PreLuna theme

[Krome]

Ok... I think I am not going to defend anyone, but I want to say just a few word...

Remember, ideas are like running stream. No high mountains or laws of nature can or will hold it in one place, not even lakes. Restrictions or objections to ideas will end in such blast. :)

[Frogboy Administrators]

Being inspired is perfectly okay. What isn't okay is to use other people's material.

I'm certainly not going to call the cops or anything like that if you rip or if anyone rips because it's they're not my skin. What you think is okay or not okay is irrelevant, I am telling you what will happen based on 4 years of experience in skinning. There are a lot of people who consider this sort of thing stealing. I wish you could see some of the venomous email I've received because a given skin got ripped and got passed moderators. We deleted the skins once we knew but the 10+ email I received were nasty - enough that I wanted to just tell them to kiss my rear end. But I knew better by then. They have the moral highground (if not the diplomatic) and they would be all over us for months on our message boards, in our comments areas, etc. And it's hard to blame them, to people who spend weeks creating this stuff, they feel, well ripped.

Heck, last year on Skinz.org there was a huge flame war because a popular skin author, Mercury, used JUST the title bar of a Kaleidoscope theme.

It's important to remember that this stuff is someone's artwork. We're not talking "faceless corporations", we're talking about individuals who are on the net right along with you. It isn't okay to take their artwork and use it in yours without their permission. It doesn't matter if you've added extra stuff to it.

Look, you can either accept my polite advice or it'll be what has happened a thousand times in the past - several hundred ticked off users screaming bloody murder for your head. If you only knew the irony of someone calling ME a skin cop.

Bottom line: It is not right to take someone elses artwork and use it without their permission if you plan to distribute it anywhere but your private machine. Arguing with me about it is pointless because I'm not the one who's going to be all over you.

I'm pointing it out for one reason: I like Neowin and dont' want to see its message board turn into a flame war followed by a police state.

Sites like DeviantART and WinCustomize are huge and many of them are very militant about the protection of intellectual property. Many of them see people like me and Stardock as being "lax" on skinners rights (that's why it's so ironic that I'm being called a skin cop).

Once the Kaleidoscope people were on skinz.org, they were there to stay and not in a nice way. Skinz.org had to create various moderation features as a result to make it easier to kill posts and suspend accounts. This is the kind of hassle and nastiness that we, as Neowin users, should be trying to avoid.

And it's easy to avoid - just don't go around distributing other people's stuff without their permission.

[Frogboy Administrators]

Kaos, you joined on October 31 and all 5 posts you've made were flames on me ("a poor businessman") you called me in one.

I really honestly tried to see your point of view but then you just blew me off. You accused me (wrongly) of saying this guy was ripping (he hasn't yet, it's not distributed) while accusing me of spreading propaganda gave no reasonable examples.

Sorry but if you had been a member for say a cuople months or something that woudl be one thing, but I can't help but be skeptical of your intentions when you've only been a member for 1 day and every post you've made has been directed at me. My posts are long and boring sometimes but it's hard to believe some long time lurker would be so incensed to create an account and spend all his posting time attacking me.

So bye.

[neodescis]

Originally posted by Frogboy

Kaos, you joined on October 31 and all 5 posts you've made were flames on me ("a poor businessman") you called me in one.

I really honestly tried to see your point of view but then you just blew me off. You accused me (wrongly) of saying this guy was ripping (he hasn't yet, it's not distributed) while accusing me of spreading propaganda gave no reasonable examples.

Sorry but if you had been a member for say a cuople months or something that woudl be one thing, but I can't help but be skeptical of your intentions when you've only been a member for 1 day and every post you've made has been directed at me. My posts are long and boring sometimes but it's hard to believe some long time lurker would be so incensed to create an account and spend all his posting time attacking me.

So bye.

Well, if you look at it that way, then it's wrong to copy ANYTHING that ANYONE EVER uses. Where will this end? I am an advocate for free speech. If it is not illegal, then let them hound me. I don't really care that much. I know a LOT of people have been asking for this theme to be ported over to native XP format. I am giving the public what they want.

The bottom line is this - If I say that I was the first human being to say I shitted (or shat, whichever you prefer :)) in the toilet, then does that mean everyone else has to be constapated and explode? I think not. (Sorry for the childish analogy, but I thought it was amusing to a certain degree)

[Frogboy Administrators]

I'm not attempting to debate this as a philosophical thing. I'm merely pointing out what WILL happen in the real world. If you want to run a website that gets hounded, that's fine. But I'm not sure Neowin wants its site a warzone. And I don't know if it's illegal or not, if one of these people files a lawsuit (the Kaleidocope people nearly did for instance) I guess you'll find out.

I do personally think it's crummy for people to take someone else's actual graphics and use them in something they distribute without permission. It's wrong.

And btw, giving away something for free is always popular. But a lot of people don't believe it's cool to give someone else's stuff away for free.

I'm done though on this thread. Do what you will. You'll have tens of thousands of skin artists to debate with all you want. ;)

[neodescis]

Originally posted by Frogboy

I'm not attempting to debate this as a philosophical thing. I'm merely pointing out what WILL happen in the real world. If you want to run a website that gets hounded, that's fine. But I'm not sure Neowin wants its site a warzone. And I don't know if it's illegal or not, if one of these people files a lawsuit (the Kaleidocope people nearly did for instance) I guess you'll find out.

I do personally think it's crummy for people to take someone else's actual graphics and use them in something they distribute without permission. It's wrong.

And btw, giving away something for free is always popular. But a lot of people don't believe it's cool to give someone else's stuff away for free.

I'm done though on this thread. Do what you will. You'll have tens of thousands of skin artists to debate with all you want. ;)

If you're done, then I hope you at least read this - I wouldn't mind asking the skin author for permission if you think it wise. Could you perhaps provide me with contact information?

[KaosAD]

Frogboy...Kaos, you joined on October 31 and all 5 posts you've made were flames on me ("a poor businessman") you called me in one.

Correct, the first post was merely to let you know my view point, the second post was to explain it again.

Frogboy...I'm done though on this thread. Do what you will. You'll have tens of thousands of skin artists to debate with all you want.

Your post in this thread was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. If this had been your attitude from the start I would still only have two posts, once again you are the one that continued on.

For those curious as to my stance and for those who do not know, Brad aka Frogboy is the CEO and I ask once again, these are the actions of a CEO let a lone any one in a management position?

[jjcw]

first of all im not flaming anyone so dont get mad.Frogboy, this is the second thread i've heard you mention something about rips.If your going to post about rips then post about them in general.It seems your just limiting them to windowblind themes.I've seen countless number of aqua themes here and haven't heard you say anything about them.Didn't a very popular icon set on wincustomize decide to change the name of thier icons to avoid legal action from Macintosh??If you want to help the community then post about all rips instead of just windowblind rips.It gives people the impression that your here just advertising windowblinds.Also I've heard you make comments about newbies or "october registers".Well buddy,if you look just below your name, you'll see that you just registered 7 days ago so i dont think you need to mention anything about october registers anymore.But like I said, if you want to help the communtiy, then post comments on all the rips instead of just windowblind rips.

[Nutop]

stardock sux anyway

[KaosAD]

Frogboy...Kaos, you joined on October 31 and all 5 posts you've made were flames on me ("a poor businessman") you called me in one.

Come to think of it, what does my "join" date have to do with anything? Thank you for pointing that out jjcw, Frogboy you joined 10-24-2001, 98 total posts (11.41 posts per day) and you comment on my 5 posts in one day in one thread? I'm not a CEO and hardly have time to respond let alone 11 times in a day.

My posts are long and boring sometimes but it's hard to believe some long time lurker would be so incensed to create an account and spend all his posting time attacking me.

A CEO with 11 posts a day and you say I spend all my time attacking you? Where do I attack you? I point out the obvious, again any of these posts are not very becoming for a business man nor for the company he represents, guess that point just won't get across.

[EmuZombie Veteran]

this thread has gotten out of hand, if you guys wish to continue this flame war, please do so in private.