Why Linux is so far behind...

[fudgetunnel]

So microsoft could put instructions on their site telling you exactly what sites you can download photoshop for free from and as long as they put a little disclaimer saying "Don't download this unless you're country doesn't care" it would be OK?

I'm only messing around, I'm being a ****** on purpose. But why couldn't they have an option during installation to install "Propriety codecs" or "Copyright codecs" or whatever and make you accept a disclaimer? I'm pretty sure everybody lies, or is unaware of the law's stand of it, when they download patented codecs anyway.

Sure, they could. They won't, but they could. They want to play nice with other software companies. Same with most Linux distros...they want to play nice and not be liable.

[mitch00]

... just because it is more difficult then Windows...

Now where in the world would you get an idea like that? Apt-get is harder then windows hmm? Here's an example:

Windows Installing Audacity:

-Go to sourceforge.net

-Search and find Audacity

-Click download

-Choose best mirror (what type of average joe knows what mirror is best for him/her?)

-Wait for page to refresh and automatically start download

Wow... thats 4.5 steps (last one is automatic so I count it as a half)... here's Linux:

sudo apt-get install audacity

Hmm... that was hard eh?

This is one of the biggest misconceptions around and it really bugs me, Linux is not, repeat not harder then Windows. Different? Yes. Harder? No.

All in my humble opinion of course Mr. Moderator Sir. :shiftyninja:

p.s. I picked Audacity because it was the first program that came to mind when thinking of an app available easily on both platforms.

[seta-san]

i'm going to keep this short

i think that linux will never catch up with windows because it's so open. The open nature of linux throws out any chance of having a standard environment for people to work in. My parents freak out when the location of internet explorer moves on the desktop, just imagine if they were thrown into a different desktop environment! Linux distros are a vast collection of unrelated projects expected to work together and often beta quality. Honestly it's a miracle that it works at all. A simple version change can cause HUGE dependancy issues. This doesn't happen on the windows/mac systems. If the linux people like the openness of their systems they gotta realize and be satisfied with the fact that it will never be important on the desktop in the next 30 years and probably longer. None of this is to diminish it's usefulness as TCP/IP based server for the internet which is it's primary function now.

[CaKeY]

I'm glad Linux isnt made for your parents.

[PrimoTurbo]

Now where in the world would you get an idea like that? Apt-get is harder then windows hmm? Here's an example:

Windows Installing Audacity:

-Go to sourceforge.net

-Search and find Audacity

-Click download

-Choose best mirror (what type of average joe knows what mirror is best for him/her?)

-Wait for page to refresh and automatically start download

Wow... thats 4.5 steps (last one is automatic so I count it as a half)... here's Linux:

sudo apt-get install audacity

Hmm... that was hard eh?

This is one of the biggest misconceptions around and it really bugs me, Linux is not, repeat not harder then Windows. Different? Yes. Harder? No.

All in my humble opinion of course Mr. Moderator Sir. :shiftyninja:

p.s. I picked Audacity because it was the first program that came to mind when thinking of an app available easily on both platforms.

sudo apt-get install audacity, great except it will install the one in your repos and not the latest release. You have limited choice, in ubuntu 5.10 it's a pain in the ass to get firefox 1.5.1, the latest release! There are also a lot of software which you simply can't apt-get and you need to add dependencies and such.

On windows you can download whatever u want, any version, beta or alpha. It doesn't matter all you do is download an .exe, double click it, next, next, finished.

For example: Fire up firefox on a newly installed Windows Machine and one on A newly installed Ubuntu machine. (You will feel the difference.)

Also the window redrawing is sluggish in the feel on linux.

Spot on, Linux people have always told me that Linux is faster and ignored when I talked about sluggish performance, for me it?s so noticeable. I haven?t been able to find any solution, Linux used less ram and had less cpu activity and still windows drawing and resizing was sluggish as hell. I?ve tried every major desktop environment and over 20 distros and the exact same issue with all the 10 or 12 computer I?ve used Linux on.

Also I've noticed lot's of stability issues under GNOME and the fact that no matter what you do you can't get fonts to look like windows. At least not 100%, trust me I tried.

I think the biggest problem with Linux is limited software calibration, people code different segments of the operating system and then piece it together. This is why the boot time is so slow.

[Rob2687]

The Ubuntu Wiki tells you how to install Firefox 1.5.0.1 in Breezy. All it is, is just copying and pasteing a few lines.

I've found, that using the optimized kernels really improve overall performance. Especially when multitasking on my crappy old laptop. Your average joe probably won't be compiling vanilla kernels with the patches and what not though...oh well.

I've noticed that the UI it is kinda sluggish on my older machines. I don't really know why that is.... some people have said it's because of the poor drivers which don't utilize 2D graphics on video cards properly or something. I guess it probably because most of the coders behind these things don't have the resources of a multi-billion dollar corporation.

Gotta remember what someone posted earlier though. Linux is not Windows! I think some people are so used to Windows or Mac OS that when they try something else, they expect it to behave the same. When it doesn't the little things tend to stick out more and seem like an annoyance.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Rob2687

[foxconn287]

I'm glad Linux isnt made for your parents.

Then good luck trying to 'capture' the desktop market :laugh:

Another reason why Linux won't spread - annoying fanboys like CaKeY

[PrimoTurbo]

I use this forum, Automatix is a life saver but still not enough. We already had server issues and a lot of mess to deal with.

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=100

Still too much work and the older firefox doesn't get removed and there is a problem with moving extentions.

[CaKeY]

Then good luck trying to 'capture' the desktop market :laugh:

Another reason why Linux won't spread - annoying fanboys like CaKeY

I dont care about market share. I dont think Linux cares either.

[Chipsk]

As I notice that alot of you listed some of the big problems with Linux is it's hardware support, software support, and it's speed, and it's ease of use.

Of course Linux isn't Windows we all know that but the average n00bs won't know.

I've tried over 6 diffrent versions of Linux and atleast one version of BSD. And Linux has always had it's bugs and problems.

Yeah the Wireless support is crap and I think some of us need to demand these software developers who make the drivers make some for Linux or if were really that desperate to make our own. That's what Open Source is basically. If we build our own drivers for wireless support we'll only be able to use our own and not worry about the problems of theirs.

Linux is not faster nor better than Windows mostly cause one is being built in secret and is being pasted together by a bunch of evil monkeys. Linux is being built in the open for everyone to see and is being pasted togheter by a bunch of young idiotic developers in the search for freedom.

Now I personally say Their should be only one user enviorment for linux and that be KDE but I think it should be able to be able to give you a variety to choose from in the installer or even from a website to customize Linux to your likings witch this would bring out much more ease ofuse to New and Old Linux users alike instead of limiting us down to KDE and Gnome (Sadly gnome has to be the ugliest Desktop GUI I've seen. Worse than Windows 95 literally.)

Now if programs like the GIMP and GAIM were built more on simplicticy and ease of use than just to the lead developers standards you'd find GIMP would be a much better competitor to Adobe Photoshop and and GAIM would be a better comparisson to things like Trillian and such.

Now the command line is always going to be with Linux wheather some of us like it or not but it's been the standard for building and installing programs on Linux. It hasn't been till as of recent that Linux has been able to make running and installing programs through .RPM's easier and faster than using the command line.

This is just my 2 cents being thrown in I'm not wanting to flame or anything I've used Linux and found the best one to use is Suse Linux.

[zivan56]

Most complaints about drivers are quite invalid. If you installed Windows and there were no drivers available for your device, who would you blame? Hardware companies dont even want to release the specs in order to allow someone who wants to to develop drivers for a device.

[seta-san]

it's not a hardware developers obligation to release specs. there are plenty of trade secrets they need to protect and releasing those specs is the same as releasing trade secrets. There also isn't a great urgancy for people making things like tv cards to release drivers for a platform that A)largely doesn't use such as device B)that has such a small user base it's pointless

it might not be linux's fault but it's a valid to justify not using linux

[Sn4k36]

anyways here's the standards for KDE: http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/

[zivan56]

Actually Linux has widespread use in HTPC applications, and it supports most TV Tuners quite well. TiVo is a great example of this. To re-interate your last point in another valid way:

it might not be Windows's fault but it's a valid to justify not using Windows.

[matt74441]

^ Ya, isn't it MythTV or something that is the XP Media Centre equivalent?

[seta-san]

i'm not sure what your arguement is, the tv-card was just an example. if an OS doesn't the hardware you need to use that OS is irrelavent. Almost all hardware supports windows so it's probably the most relavent OS on the planet.

Actually Linux has widespread use in HTPC applications, and it supports most TV Tuners quite well. TiVo is a great example of this. To re-interate your last point in another valid way:

it might not be Windows's fault but it's a valid to justify not using Windows.

[Barney T. Administrators]

Linux is not faster nor better than Windows mostly cause one is being built in secret and is being pasted together by a bunch of evil monkeys. Linux is being built in the open for everyone to see and is being pasted togheter by a bunch of young idiotic developers in the search for freedom.

Brilliant :wacko:

Barney

[kyro]

anyone who starts a thread saying how he/she hates linux, infact loves linux and wants it to improve more for his/her usage,

i hear you, i hear you. it has came a long way baby and still a long way to go, just keep the good word around and keep faith. :) help the developers by testing and reporting, developers love and feed on interactions from users (not primarily money as is case with some other os).

[Aaron Veteran]

Now where in the world would you get an idea like that? Apt-get is harder then windows hmm? Here's an example:

Windows Installing Audacity:

-Go to sourceforge.net

-Search and find Audacity

-Click download

-Choose best mirror (what type of average joe knows what mirror is best for him/her?)

-Wait for page to refresh and automatically start download

Wow... thats 4.5 steps (last one is automatic so I count it as a half)... here's Linux:

sudo apt-get install audacity

Hmm... that was hard eh?

This is one of the biggest misconceptions around and it really bugs me, Linux is not, repeat not harder then Windows. Different? Yes. Harder? No.

All in my humble opinion of course Mr. Moderator Sir. :shiftyninja:

p.s. I picked Audacity because it was the first program that came to mind when thinking of an app available easily on both platforms.

To clarify, "it" being harder was not installing apps, but rather using the system in general (i.e. few wizards to walk you through tasks). I love apt-get and the concept of desktop wide upgrading (apt-get upgrade).

[XerXis]

First, apt-get using ubuntus repos has never ever failed me.

Secondly, just because it is more difficult then Windows, why is that a reason it can't be an everyday system? We need to all stop thinking in a "one way" paradigm as we are used to doing (Windows only).

'cause a fair amount of computer users are elderly people who don't want to call their 10 year old grandson every week to install some software for them which makes them look like stupid old people. That's the reality, no paradigm.

Edited February 22, 2006 by XerXis

[ichi]

Read the link posted by fubz on page 2.

Now I personally say Their should be only one user enviorment for linux and that be KDE

KDE has a specific purpose: developing a GUI that is comfortable for those that like the Windows GUI. What makes you think that every linux user (or even a major part) would want it as standard linux desktop?

The day you start imposing that kind of things on linux users, you'll be changing linux into something it's not mean to be.

but I think it should be able to be able to give you a variety to choose from in the installer or even from a website to customize Linux to your likings

It works that way already.

Now if programs like the GIMP and GAIM were built more on simplicticy and ease of use than just to the lead developers standards you'd find GIMP would be a much better competitor to Adobe Photoshop and and GAIM would be a better comparisson to things like Trillian and such.

GIMP and GAIM devs don't seem to agree with you when it comes to what constitutes simplicity and ease of use.

[Aaron Veteran]

'cause a fair amount of computer users are elderly people who don't want to call their 10 year old grandson every week to install some software for them which makes them look like stupid old people. That's the reality, no paradigm.

No you missed my point entirely. Linux never has to be for the elderly or non-tech savvy. Why not have different levels of computing tools? Why homogenize computing to the lowest denominator? We can use Linux, they can use Windows, why do they all need to be on teh same level of ease of use?

[XerXis]

No you missed my point entirely. Linux never has to be for the elderly or non-tech savvy. Why not have different levels of computing tools? Why homogenize computing to the lowest denominator? We can use Linux, they can use Windows, why do they all need to be on teh same level of ease of use?

oh ok, got it wrong then, this offcourse means you assume that linux will never hold the desktop market. a point of view that i believe is the correct one.

[markwolfe Veteran]

oh ok, got it wrong then, this offcourse means you assume that linux will never hold the desktop market. a point of view that i believe is the correct one.

Linux never had that goal. It was started as a hobby project. However, a few corporations (Novell, Red Hat, Linspire, etc.) have a marketshare goal. Red Hat seems to be focused more on the server market. Novell too, but with more desktop exploration.

There was a link earlier in the thread that explained a bit about this, and it made some good points regarding marketshare.

EDIT:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

[Aaron Veteran]

oh ok, got it wrong then, this offcourse means you assume that linux will never hold the desktop market. a point of view that i believe is the correct one.

Right, nor should it ever try to be. Different levels of tools for different levels of computing.