I install each driver. Then install mail client, firefox, c++ compiler, java compiler, java ide,++ ide, etc.

And linux nothing, everything works out of the box, even those apps.

I have a dual boot, why?? because of games mostly and some other apps.

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I don't even boot to windows to game anymore, WoW is running as well, if not better, on linux than it did in Windows.

[xSaithx]

  ScottKin said:

It always makes me laugh when people post what is, for the most part, an intelligent and reasonable analysis, and then totally shoot themselves in the leg - let alone the foot - with being snotty and self-absorbed and self-important.

THIS above all is why Linux will die on it's own petard.

--ScottKin

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Hmm, snotty, self-absorbed and self-important?

You mean like demanding that a user community take time out of their own lives, from their own free time, to develop hardware support for thankless slobs who will still complain and switch back to Windows at the first sign of trouble?

On the contrary, I think it's people like that who will eventually cause Windows to die in its own incompetency.

[Miuku.]

  ScottKin said:

THIS above all is why Linux will die on it's own petard.

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If by this you mean keeps constantly having a larger number of users, higher corporate acceptance, yes you're quite right.

But don't worry, you don't have to think about any of that if Apple plays their cards correctly as they'll raze Windows with their vastly superior OSX soon.. very soon.

[mr_demilord]

  Lexxan said:

I've had to reinstall linux countless times with huge configurations like gnome and kde. Just as bad IMO.

Gave up on linux for a desktop long ago. We'll see in 20 years.. I may be using it.

I'm also a little confused by that comment as well.. I defrag once a month if that. THat's a lot less upkeep than a linux machine.

My reinstall takes less than one hour.. and it's unattended. Much easier and less headaches.

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Hahahahahhaha you made me laugh with your comment, you don't need to reinstall linux, thats a windows habbit :D

[megamanXplosion]

  Quote

First of all, the hardware vendors did not make linux drivers possibly because it's a WINmodem, but thats just a guess. With that said, if hardware manufacturers have no faith in the future of Linux, please explain to me why ATI went out and expanded their Linux development team. It isn't a lack of faith, it's what they perceive to be a lack of consumers to use their product. A vast majority of this worlds population uses some version of Windows, so hardware vendors pour all their software development cash into perfecting their Windows support.

It's actually just a regular modem except some of it is controlled with software rather than purely hardware. They are only called "Winmodems" because Windows supports them and Linux does not (for the most part.) There is nothing preventing Linux from supporting them, except development constraints.

  Quote

You mean like demanding that a user community take time out of their own lives, from their own free time, to develop hardware support for thankless slobs who will still complain and switch back to Windows at the first sign of trouble?

On the contrary, I think it's people like that who will eventually cause Windows to die in its own incompetency.

I must thank you for predicting that everyone who has, or will have, hardware problems in Linux are "thankless slobs." What would we do without enlightening people, like yourself?

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I must admit, I will defend Linux till i'm blue in the face on this subject.. but hardware support is what just peeves me off with Linux and one of the reasons why i've just given up trying to get it working to my satisfaction and bought a Powermac as my 'non-Windows' machine.

Thing is, its not the fault of the Linux developers.. its the hardware vendors who WON'T open up the information on their hardware and will only release Windows (or very very VERY shaky, single distro supported) drivers. Yes, Linux driver support is inferior when they've had to reverse engineer the info, but thats down to the bloody hardware manufacturers! Its not a reflection on Linux whatsoever.

With native driver support, Linux hardware runs as well as (if not better in some cases) than the same product under Windows.

[LaNcom]

ScottKin,

what is it you want to tell us? You have no clue, and that's OK, but please don't try to sound informed then. First of all, I said I KNOW that all Gyration stuff works, usually OOTB without any tweaking. If it didn't work for someone - hey, tough luck. **** happens, you know - just check the Windows support forums (Bluetooth doesn't work as advertised, a very common problem - no problem on Linux). My fathers NForce2-based board has problems with several USB2 devices on Windows (with every Windows version I tried, and several different drivers), but works perfectly on Linux OOTB. So what? Maybe I'm simply too stupid to make it work, because it's _supposed_ to work... Same game, don't you agree? :-)

Then, you have to understand that drivers work completely different on Linux. Nobody cares for vendor-supplied drivers. Take Bluetooth for example: there are hundreds of Bluetooth dongles, from big companies as well as cheap whitebox stuff. Every device comes with different software, and that's the only reason a 3Com dongle is several times more expensive compared to some BlueLED dongle. But, if you open the dongles, you'll notice that there are only two or three common chipsets, and all those chipsets are supported on Linux. The Linux drivers for all Bluetooth chipsets were written by Qualcomm (one of the leading wireless companies, Fortune500 company) - it's a unified driver, which means that every dongle with the same chipset has exactly the same features and stability on Linux. This game goes on and on (all Creative soundcards based on the emu10k1 chip provide the same funtionality on Linux, and also the same funtionality as the E-MU APS, which is much more expensive - the Linux drivers for emu10k1 chips are based on Creative's very own sourcecode).

Let's see, my hardware and who provided the Linux drivers (keep in mind that other people, not affiliated with the original developers of the driver, may have improved it):

- AMD Opteron - drivers and support by AMD and SuSE Labs, on behalf of and with support from AMD

- AMD 8111/ 8151 chipset - drivers by AMD and SuSE Labs, on behalf of and with support from AMD

- Intel Pro/E 1000 NIC (aka 82541EI) - drivers by Intel

- Adaptec 19160 SCSI (aka AIC-7892B) - drivers by Adaptec

- Silicon Image SiL 3114 S-ATA - drivers by Red Hat Inc. and Jeff Garzik, with support from Silicon Image

- Creative Labs Audigy2 ZS - drivers by ALSA Project, based on the Creative Labs' Linux reference drivers

- Nvidia Quadro FX3000 G (aka NV35GL) - drivers by Nvidia

- BlueLED USB Bluetooth dongle - drivers by Qualcomm

- Wacom Intuos2 A4 USB tablet - drivers by Wacom

- Samsung ML-1510 USB printer - drivers by Samsung (unified driver/ SPL filter for ML-4500, ML-1xxx, ML-2xxx, ML-5080, ML-6040, Lexmark E210)

Devices not on the list (SUN Type6 USB keyboard, Iomega ZIP250 USB, Razer Diamondback mouse, USB/ USB2/ IEE1394 controllers, card reader, digicam) don't need special drivers to offer at least the same funtionality on Linux as on Windows (eg, the Diamondback has the same resolution on Linux, but the polling is faster).

Last, but not least, NDISWrapper or DriverLoader don't have any noticeable overhead, plus there's no NIC I've ever seen that doesn't have native Linux drivers...

[ahhell]

Here is my $.02.

Over the years i have tried numerous distros of linux (even going back as far as Caldera ver. 1 !).

Until recently i have always had numerous issues getting linux to run. I always got frustrated with hardware support. I stopped trying for a year or so to get it to run.

In the past few months, I have downloaded a few distros and gave linux another shot. Boy have things improved!!

I was able to get Ubuntu running on my older laptop first try. Everything was supported worked right out of the box!! I couldn't believe it. I've been experimenting with different apps and I must say I am totally impressed. Sure Linux can be frustrating sometimes but usually a quick Google search will turn up a solution.

I now have my laptop and an old P3-550 running Linux (the P3 is setup as a dhcp router/firewall).

All linux needs is a bit more tweaking and it will really give Windows a run for its money.