Sound Blaster CT4830 sound quality

[Cheryl_27]

Someone gave me a Sound Blaster Live CT4830 (value model??)- a std PCI card. I currently have only the integrated audio on my Intel MB D815EEA2. The integ audio controller is "Intel 82801 AA/AB/BA/CA AC '97". But Windows System Info shows it as Intel 82801 BA/BAM AC '97.

I?m trying to find some specs on the CT4830 on Creative's site, or other. Did find the User Manual & drivers / patch, but no real specs.For purposes of recording old vinyl LPsb> & reel to reel to HDD to burn to CD or convert to mp3, is this Creative CT4830Very likely / Possibly / Not likelyb>) to have better sound quality than my integrated audio?

Or, is this sound card just a dinosaur and likely to be more trouble than it's worth?

If my integrated audio is likely better than the CT4830, then how good of results for what I'm doing could be expected using the integ audio for capture from LPs? If needed, I'd consider spending $50 (sale?) on a new sound card, but not $100 - 200.

This is understanding a clean-up program / utility will be used to remove static, pop, etc., after the albums are recorded to HDD. Using something like Nero 7 Wave Editor (I have it) or Grove Mechanic, etc.

I understand a wave editing program (logically) can't clean / repair what the sound card never transferred from the source (LP) to the HDD.

Keep in mind, for now, the main consideration is capturing analog audio from LPs & R-R.

Many thanks!

[Cheryl_27]

No one's got any info or comments on this sound card, or other useful wisdom?

[majortom1981]

I have used that card before and it is definitely better then intergrated sound. Definitely worth it to install since you got it for free.

[PricklyPoo]

Ya I have that card In my old computer, it is a lot better than integrated sound like majortom said. I would definitely use it.

[Cheryl_27]

Did a little more research. The old SB CT 4830 specs say it has (max) Analog to Digital conversion of 16 bit @ 48 KHz. Also ADC recording sampling up to 16 bit / 48 KHz.

I'm not focused solely on Creative, but comparing another current model w/ the old one, for purposes of quality of Analog to Digital capture / conversion:

1) How much more quality would you get out of a card like Creative Audigy SE (see specs below) than the old 16 bit / 48 KHz sampling rate? Is going to (any) 24 bit / 96 KHz card worth the effort for what I'm doing?

The card sells for only $30 at Fry's, which doesn't seem like much. Diamond has another similar one for same $, but may not have 24 bit recording.

2) By what % would using 24 bit / (and up to) 96 KHz sampling increase file sizes for Analog to Digital conversion?

Thanks!

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4748859?s...CH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1 Surround Sound Card Detailed Description [return to top]

Specifications:

* 24-bit Analog-to-Digital conversion of analog inputs at 96kHz sample rate

* 24-bit Digital-to-Analog conversion of digital sources at 96kHz to analog 7.1 speaker output

* 16-bit and 24-bit recording with sampling rates of 8, 11.025, 16, 22.05, 24, 32, 44.1, 48 and 96kHz

* SPDIF output up to 24-bit resolution at selectable sampling rate of 44.1, 48 or 96kHz

* 64-Voice polyphony and multi-timbral capability

* 128 GM & GS compatible instruments and 10 drum kits

* 2MB or 4MB GM SoundFont Bank included

* Line level out (Front / Side / Rear / Centre / Subwoofer) or Headphone out

* Line In / Microphone In / *Digital I/O

* Aux Audio in

* Supports SPDIF Out for Stereo Digital Speaker/ connection with Creative Digital I/O Module (sold separately)

* Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted) = 100 dB (2V)

* Frequency Response at -3 dBr = <10 Hz to 40 kHz

* Specifications are based on digital-to-analog audio playback (for example: CDDA, WAV, MP3, Dolby Digital)

Package Contents:

* Sound Blaster Audigy SE PCI card

* Quick Start Guide Leaflet

* User's Guide on CD

* Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE Drivers: Supporting Win 2K, XP and XP Professional x64

* Creative Software Suite

Requirements

* Intel? Pentium? III, Celeron 1GHz or equivalent AMD processor

* 128MB RAM for Microsoft? Windows? 2000 SP4, Windows? XP SP 1 or Windows XP? Pro x64

[Doug W]

I have a couple of CT4830s and also some opinions about drivers for the card. Over the past 3 or 4 years, I have been using the kX drivers for recording music. They only work with Creative Labs cards that use the EMU10k1 or EMU10k2 chip. Your CT4830 uses the EMU10k1 chip so it is a candidate for using the kX drivers instead of the Creative. The drivers are free and, in my humble opinion, the only choice for recording and playing back music.

The kX forum is here:

http://www.driverheaven.net/forumdisplay.p...&forumid=67

Getting Started Guide

http://kb.kxproject.lugosoft.com/guide/index.html

The default mixer setup that comes with kX can be confusing. I have found it much easier to create custom DSPs for recording, mixing, playback.

http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxtutor/quickkx.htm

You could also leave your onboard sound enabled. If nothing else, it will give you an opportuity to compare the sound of the 2 side by side.

Good luck

Edited January 27, 2007 by Doug W

[Cheryl_27]

Doug,

Wow, thanks for the info. So, you think the kx project drivers are superior to Creative's?

I'd have thought leaving the integrated sound drivers enabled would conflict w/ the sound card & drivers?

One thing about the help file - unless I'm loopy, I didn't see a separate downloadable help file. It seemed to take me to the same place / file as for the actual driver file. Or is the help file included w/ the driver download?

Have you compared any results between recording (off LP, cassette, etc) at 16 bit/48 kHz and 24 bit/ 96 kHz, all other things being equal? IOW, same turntable, cartridge, computer, (perhaps even same sound card if has capabil for 16 & 24 bit recording)? That's after you've burned them to CD either as CDA or mp3 (at a higher bitrate).

If you could get back to me, I'd appreciate it! Thanks again.

[Doug W]

So, you think the kx project drivers are superior to Creative's?

definitely

I'd have thought leaving the integrated sound drivers enabled would conflict w/ the sound card & drivers?

The drivers don't bother each other. You can have problems if the 2 sound cards end up with the same IRQ. I have an Audigy 1 and an Audigy 2 ZS in my recording computer. At one time, I had a third sound card in the computer but the computer developed some psychological problems and starting switching around IRQs between the 3 cards on every reboot so I extracted one of them.

One thing about the help file - unless I'm loopy, I didn't see a separate downloadable help file. It seemed to take me to the same place / file as for the actual driver file. Or is the help file included w/ the driver download?

The help file is included in the installation, however, this link has most of what is inclued in the help file

http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/help.php?language=en

Have you compared any results between recording (off LP, cassette, etc) at 16 bit/48 kHz and 24 bit/ 96 kHz, all other things being equal? IOW, same turntable, cartridge, computer, (perhaps even same sound card if has capabil for 16 & 24 bit recording)? That's after you've burned them to CD either as CDA or mp3 (at a higher bitrate).

I have not done any actual testing. I just like what I hear. The CT4830 is not capable of 24 bit recording. You need one of the Audigy cards for that. 24 bit recording is only possible with cards using the EMU10k2 chip (Audigy cards), and only in MME mode not ASIO. The developer is hoping to have 24 bit ASIO figured out before he runs out of steam for the project. We mostly record our own stuff - guitar, mandolin and voice using ASIO 16 / 48. I still use an older version of kX since some of the intermittent versions have some popping / clicking issues. I think that the latest 2 versions of kX have fixed the popping / clicking issues. The latest version is available in a forum thread:

3538M kX drivers

http://www.driverheaven.net/showthread.php?t=128197

ProFX plugins for 3534f and 3538L (the 3538L version works for 3538M)-Those plugins are show in the DSP example at the bottom.

http://members.home.nl/nahutec/ProFx/profx3x.htm

3534f kX drivers from TravelRec's site.

http://www.electricstart.de/

FX in uniform (another cool set of plugins available for 3534f and 3538 at same site-plugins link)

Here is an example of a customized DSP I use (The ADC,

ftp://webpages.charter.net/kx2sc/f-aux-adaptor-src2-adc.jpg

Here are some webpages I put together showing how to get 4 analog inputs out of an Audigy card using the kX drivers:

http://webpages.charter.net/drw46/kx2sc/auxsc00.html

[Doug W]

In answer to the question about 16 bit vs. 24 bit. Personally, I can't hear the difference. Some people say that can distinctly hear it and I am sure they can. Maybe being over 50, I have lost enough hearing so that it doesn't really matter.

One of the advantages of 24 bit is that you have more headroom for recording and so consequently, distortion is not as likely.

Correction of one of the URLs above since I was not able to edit that one.

Here is an example of a customized DSP I use, I think all the plugins are from the ProFX download

http://webpages.charter.net/drw46/kx2sc/f-...or-src2-adc.jpg

[Cheryl_27]

Thanks Doug,

Lot of good info - really appreciate it.

Yes, I knew the CT4830 was only good for 16 bit / 48kHz. I just asked about your experience w/ 16 bit and 24 bit bcs I read where some swear by 24 bit and others say no real difference.

I'm wondering if for purposes of recording off LPs or R-R (that's Reel to Reel, for all you young whipper snappers), and knowing that I'll be doing a good bit of noise clean up (not too much pop in my case), whether

1) After doing the cleanup w/ a wave file editor, the 24 bit recordings would be audibly different than ones at 16 bit?

2) If mp3 files would be proportionally larger by the same % as 24 bit is to 16 bit files recorded straight from the LPs. Let's assume the bitrates for mp3s are same in both cases.

That's what concerns me most - if recorded at 16 bit, how good (or dull) the songs will be after running cleanup software vs if they'd been recorded at 24 bit to begin with.

Doug, I noticed the Audigy SE card is only about $30 (25 on sale). The Audigy 4 is on sale for $70. I think the Audigy SE only has one input jack and no game port? There must be other differences too.

Could you (or someone) give me a little schoolin' on some features in the more expensive card (Audigy 4 is just an example) that I might really need for better music recording, vs one like the Audigy SE? Or, if not those specific cards, what to consider, in general? I'd really appreciate it!!

What is a "whipper snapper" anyway?!?

[Doug W]

I'm wondering if for purposes of recording off LPs or R-R (that's Reel to Reel, for all you young whipper snappers), and knowing that I'll be doing a good bit of noise clean up (not too much pop in my case), whether

1) After doing the cleanup w/ a wave file editor, the 24 bit recordings would be audibly different than ones at 16 bit?

Noise reduction is tricky. I have only had limited success with noise reduction plugins. The first time I ever used one it worked perfectly. Since then every time I have tried it, weird sonic artifacts get introduced and I end up UNDOing the noise reduction. I have had more success just trying to EQ out tape hiss.

As far as the audible difference between 24 and 16 bit, someone else should pop in here with their opinion because I don't hear it.

2) If mp3 files would be proportionally larger by the same % as 24 bit is to 16 bit files recorded straight from the LPs. Let's assume the bitrates for mp3s are same in both cases.

That's what concerns me most - if recorded at 16 bit, how good (or dull) the songs will be after running cleanup software vs if they'd been recorded at 24 bit to begin with.

Doug, I noticed the Audigy SE card is only about $30 (25 on sale). The Audigy 4 is on sale for $70. I think the Audigy SE only has one input jack and no game port? There must be other differences too.

Could you (or someone) give me a little schoolin' on some features in the more expensive card (Audigy 4 is just an example) that I might really need for better music recording, vs one like the Audigy SE? Or, if not those specific cards, what to consider, in general? I'd really appreciate it!!

As far as features of better cards, the main thing is the DAC/ADC (Digital to Audio Converter/Audio to Digital Converter). Better sound cards have better ones. Then of course there is a whole slew of gizmos and whatnots.

Here is a Website I used to look at for sound card comparisons. I don't believe that this site has been updated in a few years but there are good explanations of the audio tests. I never tried to interpret all the graphs. I would just look to see how many GOODS, EXCELLENTS or POORS a sound card had in the chart.

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/techtalk/

This is just my personal opinion, but I would say in that price range you are better off buying an Audigy 2 ZS from Ebay at the "Creative Labs Factory Store"

http://stores.ebay.com/Creative-Labs-Factory-Store

You can get one for around $40.00 US. Then install the kX drivers and you have 24 bit and the spiffy kX DSP to work with.

A step up from there would be the

audiophile 2496

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAP2496

Now a word from our commercial sponsor. Relevant though because one song was recorded by playing a tape into the computer.

My wife and I and a some other people play music and record once in a while. The song "Pretty Saro" was recorded a few years back in a studio. The guy used DATs for the recording. My wife is singing and the studio guy played his slide guitar. A couple years ago, I played our 4 track cassette player into the Audigy card and made the MP3 of Pretty Saro. The guitar tune was just me playing guitar using a Kel HM-1 Mic while my wife EQd and recorded using the Audigy again. The tune "I surrender" was recorded in our house with my wife singing and my buddy playing guitar while I recorded.

All three of these songs were recorded at 16 bit / 48 khz then converted to 16 / 44.1 before making them into MP3s.

http://www.motagator.net/bands/69/audio.php

You can find much better cards out there for recording than the Creative Labs cards but there is nothiing else to compare with the kX drivers for taking advantage of the features of these cards for recording. You should just stick your CT4830 in the computer and try it out and see how it sounds.

What is a "whipper snapper" anyway?!?

Any smart alec younger than you.

I'm wondering if for purposes of recording off LPs or R-R (that's Reel to Reel, for all you young whipper snappers), and knowing that I'll be doing a good bit of noise clean up (not too much pop in my case), whether

1) After doing the cleanup w/ a wave file editor, the 24 bit recordings would be audibly different than ones at 16 bit?

Noise reduction is tricky. I have only had limited success with noise reduction plugins. The first time I ever used one it worked perfectly. Since then every time I have tried it, weird sonic artifacts get introduced and I end up UNDOing the noise reduction. I have had more success just trying to EQ out tape hiss.

As far as the audible difference between 24 and 16 bit, someone else should pop in here with their opinion because I don't hear it.

2) If mp3 files would be proportionally larger by the same % as 24 bit is to 16 bit files recorded straight from the LPs. Let's assume the bitrates for mp3s are same in both cases.

That's what concerns me most - if recorded at 16 bit, how good (or dull) the songs will be after running cleanup software vs if they'd been recorded at 24 bit to begin with.

Doug, I noticed the Audigy SE card is only about $30 (25 on sale). The Audigy 4 is on sale for $70. I think the Audigy SE only has one input jack and no game port? There must be other differences too.

Could you (or someone) give me a little schoolin' on some features in the more expensive card (Audigy 4 is just an example) that I might really need for better music recording, vs one like the Audigy SE? Or, if not those specific cards, what to consider, in general? I'd really appreciate it!!

As far as features of better cards, the main thing is the DAC/ADC (Digital to Audio Converter/Audio to Digital Converter). Better sound cards have better ones. Then of course there is a whole slew of gizmos and whatnots.

Here is a Website I used to look at for sound card comparisons. I don't believe that this site has been updated in a few years but there are good explanations of the audio tests. I never tried to interpret all the graphs. I would just look to see how many GOODS, EXCELLENTS or POORS a sound card had in the chart.

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/techtalk/

This is just my personal opinion, but I would say in that price range you are better off buying an Audigy 2 ZS from Ebay at the "Creative Labs Factory Store"

http://stores.ebay.com/Creative-Labs-Factory-Store

You can get one for around $40.00 US. Then install the kX drivers and you have 24 bit and the spiffy kX DSP to work with.

A step up from there would be the

audiophile 2496

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOAP2496

Now a word from our commercial sponsor. Relevant though because one song was recorded by playing a tape into the computer.

My wife and I and a some other people play music and record once in a while. The song "Pretty Saro" was recorded a few years back in a studio. The guy used DATs for the recording. My wife is singing and the studio guy played his slide guitar. A couple years ago, I played our 4 track cassette player into the Audigy card and made the MP3 of Pretty Saro. The guitar tune was just me playing guitar using a Kel HM-1 Mic while my wife EQd and recorded using the Audigy again. The tune "I surrender" was recorded in our house with my wife singing and my buddy playing guitar while I recorded.

All three of these songs were recorded at 16 bit / 48 khz then converted to 16 / 44.1 before making them into MP3s.

http://www.motagator.net/bands/69/audio.php

You can find much better cards out there for recording than the Creative Labs cards but there is nothiing else to compare with the kX drivers for taking advantage of the features of these cards for recording. You should just stick your CT4830 in the computer and try it out and see how it sounds.

What is a "whipper snapper" anyway?!?

Any smart alec younger than you.

[Cheryl_27]

Doug,

So from the link you provided http://www.motagator.net/bands/69/Maybe_So...y-4_Stories.php, give me a little background on what's indicated on the page. Like what's "HS", "LS", "HD".

Are the tunes actually the mp3s you recorded / converted at home using the sound card on a PC?

That's your wife singing, eh? As Borat would say, "Very nice!" Very reminiscent of Joni Mitchell, w/ shades of Celtic, too.

Is / was this ever released commercially? I think my wife would like listening to it. If your wife looks as good as she sounds, you're a lucky man. Even if she doesn't, you may still be. ;)

About the link you gave to Ebay & Audigy 2 ZS card for $40 - that's for a refurbished one w/ 30 day warranty :( , as far as I see. It is substantially reduced from normal retail, but 30 days isn't long. Have you bought any of these type items w/ only a 30 day warr?

[Doug W]

So from the link you provided http://www.motagator.net/bands/69/Maybe_So...y-4_Stories.php, give me a little background on what's indicated on the page. Like what's "HS", "LS", "HD".

HS is a higher quality sound MP3 (higher bitrate)

LS is low quality

HD is download to your Hard Drive.

Are the tunes actually the mp3s you recorded / converted at home using the sound card on a PC?

The tune "Pretty Saro" was recorded originally in a professional studio - I sucked the cassette tape version into the computer and made an MP3 of it.

The other 2 tunes were recorded on our computer using either the Audigy 1 or Audigy 2 ZS card.

Is / was this ever released commercially? I think my wife would like listening to it. If your wife looks as good as she sounds, you're a lucky man. Even if she doesn't, you may still be. ;)

We made a 5 song CD in the past and put together a CD after that but never really got around to producing a flock of them. We lack ambition I guess. We play out maybe once a month and with all the other life type things going on, we just don't seem to have the oomph to get more CDs made. We still record a song a month and someday we'll put out our Greatest Hits CD before anyone has heard of us.

About the link you gave to Ebay & Audigy 2 ZS card for $40 - that's for a refurbished one w/ 30 day warranty :( , as far as I see. It is substantially reduced from normal retail, but 30 days isn't long. Have you bought any of these type items w/ only a 30 day warr?

I bought my Audigy 2 ZS from Ebay from the "Creative Labs Factory Store" a year or two ago and it is still working fine. I bought my Audigy 1 card from Ebay 3 or 4 years ago and that one is still going strong too.

I have often wondered what REFURBISHED could mean in terms of a sound card. I can't imagine someone hovering over a sound card with a soldering iron fixing a fried capacitor. My guess is that someone returns a sound card because they never got it working on their computer and Creative determines that it is actually fine so they just resell it.

[Cheryl_27]

Well Doug,

At least a couple of people are interested in acquiring your music. You never actually said if it was available for sale or otherwise. One guy wanted to propose to Ms. 'E', but I told him that she's already married. I looked for a way to send you a message from the Motagator site, but didn't see a way.

Also, looked more into the cards you suggested & others. Found a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio card on sale at Fry's for $40, but it apparently requires a Pent-4, so it'll have to wait.

I guess the main difference in the Audigy 2 (value) and Audigy 2 ZS is more included software and one has a midi port? I didn't see an Audigy 2 value in the Creative store on Ebay, so don't know what they'd go for.

I did a little recording back in the day...waaaayyyy back in the day. In fact, I'm not sure Mr. Peabody and Sherman's time machine had a setting for that long ago. Yep. Local rock star. Lead singer & rhythm guitar. Oh sure, the girls were all over me, but you just have to persevere. :yes:

I think the maddest my future wife ever got was in a music store when I was sitting down playing a guitar. We weren't even engaged. A fetching young lass came over and sat down on the same amp and started talking to me. (I was innocent, I tell ya). What was I to do - leap up and run away screaming, "Somebody HELP me! There's a good looking girl that wants to hear me play the guitar! Help!" Ah yes, good times.

[Doug W]

Well Doug,

At least a couple of people are interested in acquiring your music. You never actually said if it was available for sale or otherwise. One guy wanted to propose to Ms. 'E', but I told him that she's already married. I looked for a way to send you a message from the Motagator site, but didn't see a way.

I asked her this morning and she indicated that she is still willing to stay married to me at least for a while, depending on how my new job works out.

The CD is not available at the moment because as I said, we are a band woefully lacking in ambition. However, if you click on my name and send me a private message with your address, I'll send you a complementary CD. We must have one gathering dust somewhere.

Also, looked more into the cards you suggested & others. Found a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Audio card on sale at Fry's for $40, but it apparently requires a Pent-4, so it'll have to wait.

This is the card that I would suggest. Ignore the REFURBISHED bit. If it doesn't work, you can return it and they will send you one that does work. Scroll down to one of the Audigy 2 ZS $39.99 cards.

http://stores.ebay.com/Creative-Labs-Facto...3QQftidZ2QQtZkm

I guess the main difference in the Audigy 2 (value) and Audigy 2 ZS is more included software and one has a midi port? I didn't see an Audigy 2 value in the Creative store on Ebay, so don't know what they'd go for.

My suggestion is to forget about the Creative software entirely and use the kX drivers.

I did a little recording back in the day...waaaayyyy back in the day. In fact, I'm not sure Mr. Peabody and Sherman's time machine had a setting for that long ago. Yep. Local rock star. Lead singer & rhythm guitar. Oh sure, the girls were all over me, but you just have to persevere. :yes:

The Rocky and Bullwinkle eh?, that puts you roughly in my age group.

I think the maddest my future wife ever got was in a music store when I was sitting down playing a guitar. We weren't even engaged. A fetching young lass came over and sat down on the same amp and started talking to me. (I was innocent, I tell ya). What was I to do - leap up and run away screaming, "Somebody HELP me! There's a good looking girl that wants to hear me play the guitar! Help!" Ah yes, good times.

You should have introduced the young lady to your GIRLFRIEND!!!