Man I love linux!

[thagame]

lol its funny when people say how good with linux they are then say they are using something like ubuntu as if it requires any work or skill at all. i wouldnt say i love linux but i definitly enjoy dualbooting.

[Kreuger]

I don't think anyone said how good they are..I said it was easy, fast and enjoyable.. I'm a noob and I like (k)Ubuntu, that doesn't mean it requires less skill to say the least.

[Prosidius]

lol its funny when people say how good with linux they are then say they are using something like ubuntu as if it requires any work or skill at all. i wouldnt say i love linux but i definitly enjoy dualbooting.

It requires skill. You gotta use Bash.

[Rory99]

i really like my linux console, i am still learning how to do stuff, but i am still learning how to do most things, i find alot of the time its trial and error, but i laugh when my family members, who use windows on their computers, have major virus and spyware problem, i laugh and brag about how smooth my computer runs

the only time i have ever had a problem with my computer is when i tried to add another hard drive, i screwed my computer up so bad i had to reinstall everything lol

i know i need to upgrade my distro because i am running on mandrake 10.0 and it is starting to show its age.

the only problems i ever have is when i try to do something with hardware, i usually end up posting on here when i have a hardware issue

[EduardValencia]

man i love windows,so?

[markwolfe Veteran]

man i love windows,so?

Then go and create your own thread about your positively warm and fuzzy feelings about that OS over in the Windows sections, please.

[zeta_immersion]

I am in between linux, windows and unix (freebsd) but i am having problems ... some apps are only windows and getting them to work on the *nix environment is hard, i would love to get unix to work, man i would praise the system in anciant egiptian but i think it depends what you wanna do ... freebsd is for servers only dedicated machines mostly, linux is for in between cause you can find some progs here nad there and u can make it as it best fits your need, where as windows is for peopel that don't care and don't want to know anything, they want to be fed with a tiny spoon and thaz it( i still use windows) ... mac is good too, so i guess it depends on your needs and now enlightened you want to become ... is sad though that i am craving unix yet school is a biach taking my time (i still make time for it though progress is slow but rewarding)

[leovanham]

i'm using Ubuntu now and find it rather enjoyble :)

[Mouldy Punk]

I've kinda gone of linux really. Windows does everything I want it to do hassle free. Linux does most things I want to do with a bit of know-how. It probably took me a month to get my linux box set up how I like it, and even now the surround sound doesn't work properly and ATI's drivers are crap (granted that's ATIs fault not linux's). Linux was great to learn a new OS, learn how things work and stuff. But practically, just doesn't cut the cake for me. I used to use the linux is more secure than windows argument all the time, but, in reality if the user has a bit of common sense then windows is just as secure as linux. Sure windows has loads more exploits, but only idiots get exploited. I haven't been effected by any major windows virus or exploit. The only times I've gotten virii is from my own stupid mistakes.

Gaming is 100x better on windows that linux. The ATI drivers are rubbish, native linux games out there is minimal, so I need to use WINE or Cedega and even then not all games work. Granted it's not linux's fault that ATI can't be arsed to pull their finger out of what they sit on and make some decent drivers, and it's not linux's fault that game developers aren't making games for linux. We can play the blame game all day, but the bottom line is, linux gaming is crap, regardless of who's fault it is.

I have to say though, the customisability of linux is great. Tweaking fluxbox has been fun, much more interesting than spending major buckage on a bunch of 3rd party apps to hack away at windows' .dlls and the like. That's another good thing about linux, most software is free.

IMO linux is good, but what's the point of using it if you already have windows that does everything you want it to do? If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Daylene]

I moved one From using Windows ME for 5 years, then Windows 2000 for about 6 months. After I got a PC that could run Linux, I put on Ubuntu, then moved to Arch Linux.

I have never been happier. The system runs like a dream, It doesn't get viruses, spyware or any crapware, and everyhting for the most part is free. From when I started with Ubuntu, I swore I'll never use Windows again. I've been using Linux for a month now, and haven't looked back once. (Although my work laptop runs Windows 2000, and my other PC runs Windows ME, but I rarely use them, and its only to fix them for the family, or to go to work with)

As for gaming? I couldn't care less. I haven't played a PC game in ages. (I prefer my Playstation 2, and soon to have PS3)

[Kreuger]

I've kinda gone of linux really. Windows does everything I want it to do hassle free. Linux does most things I want to do with a bit of know-how. It probably took me a month to get my linux box set up how I like it, and even now the surround sound doesn't work properly and ATI's drivers are crap (granted that's ATIs fault not linux's).

A month? even being a Linux noob it rarely took more than a DAY for me to set it up how I like it, including finding programs I wanted and installing and learning the basic functions of them. It isn't as hard as people seem to think (at least if you're using a distro based on Debian because the apt system is freakin' sweet) and now it takes me a few minutes to set it how I want.

I used to use the linux is more secure than windows argument all the time, but, in reality if the user has a bit of common sense then windows is just as secure as linux. Sure windows has loads more exploits, but only idiots get exploited. I haven't been effected by any major windows virus or exploit. The only times I've gotten virii is from my own stupid mistakes.

And no not only idiots get viruses on Windows. I am overly cautious with most things and still managed to get exploited a lot. Albeit in the early days I probably made enough people angry to want to attack my computer everytime they see it online, I became smart using a lot of crap to protect myself and no matter what I did, I had problems with viruses, spyware and other crap even with all the best software to prevent it (and even a router/firewall didn't help).

[rockwolf]

I have found Linux to be perfect for web servers. For desktops, not quite. I own too many games, and it's not compatible with my sound blaster audigy 2 sound card.

rockwolf,

the Audigy 2 is perfectly supported. I use one myself. There must have been a configuration problem or something...

sry i forgot to mention its the Notebook (pcmcia) version, RedHat wont even boot if I have it in the slot. if you or anyone else has had luck with this let me know, but to the best of my knowledge it aint gonna work.

EDIT: Fedora Core 4 (still used to calling it RedHat lol)

Edited January 9, 2006 by rockwolf

[LaNcom]

Ah, the infamous PCMCIA Audigy... ;-)

Yep, that one doesn't work, or more precisely, it _does_ work for a few days now, using pre-release ALSA drivers. Support is available for kernel 2.6.15 and ALSA 1.0.11-rc2 and later, but it's still beta (it wasn't really tested, but recent kernel and ALSA releases at least boot up with that card and recognize it just fine).

[reactionary007]

Linux gives me gas!

:x

Just kidding. Actually, if you put Linux on a good piece of hardware it is downright zippy... and that is what I love the most. Cause honestly, about all I use a computer for is browsing the internet and the zippier the better. I don't worry about games compatibility or 3D compatibility. Thats not to say I don't like my desktop to look good however - and Gnome's customizeability serves me quite well for that. Gotta say my favorite distro is Novell Linux Desktop 9.

[linked]

I really enjoy using linux, as it increases my productivity quite a bit, and it feels a lot more customizable (*usually, see below issues)-- Getting my windows box to look pretty always feels *naughty*, with all the dll hacking, etc.

However, I still use WinXP for a few simple reasons- And this isn't meant to troll, so I'm sorry if anyone gets defensive; I'm just trying to voice my reasons for not using linux.

1) All my music is on my secondary NTFS drive. 70+ gb of files on a drive that has limited support (ntfs writing is "unsupported" or "beta" in most kernels i've used up through 2.6.11r7) and just doesn't *feel* natively attached. The simple answer is, of course, "Repartition and copy everything over", but my simple reply is "Why should I have to?" NTFS is, in my opinion, superior to everything but Reiser4, which is beta (or alpha?), and when you think about how convenient linux makes it to switch in all other cases, repartitioning is an aweful pain in the ass. Plus, it'd break my ability to dual boot and still have access in WinXP :no:

2) I like .net 2.0 for programming, and hate working with Mono.

3) The schism betwixt GTK and QT is frustrating. Sure, there's GTK-to-QT, or whatever it's called, but it's never worked fully properly in my 30+ distro installs. I want to run gnome, or kde- just one of them, mind you, and I want to use Amarok and gaim side by side without graphical inconsitencies, even if I'm using a "third party" skin. And when I finally manage to get them both looking the same through hours of configuration, I don't want certain features of Amarok to be broken (which, strangely, always happens to me. Some config windows just cease to function in GTK/QT apps when using the other WM)

4) Not all of my hardware works. The "Official" response on both Gentoo and Ubuntu forums to my question, "How can I change the defaulted sound card from AC'97 on-board to USB Extigy?" has always been (and I've asked often), "Disable the AC'97 in your bios." Ridiculous, because I happen to have practical applications for both. (One runs the surround sound that's all over my room for media-center action, and one runs the speakers closer to the computer for music, in case you're interested). I have a mouse with two mousewheels, a back button, and a forward button. At best, I can get one mouse wheel to work... and yes, I've followed every "how to use back/forward buttons!" tutorial out there.

cat /dev/input/mice

will often show *no output whatsoever* on the back/forward button presses, meaning they're not even mappable. I have similar issues with my logitech keyboard, my usb-wireless-screenlock, my ASIO recording sound card, etc, etc, etc... And don't try telling me to "look harder" for fixes, because it's nothing I've taken lightly.

5) Ugly alternative apps. IMHO, Aim 5.8.x is prettier and more friendly than any other replacement app, windows or linux-- It beats gaim, trillian, miranda, everything in my eyes. Photoshop is better than GIMP, Winamp > *, even notepad is more simplistic and *better feeling* than gedit, nano, vim, emacs, and any other editor with or without gui.

6) As it's been stated, it feels like most linux guis are just click-to-exec interfaces. In WinXP, things *feel like they happen* when you click. Executing a program/shortcut feels like it's just starting the program, rather than linux's "Somehow, somewhere, I know a console is scrolling". I can't well articulate the feeling, but linux just feels like everything is a poor coverup for the command line (not that there's anything wrong with the command line).

In all fairness, if linux could just *feel* cleaner and more efficient, like windows feels to me (even if not to others), I'd be glad to drop the rest of my qualms and take it up. Windows gives me just as many troubles, they're just things that I've found easy workarounds for (where no such workarounds exist for my linux issues). If gedit could feel natural, gimp could step it up, and gaim wasn't so damned fugly, I'd gladly repartition my music and make the leap.

As for the spyware/viruses arguement, I'm proud to boast 24 months of two side-by-side winxp machines which average 3-4gb combined bandwidth per day (on the internet, not LAN), mostly web browsing, IMAP and AIM traffic, and neither have had a single virus in the entirety of their lifetime. And I don't use any firewall, antivirus, spy scanner, popup blocker or any protection, save my router.

[LaNcom]

Hey linked, quite a few misconceptions there:

1) It's not Linux' fault that MS keeps the NTFS specs closed. Plus, perfect support is next to impossible, as NTFS lacks a few features every UNIX filesystem has. Anyway, it _is_ possible to read and even write NTFS partitions from Linux (using Captive, ParagonNTFS, or the 2.6.15 builtin NTFS driver). Problem is, those are only convenience hacks, native NTFS support is completely uninteresting, as NTFS doesn't even come close to any Linux/ UNIX FS since EXT3 (yep, check some benchmarks - NTFS is by far the slowest and crappiest 'real' filesystem). And Reiser4 is pretty much ready, some distros use it as default, and it's a completely different animal. Probably the most innovative, fastest and overall advanced filesystem ever created...

2) .NET 2? You mean VisualStudio I assume, as Mono uses the same API...?

3) I've never seen an OS as inconsistent as Windows. Don't try to tell me that iTunes side by side with Trillian looks even remotely consistent... And really, I don't understand your other issues, using Linux for years now - GTK and KDE applications side by side every day. It is true, however, that KDE did a much better job integrating non-KDE applications, so if you use anything else, your claims might be valid.

4) That's BS, and whoever gave you that info knows next to nothing. I had three soundcards working at the same time (onboard, Audigy2, Terratec EWX). The mouse should have worked had you used /dev/input/event0 and X.org's evdev driver instead. /dev/input/mouse is a PS/2 mouse, and the PS/2 standard has only a single wheel. The keyboard and ASIO issues are pretty easy to fix as well...

5) Don't know about AIM, but Kopete suits my needs just fine. I don't know what you expect from an IM client, though. Photoshop is crap, Gimp is crap, maybe Photoshop is better crap. There are other alternatives for Linux, however (most people allways suggest Gimp as a PS-replacement and don't even know there are alternatives). But it's also perfectly possible to use Photoshop on Linux, with native performance (but faster disk access), using cxoffice. amaroK beats Winamp by a large margin IMHO, but it's a completely different beast. If you want a skinnable interface and other eyecandy/ toys instead of a great collection manager, iPod and iRiver integration, CD burning, cover and lyrics downloader, Wikipedia support, scripting etc... And Notebook is a joke. Of course it's more simplistic, it has no features _at all_. vim or Emacs are editors for coders (some guys prefer to call Emacs an operating system). I prefer KWrite for easy tasks and Kate for coding, though.

6) Many Linux applications are frontends for command line applications. So what? This is, in fact superior, as it allows some really great tweaks impossible on Windows. And it makes the whole OS more modular and easier to modify, as well as easier to debug. But I have to admit, I don't really get your point...

[dauma]

Sorry if this thread is useless to you but I have to say yet again I'm so pleased with Linux. I just downloaded almost 400 upgrades (yeah it's been a while) in less than 6 minutes. Upgrading the whole computer at once rocks so much

I think u're office worker ;)

Well sir, this IS trolling. If you do not have anything useful to add to this thread, then move on to a forum of other non-Linux loving people.

Fortunately, most of the members who use this forum are mature, thoughtful people. If you fit in, then fine. If not, keep on moving. :yes:

Barney

Sorry, did u tell smth usefull? ;)

[markwolfe Veteran]

Hey linked, quite a few misconceptions there:

<snip>

In linked's defense, some of the points he raised (the 'preference' items, like #5) are valid reasons to like or not like an OS.

There are things I don't like about Windows that would sound very similar to his points (my Canon IX-4015 scanner is not supported hardware in Windows any more, etc.). These are among the reasons that I prefer Linux to Windows, and are valid reasons for me, even if they don't apply to the computing population-at-large.

Sorry, did u tell smth usefull? ;)

Sorry, did you have a point?

[ehlo]

I love linux :D

Now that my web site is hosted on Linux (and not Windows) that is on less thing I need Windows for.

I still need certain things to develop before I can fully move to Linux :(

One thing that does annoy me (this happens on Fedora and Ubuntu, don't know about other distributions) is dependency's. Sometimes I have tried to uninstall a desktop tool that I know isn't used by anything and it will say the whole X system has to be removed.

On Ubuntu I some test command line things. When I went to uninstall them it told me it would have to remove ubuntu-base as well :pinch:

[LaNcom]

Hey Mark!

Well, of course, all issues linked raised would be valid, if they were actually true. That's what I wanted to show. I don't say it's linked's fault - it most probably isn't, he just tried to read up on stuff and asked other guys and got wrong infos. And he bases his opinion on quite a few wrong informations, and a few valid ones (even though he didn't even mention some of them). What I say is not targeted at you personally, so no offense - it's a problem with many guys on many Linux forums all over the web. In fact, you do the stuff I'll mention below right, that's why you are/ were a great mod.

I'll try to give an example: One of the most common problems I see every day is, if someone asks if Photoshop works on Linux, most people jump in and suggest Gimp - in a way that leads to the assumption that Gimp would be the only way to go. But Gimp is no Photoshop replacement, or more precisely, not yet. It misses lots of functions (CMYK & HDR, just to name two common problems), the performance isn't that great, and the interface and workflow are really bad. As soon as the guy mentions that Gimp doesn't do it for him, he either gets flamed, the issue gets dismissed, or he's told to give up - not always, but it's common. I had the exact same problem a few years ago, when I tried to switch my company to Linux (we did webdesign and webserver applications back then). I checked the net, tried Gimp, asked a few people, tried Gimp again, but it didn't help. Gimp was not what we needed. Switching to Linux and the Gimp was too expensive, as we would have lost productivity. It took me more than a month, browsing lots of obscure websites, checking many Windows applications with Wine, until I finally found two possible replacements to evaluate: Cinepaint, Photogenics (both for Linux) and Newtek Aura via Wine. Cinepaint wasn't that stable back then, Photogenics didn't even run, and Aura had a very different workflow (compared to Photoshop) - but after a month of evaluating Aura (on Windows), my lead designer fell in love, and we were good to make the switch. Pure luck, really...

But you can't expect anyone who's interested in Linux to scan the web several hours each day for more than a month to find replacements for Windows applications, dismissing everything he was told on Linux forums (use Gimp, it's as good as Photoshop, it's the only way to go, yadda yadda...). Especially home users. So, if someone asks for Photoshop on Linux, why not simply tell him that Photoshop _does_ work perfectly, all he needs is cxoffice, which is quite cheap at $80 (compared to a Windows license, let alone a Photoshop license)? Because that's the only true and helpfull answer. Nobody cares if it's Photoshop _for_ Linux, all he wants is Photoshop _on_ Linux, hassle free and with the same performance as on Windows.

If the guy gets flamed, or gets completely wrong/ unrelated answers (no Photoshop, or, like linked said, he was told he needs to disable his onboard soundchip to use his Extigy), he'll get a wrong/ bad impression, goes back to Windows, and will tell his friends that he KNOWS Linux sucks, because Linux-users told him. He spreads BS, not even knowing it is BS!

The valid point is that we, as a community (if we consider ourselves part of a 'Linux community'), need to help potential switchers by being objective and informed, don't dismiss valid issues raised, and don't try to persuade people. It's OK to give personal opinions, but a simple question should lead to a simple answer. Don't say something doesn't work if you're not certain. Don't tell people that ask for specific feature/ application X to use (almost) completely unrelated feature/ application Y instead.

Get my point?

[Kreuger]

That's why someone needs to compile a new list of alternatives on Linux. I started one last week but it would take so many people to help out with it because there are so many differnet programs that not everyone uses. Should we start a thread similar to the free alternatives in Windows but for Linux programs instead and everyone can suggest a program to be added as seen fit mods can do so? I think it would help a lot. If you don't understand what I mean, it'd be the same as the Free Linux Games thread pinned at the top but with categories for each type of application; chat, office suites, etc.

Edit: I have started a list with Distros and Window Managers and will attach to this post (hopefully). It is just a short list to get started. I will (and others too) can add programs/distros etc

Official_Linux_Applications.doc

Edited January 9, 2006 by Kreuger

[markwolfe Veteran]

^^ What is this strange "dot Dee Oh Cee" format that you attached? :shifty:

[Kreuger]

Haha the forum wouldn't allow .abw :( which is what I use for all my text files..I like Abiword :)

[Knight']

GNU/Linux to me (like the BSD's) is great for many, many things, vastly superior to all other commercial OS's, but one thing it's not is a desktop OS for general life (Music/Office/Calendar/E-mail/Chatting). Of course, you can dispute this, but IMO Mac OSX reigns here ;-)

[Prosidius]

GNU/Linux to me (like the BSD's) is great for many, many things, vastly superior to all other commercial OS's, but one thing it's not is a desktop OS for general life (Music/Office/Calendar/E-mail/Chatting). Of course, you can dispute this, but IMO Mac OSX reigns here ;-)

Mac OSX does a pretty damn good job at making the Unix envirement easy. With OSX you get the best of both worlds. The ease of use of Windows with the security & stability of Unix/BSD.