The Great UAC Debate!


UAC  

1412 members have voted

  1. 1. Do You Use UAC?

    • Yes
      477
    • Yes, On "Silent Mode"
      91
    • No (I use an Admin Account)
      496
    • No (I use a Standard Account)
      39
    • I don't use Windows Vista
      118
  2. 2. Have You Ever Been Saved By UAC?

    • Yes
      226
    • No
      932
    • I don't use Windows Vista
      106


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  • 1 month later...

UAC is the first thing i disable on every Vista system i setup... UAC is a royal pain in the *SS, and most of my clients absolutely hate UAC, because it constantly nags/annoys the user about the most trivial activities. UAC just gets in the way of getting real work done.

UAC is not a feature, it's a bug, and if microsoft was serious about securing the OS, then they would never have hacked together a crappy/half-assed/stop-gap measure like UAC.

UAC is the first thing i disable on every Vista system i setup... UAC is a royal pain in the *SS, and most of my clients absolutely hate UAC, because it constantly nags/annoys the user about the most trivial activities. UAC just gets in the way of getting real work done.

UAC is not a feature, it's a bug, and if microsoft was serious about securing the OS, then they would never have hacked together a crappy/half-assed/stop-gap measure like UAC.

Wow, I seriously pity any client you have, if that's the best you can come up with. Do us a favor and get out of the field before you do any more damage.

Ok, I'm not claiming to be an expert.

But let us say i follow the turn UAC off camp,

What's the worst that could happen considering the arguments for and against, i end up giving malware admin access that wasn't intended as mentioned above.

Now considering I don't turn it off,

I'm annoyed daily when I'm renaming files editing ini files in program files(which i now know i can find in the virtual store thanks topic :D).

considering the two worst scenario outcomes I can tell you I personally would rather be "Protected" and annoyed.

Edit: Wow 26 pages, I think this thread has gotten way too big, and i only read until page 9, and even rorm the first 3 pages just saw people repeating themselves, reckon the facts from this topic just need to be pinned, and then locked,

but its not my place to back seat mod....

Edited by ryan_the_leach

UAC in Vista was horrible, but since I moved to Windows 7, i have it turned on default settings - I only see it when a program needs to elevate itself, which hardly ever happens - and it saved my ass a couple of times too, the icon overlay usually gives you a heads up, when an app is not supposed to make use of the administrator privileges. A great thing!

  • 1 month later...

I like UAC. I run as a standard user and my Admin account has a password. Despite all of that you never know when something might get through, so UAC is turned on, just in case. It is slightly annoying but not nearly as annoying as many make it out to be.

As I stated in another thread I need an AV because all the systems at one of my client's office are infected and I have to connect my USB drive there to exchange data, I also bring back viruses/malware from there and for me the combination of Norton AV 2009 and UAC is golden.. no infections so far since I started using these 2.. UAC doesn't let the exe files run without consent and NAV cleans them off. I feel almost nothing can sneak through and infect me system (Y)

Sigh... when will that crap die.

It's a non-issue. UAC in Win7 works as intended and should be left at the default setting for most users (the UAC settings dialog explains which option you should use based on your usage habits).

Is it better to run as a standard user and elevate as necessary? I'll be reinstalling 7 when the final comes out so I'll switch to doing that if there is a genuine benefit over running as admin at max UAC settings.

The most secure thing you can do is to run as a standard user, and use Fast User Switching to switch to an administrator account for admin tasks.

A step down from that is to use OTS (Over The Shoulder) elevation, where you run as a standard user but run admin tools as an Administrator on the same desktop. To make this safer you'll want to turn on the option that requires a Ctrl+Alt+Del press before elevating, since you'll have to type a password, and you want to make sure the dialog isn't being spoofed. However, this is not a security boundary because non-admin and admin apps are sharing the same desktop.

A step down from that is UAC at the maximum setting. This is much easier to live with because you don't need to enter a password (and don't need the C+A+D press to protect from spoofing) and the apps still run with your user profile and such. Again this is not considered a security boundary because non-admin and admin apps share the same desktop.

-- The above two options are safest at times when there are no admin apps are running --

A small step down from that is the default Win7 configuration where you aren't prompted for changes to Windows settings. This reduces the barrier between non-admin and admin applications, but maintains the same barrier between protected applications (like the IE Protected Mode and Chrome sandboxes) and normal applications.

There's another notch below that where the secure desktop switch is not enabled, opening up the possibility that someone could tamper with the consent dialog.

Below that is disabling UAC entirely. This is a very bad idea because it removes the "low integrity" option used for things like IE's Protected Mode and Chrome's sandbox. That is a very important and useful security feature for mitigating the impact of exploits against the most common attack surfaces.

Across these options you have trade-offs between safety and useability. The default option is meant to provide the best balance for most users.

A step down from that is UAC at the maximum setting. This is much easier to live with because you don't need to enter a password (and don't need the C+A+D press to protect from spoofing) and the apps still run with your user profile and such.

that's right and this way it was done in Vista.

Again this is not considered a security boundary because non-admin and admin apps share the same desktop.

Yes it it. The IL levels prevent you from attacking an admin app from a non-admin app.

Across these options you have trade-offs between safety and useability. The default option is meant to provide the best balance for most users.

no, it only opens a security whole which can be used very easy run apps with admin rights without accepting the UAC prompt. If Average Joe got a mail with a link to get a free cool game and the chance to win a few bucks he will download the tool and try to run it. Under Vista UAC prompt was shown and this unsettles him and de doesn't accept it. With Win7 the apps can use the Explorer, DWM or several other MS apps to bypass the UAC prompt and still get admin rights.

And this is WRONG!

The IL levels prevent you from attacking an admin app from a non-admin app.

No, this is not the purpose of IL levels (in every Windows NT version any admin app can't be attacked by a non-admin app). The purpose of IL levels is preventing an app1 to attack another app2 which runs with the same privileges of app1 i.e. app1 and app2 are running with the same privileges but different integrity levels.

Edited by jamesVault
  • 2 months later...
I'm hoping future versions will not have an option to disable UAC, any insider info on that possibility?

That should NOT happen. People should have the ability to customize they're computer, I personally don't like **** popping up whenever I click to run programs, it happens everytime firefox starts up, some java **** or something.

That should NOT happen. People should have the ability to customize they're computer, I personally don't like **** popping up whenever I click to run programs, it happens everytime firefox starts up, some java **** or something.

It should have happened in Windows 7. Microsoft should have hard coded UAC at default with NO way to change it period. I have never ever had a UAC prompt for Firefox ever if you are getting them you have something on your end.

  • 6 months later...
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  • Posts

    • Write to your MP 😄 Like believing in Santa. Total surveillance IS the goal. Wake up.
    • This whole dumb age verification thing needs to die and be replaced by giving parents tools to control devices. Why am I required to plaster my ID all over the internet to prove I'm old enough when parents should be the ones dictating what their kids are doing on their phones. Apple released great set of tools for iPhones coming to iOS 27 that do just that. Why are governments not mandating that kind of control to phone makers to built them into phones. This whole thing is so absolutely idiotic it's wild.
    • Remeber this decade, when the free internet died... tell your grand kids about this, record there reaction and post it on InstaTwitBook.com
    • UK nudity blockers are a looming privacy disaster, we must be able to see the source code by Paul Hill Image via Pexels The UK government, just like many state governments in the US and national governments around the world, has begun going on a bit of a power trip when it comes to digital safety. The major step taken so far is the introduction of the Online Safety Act, which requires users to prove their age to access adult websites (it includes more than this, too). Now, UK PM Keir Starmer is calling on Apple and Google, and presumably other mobile OS makers, to scan phones for explicit images to protect children. This potentially mandatory on-device scanning by vendor-controlled software will create unacceptable harms to individual freedoms and transparency, and introduce massive surveillance risks. In a statement on June 8, the Prime Minister stated that big tech companies, such as Apple and Google, must add features to their platforms, such as iOS and Android, that will detect and block sexually explicit or nude images involving under-18s on phones or tablets. Adults who want to take or send nudes would be required to hand over some form of identification to stop their phone from blocking these pictures, creating unnecessary privacy risks. According to the government, it wants to see these measures implemented within three months; otherwise, the government will introduce legislation to force them to introduce such technology. The legislation will include fines for companies and maybe even criminal liability for tech bosses who do not comply with the measures. In its announcement, the government said that stopping users from taking, sending, or receiving nudes without verifying their age is technically feasible, and pointed to a British firm called SafeToNet, which has made proprietary, closed-source, uninstallable software called HarmBlock and is actively selling a device with it enabled and is working with other OEMs. The fact that this software is closed source is a huge problem because it’s a black box; you do not know what it is doing on your device. The fact that it is unremovable is also a problem because you lose control of a phone that you own. Laughably, the government, just before highlighting SafeToNet, says that companies must introduce such measures “without threatening privacy or collecting any data.” It then says over-18s will still be able to view adult content by providing proof of age… Which sounds to me like data collection. SafeToNet makes some debatable claims about HarmBlock The government’s example software, HarmBlock, is a hugely alarming choice to espouse the virtues of this type of software. SafeToNet claims that HarmBlock is “ethically developed,” but this is the opposite of the truth. This black box software puts digital handcuffs on you if it’s installed in your device, taking away your freedom to control what software runs on your device, as it cannot be removed. It is not even free software, so we cannot inspect the source code to see what it is doing. For all we know, it could be acting maliciously. While that’s unlikely, we can’t verify that it’s not doing that. When Google and Apple do inevitably integrate these features on devices in the UK, they are very likely to be closed-source binaries, which will also be non-auditable. They will also have identity services built into them, which will require at least temporary collection of sensitive identity documents to verify your age. One saving grace for Android users is that this nudity blocker will very likely be implemented within the Google Play infrastructure that’s deeply tied into commercial Android devices. However, anyone with enough determination to throw out Google apps from their phone by flashing a custom ROM could find they regain control over their phone again without these digital handcuffs. Obviously, this is only how I expect Google to implement the feature; if it bakes it into the open-source Android somehow, that would be bad news for anyone looking to escape it. Outside of stripping mobile phone users of their freedom and sovereignty over their devices, these proprietary on-device machine learning or hash-matching solutions cannot be independently audited. This means that hackers could potentially exploit them because security researchers can’t investigate the code, and they could overstep their intended use case and collect even more user data without anybody knowing. We also wouldn’t know if the code is prone to detecting false positives or biased classification, because we can’t see the code. In the government’s announcement, contributing comments from the Internet Watch Foundation keep talking about “on-device protections” as if to say that users don’t need to worry about server-side processing; however, this is misleading, as data could flow from devices for the purpose of updates, remote model changes, telemetry, or server-side matching. We’ve also seen with the Online Safety Act that the government is never content with the laws it introduces; it always wants to expand the controls. If this scanning functionality arrives on devices, it might only block nudes initially, but later governments could pressure vendors for expanded access or use mandated features for other surveillance aims. The introduction of on-device scanners opens the door to massive risks in the future. Once nude blocking becomes normalized, regulators like Ofcom or politicians themselves could push for more controls over people’s devices. Very possible candidates for blocking include hate speech, misinformation, or undesirable political content. Also, there is a chance that once Apple and Google have developed this software, they might attempt to reuse the infrastructure for commercial or foreign requests, putting customers in greater danger. Just the UK's demand for this sets a precedent. What if a dictatorship decides to spy on activists by demanding that Google or Apple implement similar controls? Another concern with this scanning is that it adds compliance costs for businesses looking to get into the mobile operating system space. While Google and Apple dominate the space right now, there are lots of smaller companies creating mobile operating systems too, including community projects with very shallow pockets. How are these smaller competitors supposed to implement sophisticated nudity detectors? Simply put, they can’t. Then the government goes after them, causes them to shut down, and Google and Apple have less competition. Image via Aurora Store For us users who value sovereignty over our technology, this development will force us to seek freedom-respecting alternatives. The simplest path forward will likely be to install a custom ROM on an Android device; however, kicking Google off the phone with its black box nudity blocker could also make it harder to access apps such as banking apps, which tend to need you to pass Google's integrity checks. Thankfully, Google Play Store apps can still be obtained by storefronts such as the Aurora Store, but it just adds to the friction. To be fair to those pushing this measure to protect children, I think it will be reasonably effective, but people will still try to find ways around it, just as they’ve done with age gates on adult websites introduced under the Online Safety Act. In the effort to find circumvention methods, it could lead users to join riskier platforms that introduce new dangers. This effort also diverts resources from proven interventions such as law enforcement cooperation, targeted investigations, education, and support services to broad technical controls that have uncertain effectiveness (due to their newness). If the government is set on introducing such tools, then there ought to be safeguards in place. Any mandated code should be released as free software so that it can be audited, and the binaries should be reproducible builds so that the public knows nothing has been tampered with in the code used to create the binaries shipped out. Ideally, these tools should also be voluntary, opt-in, and even community-run. This would also allow people to have full control over their hardware while allowing parents to flip a switch to turn on these protections for children, with the knowledge that the code being run is doing exactly what it says on the tin, and nothing nefarious, like a black box solution could be doing. The government should also have a narrow legal scope where this technology stays with blocking nudes and not spreading to blocking political opinions, hate speech, and so on. Ideally, any implementation should avoid identity-linked age verification to keep user data safe, and matching should be done locally with no server telemetry to ensure it is truly on-device. While I do understand that stakeholders such as parents want to keep children safe, the potential for abuse with this type of software is colossal. It would entrench black-box surveillance and take away our freedom to use our devices as we want. There is also the acute risk that the government will demand this surveillance be expanded to block other activities, which could be particularly dangerous. If you are in the UK and don’t wish to see these measures implemented, it is still possible to write to your MP, which could lead to some better safeguards being introduced before it’s too late. Once we get more technical information about how this will be implemented, then we will be able to see if de-Googling Android devices will bypass this measure. For anyone with an iPhone, there is zero chance that you’ll be able to take off these handcuffs because Apple doesn’t let you mess with your software.
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