Is there such thing as a Universal file system?

By raid517
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Grand Master

raid517

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Is there any such thing as a universal file system that is accessible under both Windows and Linux and which has support for large files and long file names the same was NTFS, Reiserfs, EXT3 and so on have?

I would love to format my file storage drive with a file system like this that both Windows and Linux can use.

I was just wondering if there might be a project somewhere, or a file system that could be bought to be used for this purpose?

It would probably make quite a lot of money if there was something like this.

GJ

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advancedboy

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  raid517 said:

Is there any such thing as a universal file system that is accessible under both Windows and Linux and which has support for large files and long file names the same was NTFS, Reiserfs, EXT3 and so on have?

I would love to format my file storage drive with a file system like this that both Windows and Linux can use.

I was just wondering if there might be a project somewhere, or a file system that could be bought to be used for this purpose?

It would probably make quite a lot of money if there was something like this.

GJ

Both Linux and Windows can read/write FAT32. I use it myself for storage between WinXP and Kubuntu

Grand Master

raid517

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Yes I do, and file names longer than 255 chars - just as I said NTFS, EXT3 and all the more modern file systems can do.

I was rather hoping someone wouldn't mention FAT32, but perhaps I didn't make it clear enough about what I was looking for?

GJ

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advancedboy

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http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/ext2ifs.htm < can read linux filesystems, and links to them in My Computer. Backup your data though... always a good idea. Also, note it doesn't mount for you, read the mount.txt document on how to mount (takes some trial and error, so if you mistakingly mount the wrong drive, just "mount /umount driveletter:" and try again with a different 0/x combination)

Linux can READ NTFS, but not write NTFS, so if its a really large file, boot linux, and drag it over, then when you open windows, just, mount / and copy it over again

I wouldn't try writing to / using extifs though.

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quigley0

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  raid517 said:

Yes I do, and file names longer than 255 chars - just as I said NTFS, EXT3 and all the more modern file systems can do.

I was rather hoping someone wouldn't mention FAT32, but perhaps I didn't make it clear enough about what I was looking for?

GJ

Hmm, I am confused. I wasn't aware that NTFS supported more than 255 char for a filename. It does support something ridiculous in the exabibytes for file size.

Grand Master

Mouldy Punk

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  advancedboy said:

http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/ext2ifs.htm < can read linux filesystems, and links to them in My Computer. Backup your data though... always a good idea. Also, note it doesn't mount for you, read the mount.txt document on how to mount (takes some trial and error, so if you mistakingly mount the wrong drive, just "mount /umount driveletter:" and try again with a different 0/x combination)

Linux can READ NTFS, but not write NTFS, so if its a really large file, boot linux, and drag it over, then when you open windows, just, mount / and copy it over again

I wouldn't try writing to / using extifs though.

I use a similar thing (link) It works very well, can write to ext partitions aswell, flawlessly in my experience. I'd highly recommend it.

@thread starter: You could just do what I do, install this in windows and it'll use ext partitions fine. I'm not sure what file permissions files get when you write to an ext partition, but that's easily changed from linux anyway.

Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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If it isn't a local filesystem, and you have a fast local netowork connection, you can set up a simple fileserver - then you can use Reiser/ext3/whatever on it and Windows and Linux can read/write to it natively without those limits.

Grand Master

raid517

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Well there is the possibility that I could buy a network attached storage device too. (Like a Wifi hard drive). But that is all money that I would rather not spend.

I only have one computer ATM and that is what I am limiting myself to.

As for the various file system drivers, I have tried most of them and they all tend to end up corrupting the file system. (Particularly when transferring large files.

What I was looking for was a single ubiquitous file system that has equal support and it equally effective in both Windows and Linux. (Obviously I'm not looking to install an OS on it - just to store stuff - music mainly).

As for file name limitations, all I know is I listen to lots of very rare music by a lot of non mainstream artists who tend to release their music on file trading networks (which seems to be a legitimate use of Peer 2 Peer technology that organisations like the RIAA would like us to live without). In any case many of these files tend to pass through many hands before reaching me and in the process are often renamed. (Sometimes with ridiculously long file names). The thing I have noticed is that NTFS/Reiserfs/EXT3 have never ever as far as I'm aware had any problem with this, whereas FAT32 often bitches bitterly about it. So obviously there is some kind of limit going on there that isn't an issue with these other file systems. I would also like large file support (above 4GB for ripping DVD's and stuff).

But I don't want to confuse you guys. As I said, I just wondered if anyone was aware of a project to create a genuinely ubiquitous file system that was equally accessible under both windows and Linux and which retained all of the best features of the more modern file systems discussed above.

I think everyone here would be quite pleased if there was such a thing.

GJ

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mitch00

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Indeed we would, but for now I suggest Fat32 for your music files, and as for ripping dvds... Well... No great answer for that right now except do the ripping on the platform you're most likeley to be doing the viewing/editing on heheh. Or as markjensen suggested, a simple remote drive would be good, a PII 200mhz would do it, set up samba and place in a couple of 30gb drives (might have trouble with anything over 32GB drives) - that would cost maybe ~70$USD?

Grand Master

raid517

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Well yes these were always possible solutions that I was aware of. But none quite do everything I want. With a network drive the issue is speed (and $70 is still an expense if you don't need to spend it). With the various Windows file system drivers, they often lead to file corruption, or don't support the file system I use, or are very picky to work with. FAT32 is ancient, decrepit, limited and insecure.

Which is why the question is and was is there a project out there anywhere to create a genuinely ubiquitous file system?

It's not about how I can write files from Windows to Linux or whatever, as I more or less know what is and is not possible - its about asking if there is a project to create a file system of this type?

GJ

Grand Master

Brian M. Veteran

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isnt is about time that people DO dual boot with linux, and start supporting them...

because i wouldnt worry about getting ext support on windows if i wasnt going to continue using windows...

if that makes sense - so there wouldnt be a problem for microsoft if they supported them (even if they made it so the OS'es couldnt boot from it), they need to accept that people do dual boot with linux, and if linux can support microsoft (on suse, i can even access my windows network, but it dont work the other way), microsoft should at least put up with linux

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Unholy Moley!

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What about the Mac file system HFS? I know there is software for windows that allows windows to read HFS drives and it is almost definately the same for linux. It's worth looking into.

And NTFS can be written to in Linux using something called captive-ntfs. I don't know how reliable it is, but that's another lead you can follow.

Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

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  ichi said:
What kind of project should that be? All linux filesystems are open and therefore any of them could be obiquitous, but MS refuses to support them.

What do you mean Microsoft "refuses to support them."

Windows has an Installable File System architecture and can support any filesystem that you write a proper driver for. That's how the Ext2/3 driver above works.

Are you asking why Microsoft doesn't write their own Ext2/3 driver or include one in every Windows installation? Why would they is a better question. If they were going to include other IFS drivers, why happen to pick the one you want? What about Reiser, UFS, JFS, and the dozens or hundreds of other random filesystems that only a handful of people will ever want to use with Windows.

No, this has nothing to do with Microsoft refusing anything. Unless of course you're demanding that NTFS be open-sourced or licensed for free. But I don't see that happening anytime soon, for some fairly obvious reasons.

If you want to access a Linux partition from Windows, use one of the available IFS drivers. If you're not happy with those, at least one is probably open-source, so fix it yourself.

Grand Master

ichi

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  Brandon Live said:

What do you mean Microsoft "refuses to support them."

Windows has an Installable File System architecture and can support any filesystem that you write a proper driver for. That's how the Ext2/3 driver above works.

Are you asking why Microsoft doesn't write their own Ext2/3 driver or include one in every Windows installation? Why would they is a better question. If they were going to include other IFS drivers, why happen to pick the one you want? What about Reiser, UFS, JFS, and the dozens or hundreds of other random filesystems that only a handful of people will ever want to use with Windows.

No, this has nothing to do with Microsoft refusing anything. Unless of course you're demanding that NTFS be open-sourced or licensed for free. But I don't see that happening anytime soon, for some fairly obvious reasons.

If you want to access a Linux partition from Windows, use one of the available IFS drivers. If you're not happy with those, at least one is probably open-source, so fix it yourself.

Refusing as in:

Q: Will you implement support for any of those FS?

A: No.

Should they include a driver? Seeing it from their POV probably not, but still the only thing stopping them from doing so is some hours of work.

Grand Master

markwolfe Veteran

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  Brandon Live said:
Are you asking why Microsoft doesn't write their own Ext2/3 driver or include one in every Windows installation? Why would they is a better question.
Agreed. Microsoft isn't responsible for making filesystem drivers for any other system. If they provide a mechanism, that is all that really can be expected.
  ichi said:
Should they include a driver? Seeing it from their POV probably not, but still the only thing stopping them from doing so is some hours of work.
It is hours of work, plus testing that are not their reponsibility. It would be nice if they published some information on NTFS that would make reverse-engineering a bit easier, but they are under no obligation for this. The mere threat of possible litigation makes the likes of Red Hat and Novell shrink from including NTFS read support in their kernels. (plus, for Linux-only sytems, NTFS read/write is completely unnecessary, anyhow).
Grand Master

raid517

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Are you asking why Microsoft doesn't write their own Ext2/3 driver or include one in every Windows installation?

No I'm not asking that. honestly what is wrong with the question I asked? Didn't I make it clear enough?

I know you guys know what a file system is so I don't understand why you don't seem to get what is being asked.

The question I asked is, is there a project anywhere that has or is attempting to create an *entirely new file system* that is not NTFS, is not EXT3, Reiserfs/XFS etc and which has nothing directly to do with MS or Linux at all - and which has (or is) being designed with the idea of offering equal support in both Linux and Windows?

I don't know how much clearer it is possible for me to be.

  Quote
so fix it yourself.

Yeah well just give me 5 or 6 years or so to learn about how to program an effective and flaw free driver for one of the existing Linux file systems and then sprinkle on a little monkey dust magic that will allow me to do something that no one else (regardless of how many vastly more skilled programmers than me there are out there) has been able to achieve to date - and then voila, everyone's problems will be solved. Except that is that they won't, because the question I asked still won't have been answered.

GJ

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