Serial Killer. Is evil real or just a concept?

[snyper]

I know its a long post, but its worth a read, i watch a documentary on this guy last night. It just frightens me how "evil" people can be.

What causes this "evil" Is it an inherited trait?

He was so difficult to catch because he didnt fit the profile of a serial killer, 1. he was black 2. he killed outside his race 3. he changed his methods of killing 4 he moved from windsor (Toronto) canada to michigen and to texas

Coral Eugene Watts - The Sunday Morning Slasher

Sunday Morning Slasher: Carl Eugene Watts has confessed to more than 80 murders of women in Texas, Michigan and Ontario, Canada, yet he was set to be paroled in 2006. How could this happen?

Watts was born in Fort Hood, Texas November 7, 1953, to Richard and Dorothy Watts. His parents divorced in 1955, his mother moved to Detriot, and Carl spent time with his grandmother. As a child he had megingitis and high fevers and developed learning disabilites. He also enjoyed hunting and skinning rabbits.

First Arrest: By the 1960s, Watts was described as a polite and soft-spoken young man. He had athletic ability and participated in the Golden Gloves boxing program, although academically he was considered below average. By the age of 15, he demonstrated violent behavior. While doing his paper route, he knocked on the apartment door of a woman and attacked her when she opened the door. When arrested he told police, "He just felt like beating someone up."

Institutionalized: In September 1969, prompted by his lawyer, Watts was institutionalized in a hospital in Detroit. Within three months, he was evaluated and placed on outpatient treatment by Dr. Gary Ainsworth. In his final review of Watts, Dr. Ainsworth stated, "This patient is a paranoid young man who is struggling for control of strong homicidal impulses. His behavior controls are faulty, and there is a high potential for violent acting out. This individual is considered dangerous."

A Cat Circling Its Prey: On October 25, 1974, Lenore Knizacky answered her door and was attacked by a man who said he was looking for Charles. She fought back and survived. On October 30, Gloria Steel, 19, was found dead with 33 stab wounds to her chest. A witness reported speaking with a man at Steele’s complex, who said he was looking for Charles. Diane Williams reported being attacked on November 12, under the same circumstances. She survived and managed to see the attacker's car and make a report to the police.

First Confession: Watts was picked out in a line-up by Knizacky and Williams and arrested on assault and battery charges. He admitted to attacking 15 females, but refused to talk about the Steele murder. His attorney arranged for Watts to commit himself into the Kalamazo State Hospital. The hospital psychiatrist investigated Watts' background and learned that at the previous institution, Watts was said to have possibly killed two women by choking them. He diagnosed Watts with an anti-social personality disorder.

Competently Dangerous: Prior to Watts' trial, he had a court ordered evaluation at the Center for Forensic Psychiatry in Ann Arbor. The examining doctor described Watts as dangerous and felt he would most likely attack again and was found competent to stand trial. Carl, or Coral as he now called himself, pled 'no contest,' and received a one year sentence on the assault and battery charges but was never charged in the murder of Steel. In June, 1976, he was out of jail and back home in Detroit with his mother.

The Sunday Morning Slasher Emerges: Ann Arbor is 40 miles west of Detroit and the home of the University of Michigan. In April 1980, the Ann Arbor police were called to the home of 17-year-old Shirley Small. She had been attacked and repeatedly cut with an instrument resembling a scalpel. She bled to death on the sidewalk where she fell. Glenda Richmond, 26, was the next victim. She was found by her doorway, dead from over 28 stab wounds. Rebecca Greer, 20, was next. She died outside her door after being stabbed 54 times.

A task force was formed, led by Detective Paul Bunten, to investigate the murders that occurred within five months of each other. The task force was dealing with no evidence and no witnesses.

Sergeant James Arthurs contacted the task force after reading about the murders. He told them of his past experience with Watts and the similarities of Watts' previous crimes to those now under investigation.

By this time, Watts was working with his stepfather at a trucking company, had a child, then later met another woman who he married.

In October, 1979, Watts was arrested for prowling around in Southfield, Detroit suburb. The charges were later dropped. Investigators did note, however, that during the previous year, five women in the same suburb were assaulted on separate occasions, but with similar circumstances. None were killed, nor could any of them identify their attacker.

By 1979 and 1980, attacks on women in Detroit and surrounding areas became more frequent and violent and similar in style.

October 8, 1979: Peggy Pochmara, 22, strangled, Detroit.

October 31, 1979: Jeanne Clyne, 44, stabbed, Grosse Pointe Farms, Michigan.

March 11, 1980: Hazel Connof, 23, strangled, Detroit.

March 31, 1980: Denise Dunmore, 23, strangled, Detroit.

April 20, 1980: Shirley Small, 17, Ann Arbor.

May 31, 1980: Linda Monteiro, 27, strangled, Detroit.

July, 1980: Glenda Richmond, 26, stabbed, Ann Arbor.

September 14, 1980: Rebecca Huff, 20, stabbed, Ann Arbor.

By May 1980, Watts was divorced. His wife stated that it was due to his strange behavior, which included his habit of leaving their home for hours, immediately after they engaged in sex. Within months, attacks in neighboring Wisteria, Ontario were being reported that were of the same nature as those in Ann Arbor and Detroit

The Windsor, Ontario Connection : In July, 1980, in Windsor, Irene Kondratowiz, 22, was attacked, but lived after having her throat slashed. Sandra Dalpe, 20, lived through being stabbed from behind. Mary Angus, 30, of Windsor, escaped attack by screaming when she realized she was being followed. She picked Watts out of a photo line-up but was unable to say for sure the attacker was him. Detectives discovered that Watts' car was recorded as leaving Windsor for Detroit after each episode. Watts became Bunten’s leading suspect.

Rebecca Huff's Book is Found: On November 15, 1980, an Ann Arbor woman contacted police after she became frightened when she discovered that a man was following her. The women hid in a doorway and the police observed their suspect as he frantically searched for her. When they pulled the man over in his car, he was identified as Coral Watts. Inside the car they found screw drivers and wood filing tools, but the most important discovery was a book that had Rebecca Huff’s name on it.

A Move to Houston: In late January 1981, Watts was brought in on a warrant to give a blood sample. Bunten took the opportunity to talk to Watts but the interview ended without any confession and the blood test failed to link him to any crimes. By that spring, Coral had enough of Bunten and his task force, and made the move to Columbus, Texas, where he found work at an oil company. Houston was 70 miles away, and Watts began spending his weekends cruising the city.

Houston Police Get a Heads Up, but Murders Continue: Bunten forwarded Watts' file to the Houston police, who were able to locate Watts, but unable to find any evidence linking him directly to any of the Houston crimes.

September 5, 1981, Lillian Tilley was attacked at her Arlington apartment and drowned. Later that same month, Elizabeth Montgomery, 25, died after being stabbed in the chest while out walking her dogs. Shortly afterwards, Susan Wolf, 21, was attacked and murdered, as she got out of her car at her home.

Watts is Finally Caught: On May 23, 1982, he attacked roommates Lori Lister and Melinda Aguilar, tied them up, and then attempted to drown Lister in their apartment bathtub. Aguilar was able to escape by jumping head first off of her balcony. Lister was saved by a neighbor and Watts was caught and arrested. The body of Michele Maday was found the same day, drowned in her bathtub in a nearby apartment.

Plea Bargain Time: Under interrogation, Watts refused to talk. Harris County Assistant District Attorney Ira Jones made a deal with Watts in order to get him to confess. Incredibly, he agreed to give him immunity to the charge of murder, if Watts would agree to confess to his murders. Jones was hoping to bring closure to the families of some of the 50 unsolved murders of women in the Houston area. Coral eventually admitted attacking 19 women, 13 of which he confessed to murdering.

Confession of 80 Killings: By the time it was over, Watts admitted to 80 additional murders in Michigan and Canada, but refused to give details because he did not have an immunity agreement for those murders. Coral pled guilty to one count of burglary with intent to kill. Judge Shaver decided that the water in the bathtub could be constituted as a deadly weapon, which would result in the parole board not being able to count Watts' 'good conduct time,' when determining his parole eligibility.

Slippery Appeals: On September, 3, 1982, Watts was sentenced to 60 years in prison. In 1987, after a failed attempt to escape prison by slipping through the bars, Watts decided to begin appealing his sentence, but his appeal lacked the support of his attorney. But in October, 1987, unrelated to any of Watts appeals, the court decided that criminals must be told that a 'deadly weapon' finding may occur during their indictment and to fail to do so violates the criminal’s rights.

Watts Gets a Lucky Break: In 1989, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, decided that because the Judge failed to inform Coral that the bathtub water could be deemed a lethal weapon, that he would not be required to serve his entire sentence. Watts was now eligible for retroactive 'good time earned' equaling three days for every one day served. This would mean he would be released from prison on May 9, 2006.

*******UPDATE****

State Supreme Court denies appeal by Coral Watts2/28/2007, 5:16 p.m. ET

The Associated Press

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — The Michigan Supreme Court has refused to hear a request for a new trial from confessed serial killer Coral Eugene Watts, who appealed his first-degree murder conviction in the 1979 stabbing death of a suburban Detroit woman.

In November 2004, an Oakland County jury convicted Watts of first-degree murder in the slaying of Helen Dutcher, a 36-year-old woman from Ferndale. The next month, a judge gave him a mandatory sentence of life in prison with no possibility of parole.

At his sentencing hearing, Watts denied killing Dutcher.

The Michigan Court of Appeals upheld the conviction last August, rejecting an argument from Watts, now 54, that the jury should not have heard evidence about his confessions to 11 killings in Texas and one in Michigan. He also had argued that his trial lawyer inadequately represented him and should have pursued an insanity defense.

The Court of Appeals said prosecutors in Oakland County were not bound by immunity promises that Watts received elsewhere. It also said there was insufficient evidence that his defense lawyer mishandled the case.

In a one-sentence order issued this week, the Supreme Court said "we are not persuaded that the questions presented should be reviewed by this court."

Watts received immunity for 12 killings to which he had he confessed — 11 in Texas and one in Michigan — as part of a 1982 deal with Texas prosecutors. He was given a 60-year sentence for burglary with intent to murder, but mandatory release laws and an appeals court ruling reduced his sentence by more than 35 years.

Michigan authorities revived the Dutcher case in an effort to keep Watts behind bars because he was set to be released from a Huntsville, Texas, prison last May.

Watts, who was raised in the Detroit suburb of Inkster, is serving his current sentence at the Ionia Maximum Correctional Facility.

Update source: http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/in...st=newsmichigan

Edited March 1, 2007 by snyper

[Skiver Veteran]

is their a background story to this? i have to admit i dont watch the news much as i tend to get angry and frustrated with what i see :p

i think their is such a concept as evil, i dont think its something a person decideds on... they dont wake up one morning and think "you know what, i fancy being the bad guy today"

the only way i can think to describe them is mentally ill, they dont see consequences of their actions

I cant even comprehend what goes through these peoples minds as they commit murder or rape multiple times... so its hard to try to discuss why they do it

EDIT: you would post the story now wouldnt you :p... let me read it and edit again in a second

ok so some DR said he had violent tendencies, well not even violent. homicidal traits in his personality yet he was still able to do these things!?

maybe some people are just born with an "evil gene"

[Chimera]

Some "serial killers" are batsh*t crazy (Dahmer, Berkowitz). Some however I believe are just plain evil (Bundy, Gacey).

[Skiver Veteran]

damn it snyper you edited again!!!!

How the hell can anyone think, i know, this man has been said to be violent by numerous psychiatrists, he has killed X amount of people and attacked a further X... but lets give him immunity if he confesses!

this man should be on death row not getting out early!

i notice the date he was released was last year, i wonder if he has commited any further crimes and back in side by now

just another case of the justice being served eh :rolleyes:

[snyper]

no, the update on that is that there was a wittness of one of his earlier crimes in Michigen that saw him slash a woman but the police ignored his pleas for justice, but this time they brought him up for trial 3 yrs before he was due for release.

The wittness and victims that survived in Texas testfied against him, and he wont see the light of day again. He at the moment is appealing the decision.

[bluebell]

Jack the Ripper

[snyper]

State Supreme Court denies appeal by Coral Watts2/28/2007, 5:16 p.m. ET

Original post updated with this story

[t_r_nelson]

I don't think you can qualify him as "mentally ill." I don't think someone like this is "ill" or "sick". IMO it is, for lack of a better term, bad wiring. Ill implies something that can be fixed. When you get someone like this, I don't think their brain was developed the same as the rest of us. This issue is pathological. Something that just doesn't work like "normal" brains. And, even if drugs could help him, if he stops taking them, the impulse to inflict pain and death will resurface.

In other words, lock him up or kill him. He is a danger to humanity.

[snyper]

Ill implies something that can be fixed

I agree with most of your post except this....

Not all illness can be cured.

[TheElite]

I agree with most of your post except this....

Not all illness can be cured.

Yes, like cancers.

[_bobcat_ Veteran]

Good and evil are human concepts evolved from our higher reasoning, ability to empathise and all that palaver.

Animals have no clue about these. When a male lion takes over a Pride he will promptly murder any cubs fathered by the ousted rival. Is this evil? No, it's natural. Just like animals hunting other animals for food. Just like humans killing things to eat.

Everyone agrees rape is an evil act, and yet marital rape was legal in Britain until about 1991. It is still legal in many parts of the world. So rape is and was accepted by society under certain conditions, without being judged as an evil act. Another example would be sacrificial killings of innocent people or the sanction of murder in war. Killing is killing, but it's only said to be evil under certain circumstances, which vary between cultures and societies.

That does not mean I think we don't need the concept of evil. Human societies need strict rules to enable them to function without descending into chaos. Unlike lions, we have the capacity to lots of really bad things. We need to be taught not to and why not.

I don't think you can qualify him as "mentally ill." I don't think someone like this is "ill" or "sick". IMO it is, for lack of a better term, bad wiring. Ill implies something that can be fixed. When you get someone like this, I don't think their brain was developed the same as the rest of us. This issue is pathological. Something that just doesn't work like "normal" brains. And, even if drugs could help him, if he stops taking them, the impulse to inflict pain and death will resurface.

In other words, lock him up or kill him. He is a danger to humanity.

You would agree syphilis is an illness? Well if left untreated it can causes changes in the structure of the brain that can not be rectified.

Parkinson's disease is caused by the death of neurones in a small part of the brain, interfering with dopamine levels.

Again, this can not be cured or stopped - 80% of the neurones will be lost before symptoms even appear. An underlying pathology produces symptoms that constitute a progressive illness.

So while I agree someone like this man may have an underlying abnormality of the brain (who are we to say, anyway) I also think that the man constitutes as being "ill" or "sick" *because* of the pathology and it's symptoms. I also agree that he is too dangerous to be freed.

[primexx]

It's really dangerous to classify "evilness" as a mental problem to be treated instead of punished. To do so would absolve offenders of their fault, since it is assumed that they cannot control a disease, and when someone acts involuntarily, they have no moral fault. Justice systems are based on that very moral fault we presume offenders to have. The purpose that the justice system serves is retribution, to "get back" at those who harmed society by doing a proportional harm to them. That being so, it will not punish people who are unable to control their actions, or to realise what they are doing or the consequences of their actions, for to punish them would be punishing them not for the crime that they have committed, but rather for being "sick" or "controlled" by an external force. That is contrary to principles of fundamental justice. If we are to believe that offenders are inflicted with the "evilness" disease rather than willingly doing harm, then the justice system would collapse for nobody would be punishable.

[dud]

In the Matrix, Mouse says "To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human." This is wrong. Denying our impulses is, without a doubt, the very thing that sets us apart from animals.

Goodness and virtue can be defined as resisting animal instincts. Evil is giving into them. We all have varied levels of where we draw the line, but most will agree that murder, rape, theft, child abuse, and mistreatment of the elderly are evil. People who find no wrong in them go to prisons and sanitariums.

It's really dangerous to classify "evilness" as a mental problem to be treated instead of punished.

I agree!

[DigitalE]

Man is born with a sin nature; that's why people are bad.

[snyper]

i think itd definately more Nature than an aquired thing.

Ted bundy was a weirdo from day one suffering from 2 separate mental disorders, but is drandfather was also an evil ****** hence the genes are there.