Opinions on rap music?

[Trong]

Okay, This topic's pretty old but whatever.

I love metal and that might put me in a biased situation but rap isn't as great as it's hyped up to be.

Lyrics are fine but anyone can come up with lyrics without that much work. Going to play a guitar with like 15 notes a second takes much more work to learn and play consistantly. Writing some words and playing around with a sound effects machine IMO does not take as much talent.

Don't want to start a flamathon. Thank you. :)

EDIT: Analogy

Just so I don't seem completly against rap, I liked Public Enemy.

OLD RAP - NEW BAD RAP

METAL - NEW NONGUITAR ROCK / NU METAL

Is it just me or is there a trend in people trying to get rich by doing their jobs poorly?

Edited October 2, 2006 by Trong

[vincent]

I should have been more select with my choice of words, as I now realize a couple does allude to two... I meant more like the next five years or so. I say this because it is so, so commercial right now, I mean when it makes it's way to a Pepto Bismal commercial, you know it is a sad state of affairs. If this continues, along with the majority of the music being made equals crap, there is not much hope left for it to ever make itself back to what it should be.

And also, for the record, I believe the true beginning of the end was Biggie.

It was not so much his fault as it was Puffy's, but it was pretty much then that the turn towards materialism and violence really started overriding everything else, and the "pop" sound really started coming into the mix. Up until this point, everything was still being made with some integrity. Hell, some of the tracks on the first Biggie album where as Hip Hop as you can get, but the element of making a commercial sounding record was already in there. Once a song like "Get Money" came out, that was pretty much the end of it all, then the switch began. I would say Puffy had a huge hand in making it truly commercial and crap.

I personally think the heyday of Hip Hop was the late 80's to early 90's, what I, along with others, refer to as the "Golden Years."

Around 95-96, is when it started going downhill. Sure, some good stuff still came out during those years, but most of it was "All About The Benjamins Baby."

In any art form, once you start worrying about the money and how well it will sell, you have destroyed the creative process right then and there. If you create a work of art with how well it will sell in the back of your mind, you instantly destroyed any genuine emotion that might have been put behind it. Sure, once again, there are exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, if you are not doing it for the love of it all, you are just going through the motions. Any art form would suffer greatly from this approach, which many art forms, right alongside Hip Hop, currently are proving this fact.

Again, there are still plenty of real people out there these days, it is just the majority of music listeners will never hear them unless they search for them. Keep in mind when I grew up listening to music, even when I was in college, there was not the internet as there is today. It was there, but only for a few. I did not even have an email address in college, to put it into perspective. As a result, It was a much more hands on approach to it all, and artists had a chance to linger around for awhile just based on word of mouth. Nowadays, we live in such an instant information type of set up, that things come and go so quickly it is very easy for a real artist to get lost in the mix and overlooked.

Back when I listened to Hip Hop, To find the latest and greatest artist, usually meant taking a trip to a record store. That, or listening to college radio, which I did plenty of and since I lived in NJ and went to school in NYC, I was lucky enough to experience WKCR with Stretch Armstrong and Bobbitto. They kept it going as long as they could with real Hip Hop. People are still doing the same thing nowadays, but with so much competition and so many different outlets, in winds up being much, much harder for a new or underground artist to actually make it, when you think it would be the exact opposite, as they are reaching far more people with the Internet then without it. It really is a very strange phenomenon.

(Y)

Yes, the 80's- and 90's everything went down hill when Biggie died, Puffy took over and Cash Money came out. there isn't any such thing as hiphop anymore.

[crimsonhead]

It has it's place, just like every other genre. (except nu-metal and emo) :D

[Trong]

It has it's place, just like every other genre. (except nu-metal and emo) :D

(Y)

Where has the rock gone? I loved the Anthrax/Public Enemy song, Bring The Noise.

[Shuu]

don't forget that there is more to rap than what you hear on mtv or mtv2 or fuse or the radio.

like 90% of metalheads are going to say they don't like rap because of the 'bitches & hoes & bling bling'. walk up to anybody that's not into metal & ask them about it. they'll say something like "oh, that's that devil music that talks about stabbing people in the face & stomping on their guts." then you're standing there going 'wtf..no it's not.'

[Bawx]

Very ignorant. Anyone can say that about any genre of music. I heard some Arabic music the other day and I didnt like it much but I never thought it was trash. The person listening to it really liked it so thats enough for me to respect that.

(Y)

[SamNeeds]

At this current moment in time, I don't like rap music at all. I like proper music, which is played on proper instruments and doesn't featured anything synthesized!

[Ben Davis]

At this current moment in time, I don't like rap music at all. I like proper music, which is played on proper instruments and doesn't featured anything synthesized!

I've actually started listening to mostly rap. I mainly listened to indie rock and stuff before. You should check out Sage Francis, Atmosphere, Jedi Mind Tricks, Brother Ali, MF Doom (dangerdoom). good stuff

http://www.last.fm/user/bendedavis

*it seems most people who don't like rap are referring to rap maybe they've heard on the radio. that stuff is crap. check out some of the artists I listed above.

Edited October 3, 2006 by Ben Davis

[Andy07]

i respect rap... some of the good rappers have amazing lyrics its a skill.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

Okay, This topic's pretty old but whatever.

I love metal and that might put me in a biased situation but rap isn't as great as it's hyped up to be.

Lyrics are fine but anyone can come up with lyrics without that much work. Going to play a guitar with like 15 notes a second takes much more work to learn and play consistantly. Writing some words and playing around with a sound effects machine IMO does not take as much talent.

Don't want to start a flamathon. Thank you. :)

EDIT: Analogy

Just so I don't seem completly against rap, I liked Public Enemy.

OLD RAP - NEW BAD RAP

METAL - NEW NONGUITAR ROCK / NU METAL

Is it just me or is there a trend in people trying to get rich by doing their jobs poorly?

While I respect your opinion, and I am not upset ar anything like that, I must say I fully disagree with it completely. A true lyricist is just as skilled as a great guitar player, it is just a different form of skill itself.

Saying anyone can write lyrics is like saying anyone can write a novel. It is just not true.

Sure, I will give it to you, if you are comparing the lyrics of a modern Rap artist, most of them are not skilled whatsoever, and perhaps anyone can write their lyrics, although even then I really do not agree. As bad as some of these people are, it is just not the truth that anyone can do it.

There are people who approach writing lyrics, just as someone would approach writing a novel or poetry. Within writing, there are many advanced forms of writing that your average person just does not know, and or would not recognize even if they knew about them.

Example. Just like the average person cannot appreciate the fact a guitar player can pull of an arpeggio no problems at all, that same person might not realize that someone wrote a verse in the form of a palindrome. I use palindrome just an example, there are countless approached for both guitar playing and lyric writing.)

My point is both lyrics and playing the guitar, or any instrument, are without a doubt both art forms, just different kinds of art with different kinds of approaches.

For the record, I grew up not only listening to both Metal and Hip Hop, but I also played both music forms as well.

In regards to Metal, I played Bass, Guitar, and Sang for countless bands since I was 12 years old.

I stopped 3 years ago and I am now 32.

Here is a metal/hardcore song that from a band I was a part of in 1998.

Not only do I sing on it (influenced heavily by Rhyming), but I also wrote all of the guitar parts for the song itself, although it is not me playing them.

Dirty Larry Hardcore Metal Example / Band Name: Elements DEC / Song Name: the Game Aint The Same

I also rhymed on my own starting at the age of 18. I stopped about two years ago officially, but this is the last track I ever recorded where I myself am rhyming (I actually have posted in here on Neowin before).

Dirty Larry Hip Hop Example /Band Name: Dirty Larry / Song Name: A Renaissance Man 2.18 MB Mp3

Now I fully admit that Yes, I am not some musical genius or prodigy at writing music. If I was, I would have been signed by now (maybe, maybe not). However I can say with 110% sincerity, that I did study both musical forms more than anything else in my lifetime. As a result, wether you feel I was good or not, I have a pretty well versed understanding of playing instruments and writing lyrics.

Again, I will not argue with you that if you are talking about most of the lyrics in rap songs nowadays, that yes, not to much skill is used these days. But there is no doubt that writing lyrics is absolutely an art form itself.

Just like you, not starting to start a flame-athon either.

I am just trying to share a little of what I have learned over the years, wether you agree or not. ;)

So to sum it up, to say writing lyrics takes no skill and anyone can do, well in my opinion, that is just a false statement.

[naap51stang]

Rap is CRAP without the C.

Music it isn't. It's just something that a bunch of thug

hoodlums came up with to con a bunch of dumb white

kids into buying, dressing, and acting like.

Hopefully it will die out, along with the thugs that make it.

:alien:

[chconline Veteran]

Come on guys, the only music that what we consider is only Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, and all the other 1337 artists. The only things that they are missing is a synthesizer, drums, and an electronic guitar. Oh yeah, and a singer :p

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

I believe rap music no longer delivers a message. And that is why these days it sucks asss.

I loved rap music back in the day. Doggy Style is one of the best rap albums of all time. Not forgetting Biggie and Tupac...Run DMC, Dre. :dj:

Rap music is too mainstream now. All you see in the videos are fake thugs singing about all the money they got, their bentleys etc, etc. btw Dead Prez - Hip Hop sums it up nicely. :laugh:

rap was good.. years and years ago, tupac, biggie, wutang, all of them had a message to send and wern't rapping about the same **** every time.

no you have 50 cent, and others who i can't keep up with, it's all the same stuff now.

Cars, Money, Hoes, Houses.. ya thanks for showing me all the things i DON'T HAVE.. I hate the baggy pants look, the puffy jackets, the bandana's, and this whole "sup guy" stuff, rap is no longer music, it's a fashion statement to prevent weaker kids from getting beaten up in high school. Some fools try to live life being a "thug" when they come from a good neighborhood.. kids these days just want rebellion from their parents, and have NO idea how hard it actually is to grow up being poor.. I hope they eventually find out that no one will ever hire a wannabe-thug in this world, just makes more job openings for me.

pick your friends wisely.

[Toology]

It has it's place, just like every other genre. (except nu-metal and emo) :D

Post of the day. :p

I really, really have a strong dislike for rap. Somone here referenced to it as "lazy music" and I can't say that I disagree. However, other genres of "music" can also likewise qualify as the same; take the growling/puking vocals in death metal for example. Why take the time to perfect your vocal abilities when you can suck all you want with heavy, screaming guitar riffs in the background and sing about the "dark" things that make you think you're a hardcore badass?

[chconline Veteran]

Post of the day. :p

I really, really have a strong dislike for rap. Somone here referenced to it as "lazy music" and I can't say that I disagree. However, other genres of "music" can also likewise qualify as the same; take the growling/puking vocals in death metal for example. Why take the time to perfect your vocal abilities when you can suck all you want with heavy, screaming guitar riffs in the background and sing about the "dark" things that make you think you're a hardcore badass?

Nu Metal != Death Metal... :p

[xxdesmus]

Neowin has proven itself incapable of carrying on a intelligent conversation about hip hop.

All I will say is this, if you know what real hip hop is you'd never say it wasn't music. If you had a clue what real hip hop was you would stop using the pathetic and ignorant argument that it's all about "money and hoes" because that is so far from the truth it's almost funny.

There is still plenty of talented artists these days.

I am done, enjoy the "music" you guys listen to... :blink: :rolleyes:

[Trong]

<SNIP>

Lol, I can't hear your tracks.

I respect your opinion fully. I don't try to force my music down people's throat, if they don't like metal, that's fine. It's a taste but to me, I just think it's more difficult to play guitar.

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about any of that new stuff but the stuff from the 80's. When they could play their instruments. Nowadays, its 5 chords real fast.

I tend to not listen to lyrics or singing also so I guess that's another thing that makes me not like rap. The guitars are all the melody I need. Beats just don't satisfy me.

Bah, my room is getting real hot cause of my computer and other people on this forum have no respect for rap. :whistle:

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

Lol, I can't hear your tracks.

I respect your opinion fully. I don't try to force my music down people's throat, if they don't like metal, that's fine. It's a taste but to me, I just think it's more difficult to play guitar.

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about any of that new stuff but the stuff from the 80's. When they could play their instruments. Nowadays, its 5 chords real fast.

I tend to not listen to lyrics or singing also so I guess that's another thing that makes me not like rap. The guitars are all the melody I need. Beats just don't satisfy me.

Bah, my room is getting real hot cause of my computer and other people on this forum have no respect for rap. :whistle:

Like I said, I respect your opinion as well. I respect anyone's opinion on anything, no matter what the subject.

I am not trying to get you to like any music that you would not like, that is just not anything I would try to do and I really did not want to come off that way if I did. When I was talking about lyrics, although yes this thread is about Rap, I was talking about all music and lyrics on a whole, not just Hip Hop.

But hey, If you are just one of those people that does not listen to lyrics, then cool. I dealth with two guiatar players for 7 years that were the same way. I was just saying I disagreed with what you said that writing lyrics does not take any talent, because it does when an individual approaches it is an artform and when they are written as such.

And I agree with you no doubt, the power chord crazed music of today does not hold a candle to the solo crazed guitar playing of the early 80's as far as talent is concerned. So actually, if one wants to say that the rappers of today do not have much talent, then I think it would be safe to say most guitar players in most popular bands that are played on the radio, if we are going to generalize an entire music genre based on what is popular, than these days most guitar players are not that talented either.

And I have no clue why you could not hear the music. It is working on my end.

I get the feeling it was you did not really want to hear the music? ;) Which of course there are no hard feelings. I just posted it to show I have both played guitar and written lyrics.

Just in case, here is the link to the hardcore song again that I sing in (I use sing loosely, as I more like rhymed/screamed) and that i wrote all of the guitar parts (which actually has no solos or anything at all, so I am sure you might consider it talentless anyway. :rofl: If it does not launch, all you have to do us just right-click the link and Download the MP3, that is of course if you want to, if not no hard feelings and I honestly could care less.

Like I said, it was not my intent to make anyone like a music they do not like to begin with. Wether people like or dislike Rap has no bearing on my life, and as I have already stated in this thread I personally do not like what most people know as Rap nowadays either. I only posted to defend the art of lyric writing in all music. :yes:

[Ben Davis]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Sd2k1RYik0Q - Atmosphere is awesome

check out this rap battle

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/W.../bctid203710905

Illmaculate and The Saurus are great

[Trong]

Hmm, the tracks open up in WMP but no sound? It just makes the bar move.

Yes, I know that writing lyrics do actually take talent. I am a person that does not have that skill, Lol. It is tough to write good lyrics. I have noticed that nowadays, most groups/artists kinda stink at producing good lyrics.

Not meaning to offend, it seems like all bands are trying to acheive the American dream. Do as little and perform as terrible as possible while still getting rich.

I think I can safely say that the music of the 80's, hip hop and metal, influenced some lazy music. :rofl:

I am so tired. I'm not going to try to argue with anyone. I remember when you and GT weren't moderators. Those were the days when I didn't post at all.

EDIT: Hahaha, I know why I can't hear it. I pulled the little bar in WMP down to the bottom when my friend was trying to stream me Boston Legal from his TV tuner. I wonder if that's legal.

[Toology]

I agree that the majority of artists (mainstream, at least) lack serious talent when it comes to being lyricists. I'm not asking that they bust out a Webster's Dictionary when they write their songs but they could definitely work on word choice and sentence structure. When I listen to the radio (which I hardly do because I'm excessively picky when it comes to music I like) I run through words and phrases in the songs that could've been swapped for much better ones. I seriously dislike artists who are repetitive in their themes and say things that are cliche. I think it does come down to trying to squeeze too many albums into too short a period of time (to make more money) and winding up with B-sides albums when if more time had elapsed a better album could've been produced. Music in general has truly turned into an industry and it's artistic roots have suffered as a result.

[xxdesmus]

^^ You want to hear a crazy song try and find "Chemical Calisthenics" by Blackalicious ... It is absolutely crazy the stuff he comes up with rhymes for. :yes:

[Ben Davis]

^^ You want to hear a crazy song try and find "Chemical Calisthenics" by Blackalicious ... It is absolutely crazy the stuff he comes up with rhymes for. :yes:

hrmm I've just got "the craft" album.

[Dejon]

^^ You want to hear a crazy song try and find "Chemical Calisthenics" by Blackalicious ... It is absolutely crazy the stuff he comes up with rhymes for. :yes:

I remember hearing that for the first time. It was mind boggling.

I can do anything

Neutron, proton,

mass defect, lyrical oxidation, yo irrelevant

Mass

spectrograph, your electron volt, atomic energy erupting

As

I get all open on betacron, gamma rays thermo cracking

Cyclotron and any and every mic

You're on trans

iridium, if you're always uranium

Molecules,

spontaneous combustion, pow

Law of de-fi-nite

pro-por-tion, gain-ing weight

I'm every element of

brown

Lead, gold, tin, iron, platinum, zinc, when I

rap you think

Iodine nitrate activate

Red geranium,

the only difference is I transmit sound

Balance was

unbalanced then you add a little talent and

Careful,

careful with those ingredients

They could explode and blow

up if you drop then

And may hit the ground

Let

it flow, yo, just let it go, get back

C-A-O-H-2 wine

water solution of calcium hydroxide

Slobbin it, C-A-O lime

will make bleach powder

Galvanic metal beats stomp out

louder

Dried ice, C-0 squared refrigerant

N-O-2 makes

you laugh, it's laughing gas used by the dentists

I

nearly added acid glue, I'm like oil of a toil, the king

of

chemicals

And the G heat gas waved all your mats

Chemical change, ice point, melt all your raps

Atomic

weight, hold shocks, when you call

Refillable gas keep

going way beyond

Biotch I'm only ill with buzzin, feel

the ambiance

A diabetic process outta calm your ass

After I warm your ass, I'll give sodium, silicate

N-O-2-S-1-O-3,

a water glass

Borax flexure full of

brimstone sulfur

Boraxic acid, hip-hop preserver

C-O-2

could never put away the fire

Style aroma is scientific;

the lyrical fuse would be connected

To teach you chemical

calisthenics

The Theory is that all matter is

composed of at least three

fundamental particles

Protons, electrons, neutrons, Protons charge is positive

By now you've guessed electrons are probably negatively

charged

Neutrons don't follow either, neutral, in the

middle, only no

apologies

Centered, unmoved by yin and

yang ideology

Neutron, bomb songs, electron fury

Cosmic musical radio-activity

Different points in joints

within infinity

Oxygen and hydrogen alive within all types

of energy

Within all types of energy

Within all types

of energy

Within all types of energy

Within all types

of energy, inside a world, inside a world

Inside a

universe, inside of me existing although I can't see it

Hydrocarbon, nitrogen cycle, ionization

Heavier

than electric motor metals that weigh over a ton

This has

been a chemist, Blackalicious creation

Clean out your desk,

put your papers away cause class in almost

done

This is chemistry plus calisthenics

I'm calcium plus

potassium, magnesium, newspaper of sodium,

sulfate

Your solvent, chloroform, remedy from the norm

glycerin,

purest form Titanium

there is no way out, when this newfy

is out

of all arms vibration, forming in a << racial epithet >>

some

bleachin' to teach ya religious is equal to pieces of

meteor

Eager to be here or is it, can see here I know all

of all

I'ma pickin' up pretty little Cindy

I'm more, I'm thinkin of more,

I'm cookin

a potion!

Now, I dare someone to come out and say, "Oh, hiphop doesn't have good lyrics, all they talk about is bling, cars, and ######".

Open your eyes.

Edited October 4, 2006 by oddity

[Ben Davis]

Diesel Power by Prodigy is great rap. Kool Keith is very good