Elite to use HDMI 1.2...Not 1.3!

By Rainbow Dave
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Rainbow Dave

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Over on the AVS forums, an insider from Microsoft let the kitty cat out of the bag on the Xbox 360 Elite's use of HDMI. According to the post, the Elite will incorporate HDMI 1.2 and not the newer 1.3 version which the PS3 uses. What's the big difference you ask? Well, not too much other than HDMI 1.3 features TrueHD and DTS-HD audio output and other small fixes where as 1.2 does not. There's a lot of technical mumbo jumbo to be read, so if you're into all that technical jazz feel free to read up on the differences. For the HDMI noobs amongst us (which we mostly all fall under) check out Wikipedia's HDMI 1.2 vs 1.3 comparison and get learnified.

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https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/550832-elite-to-use-hdmi-12not-13/
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Grand Master

jerzdawg

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While I still think its a dumb idea not to have gone with the latest version.... its not going to make that much of a difference... the people who truly can take advantage of TrueHD and DTS-HD audio will have dedicated equipment to handle this... they wont be using the add-on HD-DVD player, they will have the Toshiba HD-DVD player or another dedicated player... not the 360.. so before all the MS haters come running in here there may not have been any advantage to using the 1.3 besides that extra bandwidth... on a side note can the optical cable carry the TrueHD or DTS-HD audio???

Here is a post pulled from the original article.. pretty much sums it up nicely..

"This is a complete non-issue. Games don't output TrueHD/DTS-MA, and probably never will.

HD-DVD doesn't output TrueHD/DTS-MA, and probably never will. (Yes, discs are encoded in TrueHD, but the player MUST have a TrueHD decoder in it, so that it can do mixing of multiple audio streams (menu sounds, commentary). And once the player's decoded it, it can send it as uncompressed multi-channel digital audio over any version of HDMI without any degradation at all. There's no reason at all for it to recompress to TrueHD at that point.)"

Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

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Well, the Xbox 360 doesn't support TruHD or DTS-HD (or even DTS)... so it can't support HDMI 1.3. Adding that support would mean revving more internal hardware. Like anyone is going to notice the difference between DD and TruHD in a game anyway...

Aside from that minor detail, how many people are even going to run sound through HDMI? Not many, I'd bet. Fortunately they are shipping optical audio out as well, which is what most people are going to use.

Grand Master

Lexcyn

Posted
Posted
Well, the Xbox 360 doesn't support TruHD or DTS-HD (or even DTS)... so it can't support HDMI 1.3.

Aside from that minor detail, how many people are even going to run sound through HDMI? Not many, I'd bet. Fortunately they are shipping optical audio out as well, which is what most people are going to use anyway.

Gee ... and here I thought HDMI was a 'High Definition Multimedia Interface'. :p From my understanding, the biggest draw to HDMI is the 1080p (digital) signal - however, there's also the fact that it delivers high res video as well as digital audio in one cable, reducing clutter and cable confusion. I'm pretty sure if someone bought a TV/receiver with HDMI, they would want to use the video and audio portion of the cable, otherwise why not just use HDMI to DVI-D and an optical cable? You can still use HDMI for both and get the Dolby Digital sound (not DTS or TruHD but what's the diff?)

Grand Master

goji

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Like anyone is going to notice the difference between DD and TruHD in a game anyway...

Like anyone can really notice the difference from regular DVD image to HD image :rolleyes:

Yes, there is a noticeable difference between DD and Tru-HD. Heck, there is a major difference between DD and DTS @ 1.5mps, and yes the difference is night and day on a well mastered disc.

From what I have gathered, the HDMI config that MS is using was based upon what was available at the time as a solid platform (1.2a). The 1.3 format was not even codified as of yet, so MS had not choice but to support what was available when developing this (meaning Elite sku was under development for quite a while now kids). Nay sayers may say, but wait, the PS3 has 1.3 support, which is true. However, Sony, unlike MS, is one of the key founders and developers of the format so they had instant access to all data regarding the new standard.

Brandon, it is an insult and bad PR when one of the key players of a new format is unable to meet all the specs that are the key points of said format. Its supposed to be about HD audio and video, not just video. What makes it worse is that every MS rep I have heard from now has flat out said in so many words: "Sorry kid you lose on this one. Go buy another competitors product since we cant provide what you want."

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5Horizons

Posted
Posted
I'm pretty sure if someone bought a TV/receiver with HDMI, they would want to use the video and audio portion of the cable, otherwise why not just use HDMI to DVI-D and an optical cable? You can still use HDMI for both and get the Dolby Digital sound (not DTS or TruHD but what's the diff?)

I think what he means is that most people who are concerned about HDMI will also be concerned about audio quality, so they'll have the separate optical cable going to their receiver and surround setup rather than to the TV through HDMI. I know a lot of TVs will then let you pass the audio back to a receiver from there, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one cable in the first place.

Like anyone can really notice the difference from regular DVD image to HD image

I'd definitely say that it's easier to notice quality differences in a visual medium, so maybe most people wouldn't notice. Most people can't tell the difference between an original CD and a 128kbps AAC file or 192kbps MP3 file (just an example). I haven't experienced TruHD yet, though, so I'm just talking out of my ass ;)

Grand Master

Andrew Lyle Global Moderator

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Well, the Xbox 360 doesn't support TruHD or DTS-HD (or even DTS)... so it can't support HDMI 1.3. Adding that support would mean revving more internal hardware. Like anyone is going to notice the difference between DD and TruHD in a game anyway...

Aside from that minor detail, how many people are even going to run sound through HDMI? Not many, I'd bet. Fortunately they are shipping optical audio out as well, which is what most people are going to use.

very very true.

changing all the hardware would be pointless at this stage in the game..

I know if i get an Elite, i'll be using optical audio out like i do now

Grand Master

neufuse Veteran

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What HDMI version does the PS3 use?

PS. Honest question folks, as I have no idea.

Yeah because the difference is so noticable between them :rolleyes: I'm sorry but who cares? This is littearly splitting hairs having a 30bit pixel depth on a video game wont do much for it over the previous 24bit depth and having a higher bandwidth, so what? it still can handle what it has to handle

Grand Master

MGS4-SS

Posted
Posted
1.3

Thank you for the quick answer.

Yeah because the difference is so noticable between them :rolleyes: I'm sorry but who cares? This is littearly splitting hairs having a 30bit pixel depth on a video game wont do much for it over the previous 24bit depth and having a higher bandwidth, so what? it still can handle what it has to handle

I care, and for me that is more than enough people caring.

Grand Master

Andrew Lyle Global Moderator

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i think its pretty dumb to come out with the elite so quickly. Not to mention to call it "elite" and its already outdated spec's. For the money I would want 1.3 and gigabit ethernet

yeah your right.. microsoft should of forked over the cash to put in an HD-DVD drive, compatable with blu-ray discs, and used HDMI 1.3, with TruHD.. what were they thinking???

/sarcasm

they didn't use it because maybe it's not needed? almost like bluray for games, and HDMI 1.3 with TruHD audio... like the PS3 has.

Grand Master

goji

Posted
Posted
alright so what does HDMI 1.3 offer that you can noticable see or hear different from 1.2? because the differences are soooo small for human perception...

It only allows for the streaming of HD audio to be decoded by receivers or preamp/processors that are equipped wit the tech :whistle:

In other words, it brings both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray offerings into their full goodness. The HDMI cable for the Elite will allow some gamers experience 1080p resolution on their sets.

With everything, if you haven't experience either HD audio or video, it may not mean ot much to you. For those that have they will appreciate being able to enjoy it on the 360 now.

Edit: Lyles, the ability to have 1.3 specs and have the audio streams bypass the 360 all together would be great. 360 cant decode it since MS doesn't have the rights or the chips under the hood to do it, and they ain't gonna either.

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