2006 Corvette Z06

[BigDaddy5]

You're forgetting something though.  L88 Corvettes do NOT "have much more HP than the newer ones..."  They have less.

Corvettes and most cars were rated as GROSS HP in 1967, 1968 and 1969 - the three years that the L88 Corvette was built.  Today's Corvette is rated SAE NET HP - not Gross.  SAE Net is a much more accurate rating than the Gross HP rating which is why all automobiles are now rated as Net and not Gross.  Therefore, the SAE NET HP of the L88 Corvette would be less than it's published GROSS HP.

The 2006 Z06 Corvette is running at 505 SAE NET HP.  GM is stating that the Z06 is the fastest Corvette ever built.  They are 100% accurate in that statement.  It's also the most powerful Corvette to ever come off the Corvette production line.

The only year a Corvette was not built was 1983.

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I think you missed our whole debate. It was not about the L88 verses the '06 Z06, it was about Vettes in general, I said they were designed as a luxary automobile and then evolved into a power ride. He mentioned the L88 because it was an early corvette that broke the mold about luxary, and went with more power. However, as you'll see we agreed on, it wasn't a trend, but more of a unique model.

The point was that the L88 had a lot more power then most Vettes until those of recent. Newer ones, in our debate, referred to those before the century mark, mostly.

Nobody said anything about the Z06 not being the fastest or most powerful off the assembly line, quote me where someone said that.

And FYI, I already gave the year where they weren't made

Try reading the whole debate next time?

[StaticX]

LOL Corvette is only 0.2 sec faster in acceleration or some thing and both cars have nearly same top speed of 190mph and Viper has 500BHP not 515BHP

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******** i said the NEW viper... read my post ######! the NEW viper has 515 hp! learn how to read

Any further questions go here:

www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

[Dave Veteran]

Lets ease off the bickering gentlemen...

Its a car, no need for anybody to get worked up over it.

[Vettes]

I think you missed our whole debate.  It was not about the L88 verses the '06 Z06, it was about Vettes in general, I said they were designed as a luxary automobile and then evolved into a power ride.  He mentioned the L88 because it was an early corvette that broke the mold about luxary, and went with more power.  However, as you'll see we agreed on, it wasn't a trend, but more of a unique model. 

The point was that the L88 had a lot more power then most Vettes until those of recent.  Newer ones, in our debate, referred to those before the century mark, mostly. 

Nobody said anything about the Z06 not being the fastest or most powerful off the assembly line, quote me where someone said that. 

And FYI, I already gave the year where they weren't made

Try reading the whole debate next time?

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Ummm, 'scuse me....I didn't miss anything.

Please show me where it has been published that the Corvette was designed as a luxury automobile. Please show me the original 1953 sales brochure, and GM marketing materials publishing that the Corvette was desiged to be a luxury automobile.

The fact is, the Corvette was not designed to be a luxury automobile. It was designed to be a sports car, that would act as a testbed for upcoming technology within GM. That's one of the reasons why historically, technolgies have always appeared on the Corvette (or sometimes Cadillac) first, and then trickles down to GM's other platforms.

And the 1968 L88 Corvette had NOTHING to do with breaking some luxury mold. Zora Arkus-Duntov developed the L88 Corvette in order to try and get around GM's ban on factory-backed racing. That's why L88 Corvettes came with no HVAC and radio controls. He wanted to shy the average public away from buying these Corvettes for street use.

The L88 Corvette debuted on the 1967 model. There were several other models that came before the L88 that established the Corvette has a high performance sports car (1957 fuelie, 1963 Z06, 1965 396ci just to name a few).

And FYI, before you debate something, it's good to know what you're talking about?

Edited October 11, 2005 by Vettes

[mufdvr3669]

corvettes == ugly.

sorry. american design, american crap :|

tvr blows those out of the water anyway.

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Yeah, unless you get in a wreck then your dashboard becomes your airbag in the TVR since they don't have any from what I've read and no ABS. If you want an all out sports car then they may be better, but being in a few wrecks myself, the airbag saved my face from the steering wheel twice so far so no thanks to a car without airbags.

Edited October 11, 2005 by mufdvr3669

[StaticX]

oh i checked DODGE's website it has 510 hp we are both wrong, but i at least i admit it. but it is still slower than the Z06! ;)

http://www.dodge.com/viper/

[Orange]

Hehe well i was looking at car sites, so they are miss-leading...can't trust any thing on the net now lol :cry:

[StaticX]

for future referance kid, go to the automakers website, or subcribe to motor trend like me! :D

[xxkrnxstylezxx]

There was a deal for 3 subrcitions (C&D, Mototrend, and something else) for $7... I got in on it

[BigDaddy5]

Ummm, 'scuse me....I didn't miss anything.

Please show me where it has been published that the Corvette was designed as a luxury automobile.  Please show me the original 1953 sales brochure, and GM marketing materials publishing that the Corvette was desiged to be a luxury automobile.

The fact is, the Corvette was not designed to be a luxury automobile.  It was designed to be a sports car, that would act as a testbed for upcoming technology within GM.  That's one of the reasons why historically, technolgies have always appeared on the Corvette (or sometimes Cadillac) first, and then trickles down to GM's other platforms.

And the 1968 L88 Corvette had NOTHING to do with breaking some luxury mold.  Zora Arkus-Duntov developed the L88 Corvette in order to try and get around GM's ban on factory-backed racing.  That's why L88 Corvettes came with no HVAC and radio controls.  He wanted to shy the average public away from buying these Corvettes for street use.

The L88 Corvette debuted on the 1967 model.  There were several other models that came before the L88 that established the Corvette has a high performance sports car (1957 fuelie, 1963 Z06, 1965 396ci just to name a few).

And FYI, before you debate something, it's good to know what you're talking about?

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Show me the numbers.

It wasn't until recent that Vette was able to keep up with their European counterparts. It was a luxary car, it didn't have the engine to compete, less the C2. The C3's where stratling the 200hp line throughout most of the production line, and the C4's didn't fare much better, until they transitioned in 92 to the new engines for them. The C1 didn't break 200 either, as a general rule. Vette's weren't a horsepower car, less a few exceptions, and more specialized (and expensive) models.

Sure, there were some of the unique models put out in each of those years, but as a general rule, they were not about raw power. The numbers don't add up.

I guess you missed the part of the conversation where I already showed I know Vettes. It's ok, I'll forgive you.

I'm a Vette fan to the end, but even I can see that. Hell, it took about 4-5 grand worth of work on my 85 just to get it up to 330hp (to the wheels though, of course)

[Vettes]

Show me the numbers. 

It wasn't until recent that Vette was able to keep up with their European counterparts.  It was a luxary car, it didn't have the engine to compete, less the C2.  The C3's where stratling the 200hp line throughout most of the production line, and the C4's didn't fare much better, until they transitioned in 92 to the new engines for them. The C1 didn't break 200 either, as a general rule.  Vette's weren't a horsepower car, less a few exceptions, and more specialized (and expensive) models. 

Sure, there were some of the unique models put out in each of those years, but as a general rule, they were not about raw power.  The numbers don't add up. 

I guess you missed the part of the conversation where I already showed I know Vettes.  It's ok, I'll forgive you.

I'm a Vette fan to the end, but even I can see that.  Hell, it took about 4-5 grand worth of work on my 85 just to get it up to 330hp (to the wheels though, of course)

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No, I obviously missed the part where you really do know what you're talking about when it comes to Vettes. Your information is incorrect.

C1s "didn't break 200 either"? Really.....

The 1956 Corvette (just 3 years after the car's introduction) was the first year, the Corvette broke the 200 hp mark:

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1956/56specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1957/57specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1958/58specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1959/59specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1960/60specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1961/61specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1962/62specs.html

The C3s strattled the line around 210hp between 1975-1982 with 1981 being the lowest year at 190 hp. They strattled the 200 mark for half the generation's production run, not most. What were the European competitors of that time (for the same money as the Corvette) getting for power?

C4s didn't fare much better? When the 1984 Corvette came debuted it was put up against Ferrari's 308 and Lamborghini's Countach; two formidable competitors. It was consistently put up against Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche.

In the early to mid-eighties, the C4 Corvette was entered in showroom stockcar racing. It was kicked out because it was constantly winning against Porsches and other competitors. So the Corvette Challenge was started. Ironic isn't it....

Yes, there were some unique models put out in some years, but again, the car was not considered to be, built to be, nor classified as a luxury vehicle.

It amazes me how you call yourself a Vette fan, but your historical knowledge of the car isn't exactly accurate.

[BigDaddy5]

No, I obviously missed the part where you really do know what you're talking about when it comes to Vettes.  Your information is incorrect.

C1s "didn't break 200 either"?  Really.....

The 1956 Corvette (just 3 years after the car's introduction) was the first year, the Corvette broke the 200 hp mark:

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1956/56specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1957/57specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1958/58specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1959/59specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1960/60specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1961/61specs.html

http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c1/1962/62specs.html

The C3s strattled the line around 210hp between 1975-1982 with 1981 being the lowest year at 190 hp.  They strattled the 200 mark for half the generation's production run, not most.  What were the European competitors of that time (for the same money as the Corvette) getting for power?

C4s didn't fare much better?  When the 1984 Corvette came debuted it was put up against Ferrari's 308 and Lamborghini's Countach; two formidable competitors.  It was consistently put up against Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche.

In the early to mid-eighties, the C4 Corvette was entered in showroom stockcar racing.  It was kicked out because it was constantly winning against Porsches and other competitors.  So the Corvette Challenge was started.  Ironic isn't it....

Yes, there were some unique models put out in some years, but again, the car was not considered to be, built to be, nor classified as a luxury vehicle.

It amazes me how you call yourself a Vette fan, but your historical knowledge of the car isn't exactly accurate.

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You realize your arguing that the Vette is a power car because it has more then 200 hp, right? Um...I hate to break it to you, but a sports car that strattles the 200hp line is no true sports car. The only half-way valid argument you brought up, albiet with no evidence, was the "fact" that the 84 Vette could beat a Countach.

So, I did a little fact checking, since, as I'm sure your familiar with, the '84 Vette only had 205 hp (it wasn't upped to 240 hp until 85).

I was intrigued to find that the 84 only had a rated max speed of 137mph and a 0-60 time of around 7 seconds.

(http://www.fast-autos.net/chevrolet/84chevroletcorvette.html)

But that must not be able to stop the Vette against the Countach, who was supposed to get a 0-60 time of under 6 seconds (almost 5.5 seconds), and be able to reach 167mph.

But maybe the Ferrari with it's 6.5sec 0-60 time and 154mph top speed is slower then the Vette. No, no, that's still faster, damn.

(http://www.autozine.org/classic/ferrari2.htm)

Which Porsche did it beat now, cuz I'm curious.

I'm aware that the Vette was classified as a sports car, but the car was not pure muscle car, it's more of a luxary side of a sports car. It didn't have the raw power to compete before the 90's and really until the ZR1 and C5's, specialty cars excluded of course.

As for what car runs similar numbers to the Vette at that price: none. What does that have to do with the Vette being a pure bred sports car, or a luxary sports car?

And no need to get into the personal attacks, I don't think I ever went after you, I just attack your facts, like any good argument should.

[Vettes]

You realize your arguing that the Vette is a power car because it has more then 200 hp, right?  Um...I hate to break it to you, but a sports car that strattles the 200hp line is no true sports car. 

OUt of curiosity, please define for me "true sports car" and cite the reference where you found the published definition.

And no need to get into the personal attacks, I don't think I ever went after you, I just attack your facts, like any good argument should.

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Go back and re-read your responses to me:

Try reading the whole debate next time?

I guess you missed the part of the conversation where I already showed I know Vettes. It's ok, I'll forgive you.

It's one thing to debate, it's another to come off sounding like a condescending ass. You say you know Vettes, yet you make statements like:

The C1 didn't break 200 either, as a general rule.  Vette's weren't a horsepower car, less a few exceptions, and more specialized (and expensive) models.

The C1 generation ran from '53 to '62. Only 3 of those model years fell under the 200hp mark.

If you know Vettes like you say you do, great. If you don't, as you've repeatedly proven, then how can you properly participate in a "debate?"

I've been pointing out facts, and you've been twisting them around telling me I'm arguing something I'm not.

You originally stated the car evolved into a "powercar" (see: https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...entry586656897)

My whole point to this "debate" is that the car was not originally designed to be a luxury automobile and yes, it evolved into a power car, which you yourself agreed with, and now, you're saying above that I'm arguing it's a power car because it has more than 200hp. Then you go on to say that a sports car that strattles 200 hp is not a true sports car.

Ok, then define for me what a "true sports car" is. And if your definition is dependent solely on the amount of horsepower the engine produces, I suggest you search for another definition.

Here, let me help:

-- a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons

http://www.wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

-- A sports car is type of automobile designed for sporting performance. While opinions differ as to the exact definition, most sports cars have two seats and two doors, and are designed to excel at a combination of acceleration, top speed, braking, and maneuverability. Great emphasis is often placed on handling?the ability of the car to remain in the control of the driver under challenging condition such as when the car's tires begin to lose their grip on corners.

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

-- An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.

http://www.answers.com/topic/sports-car

A sports car is type of automobile designed for sporting performance. While opinions differ as to the exact definition, most sports cars have two seats and two doors, and are designed to excel at a combination of acceleration, top speed, braking, and maneuverability. Great emphasis is often placed on handling?the ability of the car to remain in the control of the driver under challenging condition such as when the car's tires begin to lose their grip on corners.

A car may be sporting without being a sports car. Performance modifications of regular cars, such as muscle cars, hot hatches and the like do not generally fall in the pure sports car territorA large, powerful engine is not required; many of the early British sports cars lacked a powerful engine and did not accelerate as quickly as, say, muscle cars, but were known for having exceptional handling characteristics due to their combination of light weight, carefully engineered/balanced chassis and innovative suspension designs. Lotus is often cited as an example of this approach. On tight, twisting roads, such a car has higher effective performance than a heavier, more powerful car with less cornering ability.

In many situations, the term "sports car" is used to refer to any car with more power or performance than is typical for cars in general. Often vehicles in the muscle car, performance sedan/saloon or grand tourer (GT) category are referred to as sports cars even though they tend to lack the light weight and excellent handling characteristics of a true sports car.

Due to bureaucratic restrictions in the North American market, many sports cars are not available for sale or use in the United States and Canada. In Britain and Europe, a more flexible attitude towards small-volume specialist manufacturers has allowed companies like TVR, Noble, Pagani, etc. to succeed.

Layout

The layout of drive train and engine influences the handling characteristics of a car and is the focus of more attention in a sports car.

Most modern cars use the FF where the engine is in the front and drives the front wheels. Some sports cars have this layout (e.g. Lotus Elan M100), but due to the limitations of front wheel drive, it is not typical in higher-performance models.

Previously FR, front engine driving rear wheels, was common. This form has survived longer in sports cars than in the mainstream and is declared by some to be the "classic" layout for sports cars. The lighter rear-end and rear drive increases the ability of a car to "drift" around corners without losing control.

In search of improved handling and weight distribution other formats have been tried. MR is a layout commonly found only in sports cars?the engine is mounted towards the centre of the chassis, close behind the driver, and powers the rear wheels.

Porsche are the sole users of the RR layout, a rear engine driving the rear wheels. The qualities of their cars are often said to have come about despite rather than because of this layout. The weight distribution across the wheels in a Porsche cannot be seen as ideal as the weight of the engine is outside the car's wheelbase. This would usually lead to extremely unpredictable handling and, indeed, many of their early Porsches did suffer from this. However, Porsche have continuously refined the design and combined their modifications with electronic driving aids like computerized traction and stabililty control which do much to counteract the inherent flaws of the design. Many of Porsche's techniques have been applied to other cars with success.

One option for transferring the power from the engine to the car's wheels is all wheel drive or AWD. Athough some early passenger cars used this technique (e.g. 1966 Jensen FF) it did not gain widespread acceptance until the 1980s. Audi's great rally racing success with their Quattro in the early 1980s as well as Lancia's success with the Delta Integrale legitimized this layout for sports cars. Since then, many of the top-performing cars from marques like Audi, Porsche and Lamborghini, as well as far-east manufacturers like Mitsubishi, Subaru and Nissan, use AWD in performance cars.

Seating

Some sports cars have small emergency back seats that are really only suitable for luggage or small children. Such a configuration is often referred to as a 2+2 (two full seats + two "occasional" seats). Often these seats are only included to lower insurance premiums.

Over the years, some manufacturers of sports cars have sought to increase the practicality of their vehicles by increasing the seating room.

One method is to place the driver's seat in the center of the car which allows two full-sized passenger seats on each side and slightly behind the driver. The arrangement was originally considered for the Lamborghini Miura but abandoned as impractical because of the difficulty for the driver to enter/exit the vehicle. McLaren used the design in their limited-edition supercar the F1 whose performance was so extraordinary that the inconvenience of getting in and out of the car was dismissed by many owners as a minor complaint.

Another British manufacturer, TVR, took a different approach in their Cerbera model. The interior was designed in such a way that the dashboard on the passenger side swept toward the front of the car which allowed the passenger to sit farther forward than the driver. This gave the rear seat passenger extra room and made the arrangement suitable for three adult passengers and one child seated behind the driver. The arrangement has been referred to by the company as a 3+1.

Examples

Well known specialist brands or marques, new and old, are:

AC

Alfa Romeo

Alpine

Aston Martin

Austin-Healey

Bricklin

Bugatti

Caterham

Corvair

Corvette

De Lorean

Donkervoort

Ferrari

HKT

Jaguar

Koenigsegg

Lamborghini

Ligier

Lotus

Marcos

McLaren

Maserati

MG

Morgan

Noble

Porsche

Spyker

Triumph

TVR

Almost all major car manufacturers also make some form of high performance car, sometimes very successfully such as Ford with the GT40, Mazda with the MX-5/Miata, and Nissan with the Z-car and Skyline GT-R

In my opinion, that bold sentence above, says it all.

You stated:

While I am a Vette enthusiast, the only reason I knew that was because it's my birthyear. 

The year I was born was so important, that Chevy had to stop production of the car I was destined to own.

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The only year the Corvette was not built, was 1983. If that was in fact, your birthyear, then that puts you at about 22 years old? I highly suggest you go back and read the Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Hot Rod magazine articles that came out reviewing the Corvette against competition since 1953. Talk to some of the people that owned Corvettes during the fifties and sixties and ask them how the Corvette was classified, and what people thought of them.

At this point, I think you and I should just agree to disagree and move on....

Edited October 12, 2005 by Vettes

[StaticX]

you tell em how it is vettes!

[BigDaddy5]

It's one thing to debate, it's another to come off sounding like a condescending ass.  You say you know Vettes, yet you make statements like:

The C1 generation ran from '53 to '62.  Only 3 of those model years fell under the 200hp mark.

My whole point to this "debate" is that the car was not originally designed to be a luxury automobile and yes, it evolved into a power car, which you yourself agreed with, and now, you're saying above that I'm arguing it's a power car because it has more than 200hp.  Then you go on to say that a sports car that strattles 200 hp is not a true sports car.

Ok, then define for me what a "true sports car" is.  And if your definition is dependent solely on the amount of horsepower the engine produces, I suggest you search for another definition.

You stated:

The only year the Corvette was not built, was 1983.  If that was in fact, your birthyear, then that puts you at about 22 years old?  I highly suggest you go back and read the Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Hot Rod magazine articles that came out reviewing the Corvette against competition since 1953.  Talk to some of the  people that owned Corvettes during the fifties and sixties and ask them how the Corvette was classified, and what people thought of them.

At this point, I think you and I should just agree to disagree and move on....

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1) I'm sorry you're so touchy. I was not trying to sound condesending, I'm sorry you took it that way.

2) Yes, we're arguing the same thing, just splitting hairs. I never said it wasn't a sports car, just that it was more on the luxary end then the power/racing/"pure" sports car end. It never was able to keep up with their European counterparts, although they had a much higher pricetag then the Vette. Now (and before you jump on me for saying "now," and interpreting that as meaning this 2006 Z06, I mean in recent years, there is no solid change year) it's changed, now they can not only keep up, but run circles around most of them, while keeping their relatively low pricetag. And they have not lost the luxary touch that they've always had.

3) Yes, I am defining a "true" sports car as one that not only has the 2 doors (thanks for quoting wikiopedia by the way, I didn't bother reading it at all), and such, but more so as being the upper end in terms of speed, acceleration, and all that. Ferrari's, Porsche's, Lambo's, Viper, etc. Yes, Vette has always fit that definition, but never has it been able to truley keep up. In it's early comparisions, it usually won based on stopping, overall ride, and such, never on 1/4mile time, acceleration, and sometimes not even handling.

4) I never said it wasn't a sports car, it always has been, but it hasn't been able to keep up. If you can find me a Vette owner back then who thinks their vette was able to keep up with the upper echelon (maybe that's how I should have started this debate, saying that Vette's were more focused on making their cars comfortable then competing with the upper echelon sports cars...is that a better term for you?) of sports cars, then I'll be truley suprised, especially since all the ones I know would never say that.

[pto]

I'm interested to see if the people who stress the cobras and Shelbys have actually driven one on a road that wasn't a straight line..

[StaticX]

the cobra/shelby is in no way in the same leauge as the new Z06! i am sorry, i like the rustang cobra and shelby's.. but the numbers do not lie. Z06 will destroy them on a striaght line, turns, curves, side ways, and every which way.

[ahfunaki]

i love it...

[bdsams Veteran]

i wish i was doing a report on corvettes lol, there is enough info here to right 10 pg paper

[Mystical112]

i wish i was doing a report on corvettes lol, there is enough info here to right 10 pg paper

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lol very true indeed...