Playstation 3 Fans Rejoice!

[Pc_Madness]

Yeah until I get an HDTV Blu-Ray isn't that big of a deal, except for the simple fact that developers will have all the space they need for real next-generation gaming.  EA had to cut back on alot of the features in its madden title simply because the disk was all used up mainly due to the High Res graphic engine.

....

Yeah there will be.  And unlike the 360 you can actually is it for gaming.  Could very well open the doors to a massive flood of PC ports to the PS3.  Genres that usually dont make it over like flight sims, RTS's, and that sort of thing that are generally PC only.

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I was given the impression from reviews that EA cut back what it cut back because it was slack and to make sure it was released on time for launch. A second DVD is hardly the end of the world is it if it really can't fit, is it? Personally I would say its EA being EA, but if you have a quote from them about that...

Keyboards and mice aren't supported on the Xbox because it creates an unlevel playing field. Someone with a Keyboard + mouse will always have more control than someone with a controller, aside from which all games are designed with the controller in mind (ie easier AI). I guess if you wanted to use a keyboard perhaps you should stick with a PC?

[Eaten By A Grue]

exactly...instead of responding to what he's actually said, they're stooping to an all new fanboy low by moaning about him signing up to forums!

i think they just feel insecure cos they dont understand him  :happy:

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That's because they have nothing better to come up with to counter what he says so they attack him personally. udontneed2know posted very good information on the Cell chip and they dismiss him because a.) they don't understand what he is talking about or b.) he is right and they know it or c.) they feel threatened because the processor might be more powerful and/or more useful in other applications besides gaming, then the Xbox360's processor *gasp*

I don't see a problem that he is signed up and posts on the PS3 forums, I am sure the majority of you are signed up on the TeamXbox forums.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Ridley Norfair

[sn00pie]

The PS2 was around $600(taxes included) CAD when it came out. But within a few months the price will drop for sure, the PS2 retails now for what? $159 CAD?

[jerry]

Are you afraid that he knows what he is talking about? He has long, lengthy and intelligent posts.

I don't understand this, he seems to know all these things about the cell processor and yet he is ridiculed by xbox fanboys like you. Okay so i wont generalize, mostly you and jerry. My point is, this guy is just spreading some valuable information and clearing up some misconceptions that people may have about the CELL processor. Let him register on 10 forums and post information, what's the big deal. He is probably the first person on this Console forum who really knows what he is talking about and because he knows what he is talking about he must be sent by Sony righ:rolleyes:s:

Ridiculous.

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What he is posting could be simply a 'cut and paste' job from some where else. There has already been many technical papers on the CELL, so I cannot go through all of them and verify whether:

a. He plagiurised it.

b. He is wrong.

c. He didnt plagiurised it and is correct.

He said that he has written 'many' papers already but so far hasnt put forth a single one yet. I am normal if I find that suspicious.

Quite frankly I have seen people from the industry, developers on forums but not 'general' forums such as Neowin or 'fanboy hangout' ps3forums.

[udontneed2know]

I'm not God so belief really doesn't matter to me. I'll still sleep at night so do or don't, it really doesn't matter.

But yeah I've seen this type of thing a billion times before. Its pretty funny though, instead of attacking or disputing the information they attack or dispute the person bringing the information. It happens all the time on these types of forums loaded with people who really don't have a clue.

I was brought over to this forum here from someone I know. And one day about 6 months ago while thinking about the Playstation 3, naturally my fingers typed in www.ps3forums.com and voila, guess where it took me! :GASP:

But hey keep on doing background checks and spelling checks all you want. Its probably the most pathetic thing I've ever seen before but it does give me a good chuckle.

[BajiRav]

I'm not God so belief really doesn't matter to me.  I'll still sleep at night so do or don't, it really doesn't matter.

But yeah I've seen this type of thing a billion times before.  Its pretty funny though, instead of attacking or disputing the information they attack or dispute the person bringing the information.  It happens all the time on these types of forums loaded with people who really don't have a clue.

I was brought over to this forum here from someone I know.  And one day about 6 months ago while thinking about the Playstation 3, naturally my fingers typed in www.ps3forums.com and voila, guess where it took me!  :GASP:

But hey keep on doing background checks and spelling checks all you want.  Its probably the most pathetic thing I've ever seen before but it does give me a good chuckle.

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why don't you just post link to papers you have written ? that would settle the dispute.

Everything I've read about PS3/XBOX360 processors so far is from reliable sources such as Anandtech, Tom's or ArsTechnica (you can hardly claim them pro-MS). And they don't think PS3-Cell will blow away xbox360 as you claimed.

[udontneed2know]

I've already explained that. I haven't sat back and typed up papers on the internet. There was this creation about I dunno, 5,000 years ago called Paper lol. People write on this paper, and when you go to college and work for various companies you turn those papers into the proper people. Instructors, bosses, you know that type of thing.

Did link you to one of the little things I wrote up a few months ago for the ps3forums crowd though and throughout that forum I've wrote alot about the Cell processor. You'll hear far better conversations, technical conversations at the ps3forums though then you'll ever find on this forum here. Some really intelligent and well placed people throughout that forum.

Andantech is a laughable group of people though. And they are basing their facts off of assumptioms about the Xenon processor which noone really knows anything about. Microsoft will not allow IBM to disclose the information about that processor but we can go off various things we do know about the processor. Like its overall architecture, its FLOP calculating muscle, its bandwidth and Cache reserves, etc. And I've talked to various people I know personally who have worked with the processor and know a few more things then most regular joes who are just speculating.

The GPU of the Xbox360 is highly impressive though, thats atleast one thing Microsoft did right.

[James_McNab]

How can it have fans it doesnt exist yet :rofl:

[BajiRav]

I've already explained that.  I haven't sat back and typed up papers on the internet.  There was this creation about I dunno, 5,000 years ago called Paper lol.  People write on this paper, and when you go to college and work for various companies you turn those papers into the proper people.  Instructors, bosses, you know that type of thing.

:laugh: lol dude do you really know what you just typed there ? You claim you wrote many papers...meaning technical articles. I know what "paper" is. But this is just laughable.

Did link you to one of the little things I wrote up a few months ago for the ps3forums crowd though and throughout that forum I've wrote alot about the Cell processor.  You'll hear far better conversations, technical conversations at the ps3forums though then you'll ever find on this forum here.  Some really intelligent and well placed people throughout that forum.

I've no reason to believe ps3forums is more reliable than neowin. Forum posts mean nada for your claims as jerry said in few posts back.

Andantech is a laughable group of people though.  And they are basing their facts off of assumptioms about the Xenon processor which noone really knows anything about.  Microsoft will not allow IBM to disclose the information about that processor but we can go off various things we do know about the processor.  Like its overall architecture, its FLOP calculating muscle, its bandwidth and Cache reserves, etc.  And I've talked to various people I know personally who have worked with the processor and know a few more things then most regular joes who are just speculating.

The GPU of the Xbox360 is highly impressive though, thats atleast one thing Microsoft did right.

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So do you also mean Tom's & Ars are laughable as well ? :rolleyes: And if no one really knows about xenon processor outside IBM/MS, and you still have some inside information showing it is "blown away" by PS3-Cell ?

[Pc_Madness]

And if no one really knows about xenon processor outside IBM/MS, and you still have some inside information showing it is "blown away" by PS3-Cell ?

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Even though there have been a tonne of articles stating that the PS3 isn't as powerful as they all claim...

[udontneed2know]

I would love to see those articles, really. I have yet to see a paper claiming that the PS3 won't be close to what they claimed it would be.

Quite the opposite really. The Cell processor is perhaps the first of its kind that actually does meet its performance peak under real programming conditions. Not all of course, but many different programming methods will give the Cell the ability to push out 216Gflops of calculating muscle when its all said and done.

Heck even the Mercury website solidifies the Sony/IBM numbers. Right there on the page " Cell can perform 198Gflops of performance and even higher short-integer numbers ".

've no reason to believe ps3forums is more reliable than neowin. Forum posts mean nada for your claims as jerry said in few posts back.

To each his own. Believe or not, stay in the dark or not do you really think I care if you actually believe the information talked about?

So do you also mean Tom's & Ars are laughable as well ? rolleyes.gif And if no one really knows about xenon processor outside IBM/MS, and you still have some inside information showing it is "blown away" by PS3-Cell ?

Learn to read please. While we don't know the exact details we were given glimpses of the overarching architectural layout, FLOP numbers, cache numbers, and various other little details. IBM though is pushing the Cell processor just as hard as Sony and Toshiba are. They made it for the future of their business as much as Sony wanted it built for the future of the console business.

Also consider that IBM only had 2 1/2 years to build the Xenon processor compared to 5 years for the Cell processor. Which is why you see the Xenon processor as a much more generic multi-core processor whereas Cell is a complete reinvention of the multi-core method. 3PPE's with attached VU's is all the Xenon is, all crammed into 1MB of bulk L2 miss happy Cache. More of a PC processor then anything else to be perfectly honest. If the 360 were to run multiple OS's the CPU would be great, but for gaming its going to find itself falling way behind Cell very quickly.

You really don't have to believe me. You'll see the results of the Cell vs. Xenon shortly once the PS3 releases and the games are way beyond those of the 360 launch titles. And I do mean WAY beyond.

[TDQuiksilver]

Wow, you'd think that as happy as these 360 owners seem to be, that they'd rather be off playing their "mightly and powerful console" instead of bickering on here against the competition. Wouldn't you think so? I guess Microsoft can't please their fan-base without enough units afterall. "Fanboy" "Troll" ... the list goes on. Is anybody else just laughing at the fact of how many times these words end up in these debates? I'm pretty sure you'd make your 360 developers a lot happier by blowing your money on their console rather than wasting your time being a keyboard warrior here on Neowin.

Got a friend who has the 360, and yes, it's cool. Great to finally have a next generation console. However, I've also owned the original Playstation and Playstation 2 and have not had one problem with them ever. One recent slip up and so beginss the "Sony SUX!" and "horrible this horrible that" comments. Seems to be Sony has been in the business very very long. They do have great manufacturing, marketing, producing, and so forth. Amazing TVs to say the least. I have my hopes up and will continue to do so. The Playstation 2 was said to be beat because it was released before the XBox, but now it's the other way around. What do 360 owners have to fear? That the next Playstation will be of the later consoles this time.. perhaps being the "better overall?" You win some, you lose some. Suck it up. You were the early release this time. Technology will advance nicely in a year's time and I can't wait to see Sony's offering first hand. :D

[jerry]

:laugh: lol dude do you really know what you just typed there ? You claim you wrote many papers...meaning technical articles. I know what "paper" is. But this is just laughable.

I've no reason to believe ps3forums is more reliable than neowin. Forum posts mean nada for your claims as jerry said in few posts back.

So do you also mean Tom's & Ars are laughable as well ?  :rolleyes: And if no one really knows about xenon processor outside IBM/MS, and you still have some inside information showing it is "blown away" by PS3-Cell ?

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Now that the cat is out of the bag its best to avoid him. ;) Here are two contradicting statements that gave me a chuckle:

And you must think the internet is still way back in 1995 to think people with backgrounds won't go on forums and message boards and BBS's and net groups.  Hell even high class game developers will look at these forums alot.  When I was with Sonic Team in Japan they'd have full days of simply running across various BBS's to see where the minds of the normal and hardcore gamers were.

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I've already explained that.  I haven't sat back and typed up papers on the internet.  There was this creation about I dunno, 5,000 years ago called Paper lol.  People write on this paper, and when you go to college and work for various companies you turn those papers into the proper people.  Instructors, bosses, you know that type of thing.

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[Pc_Madness]

Also consider that IBM only had 2 1/2 years to build the Xenon processor compared to 5 years for the Cell processor.  Which is why you see the Xenon processor as a much more generic multi-core processor whereas Cell is a complete reinvention of the multi-core method.  3PPE's with attached VU's is all the Xenon is, all crammed into 1MB of bulk L2 miss happy Cache. More of a PC processor then anything else to be perfectly honest.  If the 360 were to run multiple OS's the CPU would be great, but for gaming its going to find itself falling way behind Cell very quickly.

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I believe the article may have been from Anandtech (sp?), but not really sure, was very long ago. But either way the article concluded that the processors were about the same speed all things considered.

:huh: Xenon is designed as a cpu for a console. Cell is designed for various pieces of hardware (tv's) and is designed to be scalable, throw in more cell processors to work on a task. Perhaps again the reviews have mislead me, but wasn't Cell orginally going to replace the graphics processor on the PS3? But then they found out it wasn't up to the job, which is why it has a pc-like graphics card in it now?

And the reason everyone is saying that the PS3 is harder to develop for is because its nothing like anything made before...game developers can't port code anymore because it has to be completely rewritten to take advantage of the SPE's.

[Nand]

geez why is this forum still going? :blink: :angry: :no: :no: :no:

just wait till all the consoles come out then test them.

[iconboy]

why is this ignorant thread still going?

Ill just post a few FACTS: 1. The ps3 isnt out yet. 2. The Revolution isnt out yet and 3. Noone in thei thread knows ANYTHING about the cell or the 360 CPU for that matter.

[Spartan_X]

First off, I?m not a PR person doing marketing on this board; second I have a degree on AI from a very well known university and I don?t need to go into any specific detail about what I do for a living and I don?t have a need to prove anything to anybody just to try to convince people to blindly believe everything I say.

Then I don?t give a **** about the CELL or whatever Sony has under their sleeve; I?d access to what IBM has been doing for more than a year since they started working on the Power.org initiative to promote the PowerPC architecture among the industry and I?m a proud founder member such initiative.

I?d said this many times before and this is a good time to say it again; a gamer is not defined by the platform (console or PC or the maker of such platform), it?s defined by the games t:yes:lay with. :yes:

Anyways, here you have a few links to white papers and other material from IBM and Power.org regarding the CELL technology and a little prove of what :devil:before? :devil:

Cell Broadband Engine resource center

Power.org

Power Architecture community calendar: Xbox 360 unveiled

have fun with it and don't make a:blush:f :happy: :blush: :happy:

[udontneed2know]

huh: Xenon is designed as a cpu for a console. Cell is designed for various pieces of hardware (tv's) and is designed to be scalable, throw in more cell processors to work on a task. Perhaps again the reviews have mislead me, but wasn't Cell orginally going to replace the graphics processor on the PS3? But then they found out it wasn't up to the job, which is why it has a pc-like graphics card in it now?

Theres a pretty strong debate over at the Cell IBM forums about how well the Cell would have been at being a GPU. The general agreement is that Cell is way more then up to the task of doing GPU tasks and in some cases the addition of a 2nd Cell would have been even better then providing a dedicated GPU. But no, the decision wasn't because Cell wouldn't have been up to the task, it was a simple development decision. Instead of forcing developers to come up with almost completely new graphic programming templates Sony instead went to Nvidia early on in Cell development to provide PS3 developers a well known OpenGL ES API and a well known development platform for their graphic processing. Going with dual Cell would have just meant developers pretty much having to start from scratch in absolutely everything in development, and not just things CPU related.

Was a hard decision for Sony to make but one they felt they had to make to keep developers happy.

Then I don?t give a **** about the CELL or whatever Sony has under their sleeve; I?d access to what IBM has been doing for more than a year since they started working on the Power.org initiative to promote the PowerPC architecture among the industry and I?m a proud founder member such initiative.

You kind of killed my enthusiasm for you post just by that stupid comment. Everyone in the development community and microprocessing community is excited about Cell and excited to see if turning back the clock is actually the way to go in the future. Providing Local Storage LS SRAM and high bandwidth Registers instead of simply pushing more Cache into the box and throwing more processors into the mix was something that took IBM and Sony a few years to actually bring to the table. Both Sony and IBM and Toshiba spent many years on the intial design of the Cell processor to get it absolutely right. Time constraints for the initial product for sure, but they made it scalable enough to fit any challenge in the future. From dedicated DPU's (double precision units ) to multiple different types of the overall architecture ( 4PPE's * 36 SPE's, 2PPE's * 16 SPE's, etc. ). Cell is incredibly scalable for any future requirements that may come up. And hell it wouldn't take long for them to make it an out-of-order processor at that.

But I'll look over your links a little. But you know, IBM has far more stuff about Cell then that.

Already finding false information in your articles. This hands on preview states the CPU does 1 Tflop. Thats false, thats the GPU+CPU. More comments to come.

More false information, another article states 3.2Ghz is the highest ever achieved for a Power core. PS3's prototype can hit up to 4.6Ghz.

IBM and Microsoft engineers worked together over a two-year period beginning in 2003 to design the three-core processor specifically for high definition gaming and entertainment, the company said.

    IBM is quite proud that it delivered the product in less than 24 months after signing a deal with Microsoft in the fall of 2003.

I was more wrong then I originally thought. The IBM chip was taped out in early 2005, which means IBM was forced to make the Xenon processor in only 2 years. You can see the result of Microsoft rushing IBM so badly in the overall design of the Xenon processor. Like I said, a very generic multi-core architecture. Simply 3 PPE's with attached Vectors for a little more muscle. Much like the PS2 architecture.

You really think the Cell after 5 years of design and production is exactly the same as the Xenon which only had 2 years design and production? Thats rather pathetic for someone who is supposedly educated in this field. All you have to do is look at the official numbers anyway. Cell = 216Gflops. Xenon = 100Gflops Rmax, probably much less considering the use of mainly PPE's with attached vectors and a bottleneck inducing amount of cache and only cache. Anyway, more comments to come. But rather underwhelming stuff here so far, and very old to boot. Even before the official unveiling of Cell lol. Nice work in digging in the garbage dumps though.

Edited November 28, 2005 by udontneed2know

[Eaten By A Grue]

Was a hard decision for Sony to make but one they felt they had to make to keep developers happy.

You kind of killed my enthusiasm for you post just by that stupid comment.  Everyone in the development community and microprocessing community is excited about Cell and excited to see if turning back the clock is actually the way to go in the future.  Providing Local Storage LS SRAM and high bandwidth Registers instead of simply pushing more Cache into the box and throwing more processors into the mix was something that took IBM and Sony a few years to actually bring to the table.  Both Sony and IBM and Toshiba spent many years on the intial design of the Cell processor to get it absolutely right.  Time constraints for the initial product for sure, but they made it scalable enough to fit any challenge in the future.  From dedicated DPU's (double precision units ) to multiple different types of the overall architecture ( 4PPE's * 36 SPE's, 2PPE's * 16 SPE's, etc. ).  Cell is incredibly scalable for any future requirements that may come up.  And hell it wouldn't take long for them to make it an out-of-order processor at that.

But I'll look over your links a little.  But you know, IBM has far more stuff about Cell then that.

Already finding false information in your articles.  This hands on preview states the CPU does 1 Tflop.  Thats false, thats the GPU+CPU.  More comments to come.

More false information, another article states 3.2Ghz is the highest ever achieved for a Power core.  PS3's prototype can hit up to 4.6Ghz.

I was more wrong then I originally thought.  The IBM chip was taped out in early 2005, which means IBM was forced to make the Xenon processor in only 2 years.  You can see the result of Microsoft rushing IBM so badly in the overall design of the Xenon processor.  Like I said, a very generic multi-core architecture.  Simply 3 PPE's with attached Vectors for a little more muscle.  Much like the PS2 architecture.

You really think the Cell after 5 years of design and production is exactly the same as the Xenon which only had 2 years design and production?  Thats rather pathetic for someone who is supposedly educated in this field.  All you have to do is look at the official numbers anyway.  Cell = 216Gflops.  Xenon = 100Gflops Rmax, probably much less considering the use of mainly PPE's with attached vectors and a bottleneck inducing amount of cache and only cache.  Anyway, more comments to come.  But rather underwhelming stuff here so far, and very old to boot.  Even before the official unveiling of Cell lol.  Nice work in digging in the garbage dumps though.

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He doesn't understand, don't even bother trying. First he claims he has a degree in AI, which has little to do with processor design. Second like many others, they can't see past the fact that the Cell is not just built specifically for gaming systems, but was designed in such a way to be utilized by other products, which something the Xenon is not going to be capable of. Or the fact that Sony has alot riding with this processor and they have been designing this for years, not something designed purely for a gaming system that has been developed in a shorter period of time.

[icecaveman]

udontneed2know PLEASE stop posting flops as they matter to gaming performance. THEY SIMPLY DON'T!

Sure it will be good for specialiced servers/farms and even high-end workstations but it has very little to do with gaming performance.

[Eaten By A Grue]

anyways, there's has to be a "logical" reason why Steve Jobs himself told Sony and Ken Kutaragi to take the CELL and all of their "free" to use patents and technologies somewhere else because Apple didn't saw anything they could use to take their products to he next level and insteed they went the Intel way. /me still wonders why? oh God why???????? :p was it because CELL was way to "revolutionary" for Apple or was it beacuse they think the CELL is just another placebo or maybe Apple is just waiting for the second coming to Jesus to help them to control the unlimited power of the all mighty CELL... :devil: muahahahaha!

oh well, the final score is Apple 1, Sony 0... :pregards! :yes:

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Who cares if Apple doesn't want to use the Cell chip, it doesn't spell out doom for the Cell chip. Sony will probably be using it in all their future products like televisions, computers, stereos, dvd/blu-ray players, etc. and there are plenty of other companies that want to or will be using it. Even this months Popular Science magazine had an article that featured the Cell chip and how it will be used in specific Toshiba's HDTV sets next year to decode high-def signals.

Edited November 28, 2005 by Ridley Norfair

[Spartan_X]

can you tell me where in my post did I mention your name? my comments were not targeted at you but it seems like somebody is feeling the heat already... :p

also, can you quote me on any technical comment about the Xenon or CELL on this threat? nope? ok...

then, all the "false" information and statements on the links I provided comes directly from IBM, not Microsoft or any other third party, IBM!!! wow, if this is true I just can't imagine the amount of false information about CELL on IBMs web site... :p

anyways, there's has to be a "logical" reason why Steve Jobs himself told Sony and Ken Kutaragi to take the CELL and all of their "free" to use patents and technologies somewhere else because Apple didn't saw anything they could use to take their products to the next level and insteed they went the Intel way. /me still wonders why? oh God why???????? :p was it because CELL was way to "revolutionary" for Apple or was it beacuse they think the CELL is just another placebo or maybe Apple is just waiting for the second coming to Jesus to help them to control the unlimited power of the all mighty CELL... :devil: muahahahaha!

oh well, the final score is Apple 1, Sony 0... :p

well, as you can see I'm not taking this whole thing as serious as you do and I'm just making fun out of it and hope you and the other guys/girls here do the same. we're not getting paid for comming to this board to discuss this kind of thing, aren't we? or... maybe yes... ;) oh well, God knows... :p

regards! :yes:

Edited November 28, 2005 by Spartan_X

[anthony]

I'm sorry, I started reading the first few posts here, and I just had to bump in, because I'm sick of this. Think the Xbox 360 is better than the PS3? Think the PS3 is better than the Xbox 360? Well, shove it. Oh, but but, the PS3 has blu-ray, surely the 360 has met it's match. No, no it hasn't because the Xbox 360 is currently the only 'next generation' option. Well the 360 has the PS3 beat, look at the price and date advantages. No, it doesn't have the PS3 'beat' because the system isn't out. AHHHH While it's great to speculate, it's heresay.

Oh, and wondering what console I'm getting? None, I don't play games at all. So, I have no bias, period.

[b mitchell]

I'm sorry, I started reading the first few posts here, and I just had to bump in, because I'm sick of this. Think the Xbox 360 is better than the PS3? Think the PS3 is better than the Xbox 360? Well, shove it. Oh, but but, the PS3 has blu-ray, surely the 360 has met it's match. No, no it hasn't because the Xbox 360 is currently the only 'next generation' option. Well the 360 has the PS3 beat, look at the price and date advantages. No, it doesn't have the PS3 'beat' because the system isn't out. AHHHH While it's great to speculate, it's heresay.

Oh, and wondering what console I'm getting? None, I don't play games at all. So, I have no bias, period.

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:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[Spartan_X]

Who cares if Apple doesn't want to use the Cell chip, it doesn't spell out doom for the Cell chip.  Sony will probably be using it in all theri future products like televisions, computers, stereos, dvd/blu-ray players, etc. and there are plenty of other companies that want to or will be using it.  Even this months Popular Science magazine had an article that featured it and how it will be used in specific Toshiba's HDTV sets next year to decode high-def signals.

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hehehe.. WOWWWWWWW :woot:

that's amazing you know! just what everybody needs now days... a TV with a +3ghz processor to decode HDTV signals, maybe they found out the elfs inside my TV are running low on magic spells to decode such amount o data.... :D

come on, be real for just one minute and tell me how much that thing is going to cost and I tell you how many people are going to be camping outside best buy and circuit city to buy them when they come out. :p

I'd never said the CELL sucks or anything like it, I just have my reserves about what it can do on real world scenario, because on paper you cast magic and everything you want... just take a look at all of the articles about the Emotion Engine on Ars and any other well known tech websites, back on those days they tought the EE was a great technology advance but it never ever materialized on anything else other than the PS2 and everyboby was talking about how the computer industry was going to be taken by storm by all the things that you were supposed to do with the EE and yet we're on the year 2005 and all the computers are still running on Intel and AMD processors. hope this time around the CELL has a better chance to prove itself and show us what a multiyear/multibillion dollar R&D can do to take us to the next level not just in video games but on the way we use technology everyday... :yes: