PS3: Unreal Tournament 2007

[-T- Member]

The more I read, the more I am convinced that udontneedtoknow thinks that Cell will be the answer to every problem ever faced. It'll do ur laundry, make your dinner, wash your car, all on it's seperate SPE's while the main PPE pleasures you in other ways.

I'll wait until the PS3 is released and in the hands of impartial testers, before I even begin to believe any hype.

[theyarecomingforyou]

THIS IS WHY SONY WENT WITH NVIDIA BACK IN 2002. They wanted the programmers to have a very well known API like OpenGL/ES to ease development. Going with Dual Cell would have destroyed anything out on the market but would have been about 50x more complex to learn then providing a GPU.

Sony went with nVidia when they realised that their Cell architecture couldn't handle graphics very well - however, they brought nVidia in late which put them at a disadvantage in terms of performance, whereas Microsoft were looking at separate graphics from the beginning and gave ATi time to properly develop their graphics solution (which helped for features like the unified pipeline). Sony certainly didn't go with nVidia because the Cell was hugely superior to anything on the market. :wacko: I'm somewhat disturbed by your logic. :|

[BajiRav]

What is OpenGL the only language you know or something? There are a billion ways to make a processor output graphics dude, OpenGL is just one of them. This is exactly my point. I've already talked about this **** awhile ago, YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO COMPREHENSION OF ANYTHING IN THE REAL WORLD lol. I've said this stuff already. Its rather pointless trying to debate with you when all you do is sprout BS, I call youo nthe BS and provide facts from the experts, and then you just ignore it and 6 responses later go back to what I've already talked about before. THIS IS WHY SONY WENT WITH NVIDIA BACK IN 2002. They wanted the programmers to have a very well known API like OpenGL/ES to ease development. Going with Dual Cell would have destroyed anything out on the market but would have been about 50x more complex to learn then providing a GPU.

talk about contradicting yourself in the same para :rolleyes: :p

and its not really good insulting threedaysdown. You are not answering his valid points (like still comparing xenon 1tflop with cell+rsx 2tflops)

try to be civil for your own sake.

You think the Geforce 7800 is incapable of HDR and FSAA at the same time, yet I'm able to run HL2 Lost Coast with FSAA x4 with HDR lighting turned on with my ****in Geforce 6600.

7800 does not do FSAA&HDR in Lost coast. I don't know anything about your magical 6600.

[spvath]

For those that have no idea what's going on, if you really read what threedaysdwn is talking about and compare it to what udontneed2know is saying, it's blatantly obvious that udontneed2know has no idea what he's talking about. In terms of education, it's obvious that udontneed2know resorted to insults rather than trying to proove that threedaysdwn may be wrong (which he apparently failed). Still, it's an interesting read nonetheless.

Well said. You can know absolutely nothing about computers and still deduce that threedaysdwn is giving a much more solid argument. And its amazing to me that udont is still claiming that "he's the only one in the thread giving facts". Compare the number and quality of sources he's given compared to three. And keep in mind this is a discussion on hardware capabilities, not a fanboy battle. And there's no need to attack anyone, ever.

[tHa_vIlLaMaN]

What is OpenGL the only language you know or something? There are a billion ways to make a processor output graphics dude, OpenGL is just one of them. This is exactly my point. I've already talked about this **** awhile ago, YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO COMPREHENSION OF ANYTHING IN THE REAL WORLD lol. I've said this stuff already. Its rather pointless trying to debate with you when all you do is sprout BS, I call youo nthe BS and provide facts from the experts, and then you just ignore it and 6 responses later go back to what I've already talked about before. THIS IS WHY SONY WENT WITH NVIDIA BACK IN 2002. They wanted the programmers to have a very well known API like OpenGL/ES to ease development. Going with Dual Cell would have destroyed anything out on the market but would have been about 50x more complex to learn then providing a GPU.

Wait - are you saying that the 216GFLOP Cell is MUCH faster than the 1.8TFLOP RSX *gasp*. How can this be? What about all those flops?

Since thats the case the so-called 2TFLOP PS3 vs the 1TFLOP XBox 360 agument is now NULL AND VOID since Flops obviously don't mean anything, according to yuor logic. :no:

With that statement right there you basically defeated yourself on most if not all the points you put forth. Go figure :whistle:

And BTW please, PLEASE stop with the 50 lols per post. PLEASE, its pretty annoying

[mrt2]

Believe what you like. I'm the only one actually providing facts this entire thread though.

Funny how that works. You believe a guy who thinks the Cell is copying the Xenon even though Xenon was started 2 years after the Cells design started. You believe a guy who thinks the Xenon is capable of 100Gflops of DP performance on a 3 core processor architecture. You actually believe a guy who thinks in todays world fully loaded textures with FSAA and HDR take up only 8MB of buffer space lmao. Buy hey, its up to you to believe what you want.

The proof is in the pudding. When I actually see a 360 game that even greatly enhances that of what we've seen out of todays PC's then I'll begin thinking of the 360 as an actual architectural and graphical competitor to the Playstation 3. But that day has still yet to come.

Quake 4 chugs. Gears of War after a full year and months still chugs. Full Auto which was shown at E3 a long time ago still chugs on the 360.

Then you have UT2007, running on un-optimized code at 720p at 49FPS lol. You have Heavenly Sword throwing around 30,000 models at the screen at once, using individualized AI routines, using 1080p at a solid framerate with many more months of final kit development time to go. Then you have Warhawk and Gundam, both looking in playable fashion better then they did in their respective demos.

The proof is in the pudding. Show me proof of the 360's capabilities please. Because well, I've yet to see anything that can't be done on my computer right now, and in Quake 4's case, with a much smoother framerate.

Its going to be absolutely hilarious to see you guys eating your words lol. When the 360 is chasing after PS3 launch games for the next 2 years.

I just have a few non-biased, non-hating, non-foolish, non-sarcastic, and non-childish questions; if I may?

1. How long have you owned the ps3 you are basing all of your information on?

2. How many of the titles you are talking about, have you personally played in your own living room?

3. How long have you been writing code and developing for the ps3?

4. How long have you owned a xbox360?

5. How many of the titles have you played with such horrible performance in your own living room?

6. How long have you been writing code and developing for the xbox360?

7. How long have you been testing the said titles in your post side by side in a controlled environment?

If the answer to ANY of these questions are in line with the following: None, I haven't, no, or zero then all of your said facts, claims and representations are not valid. The logic is also contaminated. Speaking from a pure science and testing perspective none of what you are providing can be viewed as valid or factual. Also speaking from a programming and graphic design/rendering background, the things you are saying just don't seem to make sense or even add up. Also speaking from a buisness perspective and a business owners perspective, if I could make a product which was completely superior to my competitor; AND keep from having to sign any more contracts and spending any more money in the initial investment or the back end, I would do it(any logical business would). But you expect me to believe, they (Sony) decided to spend more money for less performance because it was easier on the coders? After doing the TOTAL opposite on all of their other consoles, that is hard to believe. They had no problem with having the coders undergoing a learning curve in the last two consoles. Anyhow that part is besides the point. The first 7 questions are undoubtedly the 'pudding' where your so called 'proof' is. This is all un-biased commentation. I'm not a fan boy of Nintendo, MS, or Sony. I appreciate things for what they are. And I plan on owning all systems. Anyone who limits himself or experiences for the soul purpose of biasly backing one product(fanboyism) doesn't really have a valid perspective from which to draw conclusions. The End

Edited December 13, 2005 by mrt2

[yankee lion]

This topic is about UT2007. Please stay on topic, this is getting ridiculous.

New screens at 1UP: http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3146307&did=1

Edited December 13, 2005 by Surrieall

[cau]

Anyone have a link to the PSM scans?

[((Ecko))]

For those who doubt cell's abilities as a gpu here is an interesting benchmark:

"To our surprise, well not really, we found that using only 7 SPEs for rendering a 3.2 GHz Cell chip could out run an Nvidia 7800 GT OC card at this task by about 30%. We reserved one SPE for the image compression and delivery task. Furthermore the way CG structures it SIMD computation is inefficient as it causes large percentages of the code to execute in scalar mode. This is due to the way they structure their vector data, AOS vs SOA. By converting this CG shader from AOS to SOA form, SIMD utilization was much higher which resulted in Cell out performing the Nvidia 7800 by a factor of 5 - 6x using only 7 SPEs for rendering."

Basically he or they, ported a method of ray-tracing that uses floating point power in GPUS to the cell, then put it up against a 7800 GT, and cell out performs it.

Link

I doubt this may be very significant in real world applications but interesting nonetheless...

Edit: Oh this is offtopic.....Yea Unreal is looking good, looking forward to it, and stuff :whistle:

[Laughing-Man]

...looking forward to it, and stuff :whistle:

On the PC!

[Brandon Live Veteran]

For those who doubt cell's abilities as a gpu here is an interesting benchmark:

"To our surprise, well not really, we found that using only 7 SPEs for rendering a 3.2 GHz Cell chip could out run an Nvidia 7800 GT OC card at this task by about 30%. We reserved one SPE for the image compression and delivery task. Furthermore the way CG structures it SIMD computation is inefficient as it causes large percentages of the code to execute in scalar mode. This is due to the way they structure their vector data, AOS vs SOA. By converting this CG shader from AOS to SOA form, SIMD utilization was much higher which resulted in Cell out performing the Nvidia 7800 by a factor of 5 - 6x using only 7 SPEs for rendering."

Basically he or they, ported a method of ray-tracing that uses floating point power in GPUS to the cell, then put it up against a 7800 GT, and cell out performs it.

Link

I doubt this may be very significant in real world applications but interesting nonetheless...

Edit: Oh this is offtopic.....Yea Unreal is looking good, looking forward to it, and stuff :whistle:

I can't say for sure (that source looks sketchy at best), but that sounds a lot like the terrain ray-caster that "udontneed2know" was talking about. But it has absolutely nothing to do with games.

It's talking about those old ray-casting terrain simulators like Bryce. I've never heard of one running on a GPU but who knows.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Under all that hatred and anger, there was some truth to what udontneed2know was saying. I'm not implying that he is a liar. I am simply stating what I believe is the truth.

[-Anthony]

What is the point of even posting here if you don't like the PS3, or even Sony.

Quit spamming and play Halo 2. This is **** is so damn annoying.

[Andre]

I don't like UT, can I post?

[blackice912 Veteran]

For the sake of sanity, talk about the game and stop comparing 360/PS3!

[Ajapi]

LOL this thread somehow turned into a flame fest where everybody just threw around basically every technical term they could find. Frame buffers, SPEs, PPEs, transistor counts, polygon counts, floating point performance....It's like "MY 1337 VOCAHBULRY PWNS URS!!!". Also, they managed to turn it into a PS3 vs. 360 war...again :p

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

UT2007 looks cool... :whistle: :|

[yawza]

Whats up with bitching man? I dont think people really fdont carea bout your rants in essay form. enough with the bitching and moaning.

Anywayz, you think UT2007 is Sony's answer to Microsfts Halo3? i mean the newest addition is vehicles. Just wanted to know you guys's opinion

[((Ecko))]

I think the mods should just filter PS3 as a curse word and lock every thread with that word in it because theres no way a discussion on this whole website can go on and be civilized without Xbox freedom fighters rushing in and declaring war such as threedaysdwn. I know MS is paying you, but damn are they paying you that much that nothing good about ps3 can be said? If you truelly knew that ps3 sucked and xbox360 was better, i would just sit back if i were you and laugh when the ps3 launched and watch it bomb instead of writing mla format college essays about how the ps3 blows more than jenna jameson. Yea those are your oppinions on your posts but in my oppinion, opinion's are like a$$holes, everyone has one and they all smell.

Oh yea Unreal 2007...., cant wait! :whistle:

[Brandon Live Veteran]

I think the mods should just filter PS3 as a curse word and lock every thread with that word in it because theres no way a discussion on this whole website can go on and be civilized without Xbox freedom fighters rushing in and declaring war such as threedaysdwn. I know MS is paying you, but damn are they paying you that much that nothing good about ps3 can be said? If you truelly knew that ps3 sucked and xbox360 was better, i would just sit back if i were you and laugh when the ps3 launched and watch it bomb instead of writing mla format college essays about how the ps3 blows more than jenna jameson. Yea those are your oppinions on your posts but in my oppinion, opinion's are like a$$holes, everyone has one and they all smell.

Huh? I never said anything bad about the PS3 or that the Xbox 360 was better. I only responded to inaccurate claims made by other posters.

[Laughing-Man]

Huh? I never said anything bad about the PS3 or that the Xbox 360 was better.

Never said anything bad about the PS3?

I get the feeling the PS3 is going to get roxored.

Neowin

Or said the Xbox360 was better?

Huh?

The Xbox 360 has a vastly more useful CPU.

The Xbox 360 has a vastly more powerful GPU.

The Xbox 360 has a more flexible memory achitecture.

There's really no argument... The X360 is the superior hardware platform.

But where it really kicks butt is software. Sony doesn't know software. But Microsoft does. The X360 is a god send for game developers.

Neowin

When the Xbox 360 has better hardware, better games, and a better developer story (read: XNA studio is a god send for game developers)... it's reasonable to think that Sony's in for a thrashing, especially in the US and Europe.

Neowin

[Xerxes]

Looks sweet :)

[((Ecko))]

Huh? I never said anything bad about the PS3 or that the Xbox 360 was better. I only responded to inaccurate claims made by other posters.

lol Ive been lurking these boards for a while without posting, and Ive noticed you down the ps3 in tons of threads, im sure a lot of people can agree with me. But I wont argue, if thats what you believe then I guess it is what it is.

[cau]

Found the scans.

And it already runs at ~50 FPS in 720p on not final PS3 hardware. :|

[gunnerhkjp]

Why don't you buy both PS3 and Xbox360?

Its not like buying a house.

Nice scans, by the way. The gfx looks awesome.