J.J. Abrams' Star Trek

[Chemaz]

They mentioned shields in the movie but it seemed like they didnt do much as the torps pretty much ruined them on first shot..

In the early years of Star Trek they didnt really have shields u see in TNG/Voyager/DS9 etc. They're less advanced, they kinda dampen the impact of torpedos, and absorb phaser blasts.

So basically shields in that time frame lessen the damage but doesnt completely stop damage like they do later in the star trek era

My take on the film as a huge fan of star trek, was that it was good, though kinda annoying they randomly invented red-antimatter, and wiped out the vulcans. They was also not enough scotty in it, and i was disapointed the Enterprise didnt really get in a huge fight at the end, I prefer the normal star trek take, that the enterprise gets severely damaged but finds a way to win. Instead of hiding until its kinda safe lol

Also the engineering room looked stupid with hand valves, littler or no crew, and random water pipe system lol, and 6 warp cores :s

But overall great cast, and great way to give a much needed new lease of life into Star Trek

[Budious]

The Romulan sun explosion seems like a rehash of the Klingon sun (or was it a moon?) exploding in Star Trek VI. So in the new revised timeline, you have the destruction of the Vulcan homeworld by temporal interference and the eventual destruction of the Klingon and Romulan homeworlds as natural disasters. Bajorans get conquered by Cardassians, whose homeworld is eventually conquered by the Dominion. A shame that Earth didn't get a similar fate from the Borg in First Contact, but they have overplayed the homeworld destruction card too many times in this franchise. Stop rehashing it and be a little more original.

Not to mention, I don't even remotely understand how Nero blames Spock for a natural disaster?! WTF, is this seriously the plotline?

[LOC Veteran]

The Romulan sun explosion seems like a rehash of the Klingon sun (or was it a moon?) exploding in Star Trek VI. So in the new revised timeline, you have the destruction of the Vulcan homeworld by temporal interference and the eventual destruction of the Klingon and Romulan homeworlds as natural disasters. Bajorans get conquered by Cardassians, whose homeworld is eventually conquered by the Dominion. A shame that Earth didn't get a similar fate from the Borg in First Contact, but they have overplayed the homeworld destruction card too many times in this franchise. Stop rehashing it and be a little more original.

Not to mention, I don't even remotely understand how Nero blames Spock for a natural disaster?! WTF, is this seriously the plotline?

The Klingon Moon Praxis exploded, polluting the atmosphere of the Klingon homeworld, not destroying it.

I wasn't to fond of the destruction of Vulcan either, but who knows in future movies maybe they will do more time travel and fix that also :D

And point of fact, Bajor was never conquered by the Dominion. Bajor signed a non-agression pact with the Dominion and was never "invaded" or anything like that. Not to mention the Federation took back DS9 fairly quickly in the scheme of things.

And to really understand why Nero blames Spock Prime (I hate using that terminology, but it's essentially correct), you should read the Countdown comics which flesh out the storyline much more.

[Budious]

And point of fact, Bajor was never conquered by the Dominion. Bajor signed a non-agression pact with the Dominion and was never "invaded" or anything like that. Not to mention the Federation took back DS9 fairly quickly in the scheme of things.

Should have worded that better, meant in turn, that Cardassia was occupied by the Dominion after allowing too many of their forces military access to Cardassian territory, though they eventually retake it from the Dominion in DS9 story arc.

And to really understand why Nero blames Spock Prime (I hate using that terminology, but it's essentially correct), you should read the Countdown comics which flesh out the storyline much more.

Can you just give me the quick summary because I can't be arsed to go find or read the comics. As it stands in the movie alone, it makes very little sense. Unless he had a direct role in why the sun blew up in the first place, it's no one's responsibility to stop a sun from exploding, it's a weak argument for a plot feud.

[Richard Hammond]

no. They did refer to shields. I just didn't see any shield impacts in the ship-to-ship battle scenes. It felt as if they were fighting with no shields. All you saw was explosions.

I think they referred to "shields" like polarising the hull plating from Enterprise.

I just received my copy of the Star Trek OST, i love the main theme Michael Giacchino is fast becoming one of my favourite composers, the modern orchestral take on the original series theme from the end credits is amazing.

Can you just give me the quick summary because I can't be arsed to go find or read the comics. As it stands in the movie alone, it makes very little sense. Unless he had a direct role in why the sun blew up in the first place, it's no one's responsibility to stop a sun from exploding, it's a weak argument for a plot feud.

Basically Spock was living on Romulus in the future, he finds out that the sun will go nova and will eventually destroy Romulus, the Romulan council ignore him and Spock joins up with Nero to try and get the vulcans to help by using their knowledge of Red Matter, much time is wasted and the star goes nova and by the time Spock is in a position to use the Jellyfish and the Red Matter to stop the shockwave Romulus is destroy and Nero blamed Spock for wasting time, conspiring against Romulus and allowing Romulus to be destroyed

[VIVIsectVI]

use the Jellyfish and the Red Matter

Are those something from the new movie?

[LOC Veteran]

Are those something from the new movie?

Yes.

[Hupp]

People need to understand its not that they dont have shields, they were going up against a ship that was from 200 years in the future. Do you really think the shield would offer really any protection? There weapons were designed to damage ships with way better designed and powered shields. Just think of body armor today and how advanced weapons have became from 1800-2000. Do you think any body armor from 1800 would stand up against anything today?

[LOC Veteran]

People need to understand its not that they dont have shields, they were going up against a ship that was from 200 years in the future. Do you really think the shield would offer really any protection? There weapons were designed to damage ships with way better designed and powered shields. Just think of body armor today and how advanced weapons have became from 1800-2000. Do you think any body armor from 1800 would stand up against anything today?

While your point may be true, I don't think so. I don't know how many countless times in Trek they've shown ships from different eras taking damage and it's shields taking impacts throughout the years from other ships from other eras. (Say that 5 times fast)

Plus, I think like others have said the movie just didn't show shield impacts. They say quite clearly in the movie that "deflectors" are holding when they are moving through the debris field, but no impacts are shown when they would obviously be there. Not to mention the Enterprise hits another ship's debris and there is no shield impact shown (but hull plates are ripped off?)

[Hupp]

While your point may be true, I don't think so. I don't know how many countless times in Trek they've shown ships from different eras taking damage and it's shields taking impacts throughout the years from other ships from other eras. (Say that 5 times fast)

Plus, I think like others have said the movie just didn't show shield impacts. They say quite clearly in the movie that "deflectors" are holding when they are moving through the debris field, but no impacts are shown when they would obviously be there. Not to mention the Enterprise hits another ship's debris and there is no shield impact shown (but hull plates are ripped off?)

to my knowledge the shields have never blocked or shown up on a collision, they were only seen when something kind of weapon hit it. after all they are used to block electrical/laser weapons mostly and deflect minuscule objects in their way. Shields and ships from different eras? Like, the only time I've seen that was in TNG and beyond and i've never seen them show an older ship and their shields in those episodes. And those ships already had way more advanced shields some 300-400 years into the future from this reboot.

[Marcos_Edson]

The Klingon Moon Praxis exploded, polluting the atmosphere of the Klingon homeworld, not destroying it.

It must have been one hell of pollution level, since the Praxis' shockwave almost destroyed the Excelsior, millions of kilometers away... :woot:

Or maybe the small chunk of Praxis that survived happened to be pointing to the planet so the shockwave never hit it... :shiftyninja:

[Budious]

to my knowledge the shields have never blocked or shown up on a collision, they were only seen when something kind of weapon hit it. after all they are used to block electrical/laser weapons mostly and deflect minuscule objects in their way.

The way they use them in Star Trek V, a shuttle pod rams through the Enterprise's shields and lands roughly in the shuttle bay. Given enough mass and acceleration an object of mass will push through the shield. Not sure if I have ever seen a torpedo ever deflected off the shields in a Trek movie either, I guess the effect would be similar to the shuttle pod to deflect the course or explosion away from the ship but not prevent an impact.

Basically Spock was living on Romulus in the future, he finds out that the sun will go nova and will eventually destroy Romulus, the Romulan council ignore him and Spock joins up with Nero to try and get the vulcans to help by using their knowledge of Red Matter, much time is wasted and the star goes nova and by the time Spock is in a position to use the Jellyfish and the Red Matter to stop the shockwave Romulus is destroy and Nero blamed Spock for wasting time, conspiring against Romulus and allowing Romulus to be destroyed

Still a silly premise for a plotline. Why not take up greviance with the Romulan council in the past? Wait a minute, you have the ability to time travel, why not go back into the past with the Jellyfish and stop the nova. To paraphrase Marty McFly, "What a minute... I got all the time in the world, I'm in a damn time machine." :rolleyes:

[Evolution]

He never had the ability to travel in time... he just went through a blackhole....

And I guess Nero was consumed by complete anger :s

[Budious]

He never had the ability to travel in time... he just went through a blackhole....

And I guess Nero was consumed by complete anger :s

If Spock was willing just to accept the new timeline and give Scotty his own transwarp equation before he invented it, would he not care just take the Enterprise for a joyride around the sun again? ;)

Also, I'm a little confused, cause he could calculate where to make blackholes. In the movie he appears 25 years too early and attacks USS Kelvin, then he disappears for another 25 years, but calculates the exact time Spock Prime will arrive in the Jellyfish. It appears he has the ability calculate and form blackholes to journey in time as he pleases with the red matter, though if not accurately, surely Spock could help him with the accuracy part.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Those Trekkies complaining about plot holes and ridiculousness might have forgotten about TOS episodes...

"Dear Ship's Log, we've zoomed around the galaxy some more, and we've found an exact replica of Earth."

[devHead]

Wow, this is becoming painful! You can't be this stupid??

I have already said that the film was exactly what I expected ( we all knew what was coming ), my point is that I don't like it and it failed dismally, it IS NOT Star Trek, how hard is it to understand that?

It is not Star Trek so why call it that? Call it Space Wars or Star Fail, anything but Star Trek!

One more time, this is not Star Trek remade for the masses, it is something else entirely.

First off Malkii, don't call people stupid simply because they don't share your opinion or viewpoint.

Secondly, it failed dismally only in your own mind, not anywhere else.

Thirdly, it is Star Trek, because it exists in the Star Trek universe, it has all the Star Trek characters, the same ships, the same aliens (Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, etc.) Chekov is Russian in this movie, Sulu is Japanese, Uhura is African, Scotty is Scottish, Spock is Vulcan, Bones can't stand Spock, and Kirk is from Iowa. This is more 'Star Trek' than even The Next Generation, Voyager, Deep Space Nine from that perspective! Heck, they even had Captain Pike, who was in the original pilot for the first Star Trek, titled 'The Menagerie'.

Finally, you can be as passionate as you want about how miserable and what a failure the movie was, but most people loved it. I'm an avid Star Trek fan, and I thought it was truly worthy of the Star Trek name. It is Star Trek, and so that is why it's called that. You likely never watched Star Trek the original series as a kid like I did. Or maybe you did and it was just so long ago that you don't remember.

[devHead]

Anyone else pick up on the references to Wrath of Khan?

1. Spock's Kobayashi Maru training exercise.

2. Nero shouting 'Kirrrrrrrrk!!!'

3. The truth slugs

And Kirk eating the apple during the exercise. In 'Wrath of Khan' he was eating an apple while recounting what he did to win the scenario.

I also noticed the reference to Captain Archer and his beagle when they found Scotty on the outpost on the moon of Vulcan.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

People need to understand its not that they dont have shields, they were going up against a ship that was from 200 years in the future. Do you really think the shield would offer really any protection? There weapons were designed to damage ships with way better designed and powered shields. Just think of body armor today and how advanced weapons have became from 1800-2000. Do you think any body armor from 1800 would stand up against anything today?

What? I'm pretty sure they had shields in the TOS-era. Even if the ship was from the future, it'd still have to bring the other ship's shields down before it does full damage. Note, I said full damage. We know from previous Star Trek movies that an object can still pass through the shields of another ship, given that object has sufficient mass and acceleration. In the movie, we don't see a single shield effect. I said to myself, "Why aren't they raising their shields?" But, from what I remember they mentioned shields being at 15% or something; however, I could be wrong.

While your point may be true, I don't think so. I don't know how many countless times in Trek they've shown ships from different eras taking damage and it's shields taking impacts throughout the years from other ships from other eras. (Say that 5 times fast)

Plus, I think like others have said the movie just didn't show shield impacts. They say quite clearly in the movie that "deflectors" are holding when they are moving through the debris field, but no impacts are shown when they would obviously be there. Not to mention the Enterprise hits another ship's debris and there is no shield impact shown (but hull plates are ripped off?)

True. If they did indeed mention deflectors, then they definitely had shields. Deflectors (or deflector shields) protect the ship from debris or radiation. If the ship is in "Red Alert", then the shields are definitely up (as well as the weapons). And I'm pretty sure that's the mode the ship goes in before an engagement.

to my knowledge the shields have never blocked or shown up on a collision, they were only seen when something kind of weapon hit it. after all they are used to block electrical/laser weapons mostly and deflect minuscule objects in their way. Shields and ships from different eras? Like, the only time I've seen that was in TNG and beyond and i've never seen them show an older ship and their shields in those episodes. And those ships already had way more advanced shields some 300-400 years into the future from this reboot.

I guess you haven't watched as much Star Trek as me. There are episodes from the various series showing shockwaves hitting a ship and the shields glowing after each impact. Remember the Dominion Wars from DS9? There was an episode titled "Sacrifice of Angels" that showed a huge battle between the Federation and Dominion. In the episode, the Federation fleet consisted of a variety of ship classes ranging from Galaxy class to Miranda class (from the TOS-era). The fleet also consisted of other TOS-era ships which include the Excelsior class and Miranda class refit.

Now, watch

. It's a clip from the episode. Pay close attention to the ships under fire after 1:41, right before the two Galaxy class ships come into view. You can see a TOS-era ship under fire. There aren't any shield impacts because of budget constraints but you can clearly see the ship withstanding the damage. Anyway, you mentioned the "advanced shields" of ships 300-400 years after the events of the movie. From what I know and seen, I don't recall any episodes that took place in the 26th and 27th century.

The way they use them in Star Trek V, a shuttle pod rams through the Enterprise's shields and lands roughly in the shuttle bay. Given enough mass and acceleration an object of mass will push through the shield. Not sure if I have ever seen a torpedo ever deflected off the shields in a Trek movie either, I guess the effect would be similar to the shuttle pod to deflect the course or explosion away from the ship but not prevent an impact.

Still a silly premise for a plotline. Why not take up greviance with the Romulan council in the past? Wait a minute, you have the ability to time travel, why not go back into the past with the Jellyfish and stop the nova. To paraphrase Marty McFly, "What a minute... I got all the time in the world, I'm in a damn time machine." :rolleyes:

Exactly. It should show a little glow right before the torpedo penetrates the shields. Unfortunately, it didn't. That leads me to believe that the shield effect is "invisible" or the shields are closer to the hull (ala-Nemesis). But given what I know, that type of shield configuration is fairly new. The Enterprise-E employed it to save energy.

In the movie, they didn't have the ability to time travel. It was merely a side effect of the black hole. I'm a seasoned Trekkie and I think the plot was great. It didn't feel cheesy or unoriginal.

And Kirk eating the apple during the exercise. In 'Wrath of Khan' he was eating an apple while recounting what he did to win the scenario.

I also noticed the reference to Captain Archer and his beagle when they found Scotty on the outpost on the moon of Vulcan.

Ah, yes. I remember that. They referred to him as "Admiral Archer".

[Richard Hammond]

Still a silly premise for a plotline. Why not take up greviance with the Romulan council in the past? Wait a minute, you have the ability to time travel, why not go back into the past with the Jellyfish and stop the nova. To paraphrase Marty McFly, "What a minute... I got all the time in the world, I'm in a damn time machine." :rolleyes:

Its not silly at all Nero is a romulan and his planet was just destroyed why would he blame the romulan council, he blamed the vulcans for wasting time and waiting till romulus was destroyed till they stopped the shockwave, he just saw billions of his own people die i dont think he would be in a right frame of mind to sit back and go ah well it was my councils fault so ill just sit here as one of the very few romulans left in the universe and just accept that.

They didnt have the ability to time travel, the singularity that was created was a rip in time as well as space and it dragged both ships into the past they didnt have control of how far back they went, as stated in the film he had to wait 25 years before he could strike at Spock and Vulcan.

What? I'm pretty sure they had shields in the TOS-era. Even if the ship was from the future, it'd still have to bring the other ship's shields down before it does full damage. Note, I said full damage. We know from previous Star Trek movies that an object can still pass through the shields of another ship, given that object has sufficient mass and acceleration. In the movie, we don't see a single shield effect. I said to myself, "Why aren't they raising their shields?" But, from what I remember they mentioned shields being at 15% or something; however, I could be wrong.

i think you might have missed it when i said earlier but i think they are referring to 'shields' as polarised hull plating like from Enterprise which is why you didnt see any shield impacts.

[Jiggah]

I'll just note that Nero actually does hold the Romulan council at fault. You know that big stick that he has that he ends up sticking into one of the captains? Yea, that was a Romulan national treasure that was held by the head of the council. It's also how he was able to get a hold of an extreme advance weapons array on a mining vessel.

[Budious]

The reference to Spock Prime, isn't he really Spock Prime² since Spock Prime died at the end of Star Trek II. :o

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

i think you might have missed it when i said earlier but i think they are referring to 'shields' as polarised hull plating like from Enterprise which is why you didnt see any shield impacts.

No, I read your post. Polarized hull plating technology was introduced in the 22nd century with the NX class Earth ships (e.g. NX-01 Enterprise). Deflector shields and polarized hull plating are two different things. Let's say they did indeed refer to their shields as polarized hull plating. Why would they say something like "It's down to 20%."? In Enterprise, they always said something like "Hull plating is down." or "Hull plating is holding." They almost never referred to it in percentages. Also, different sections would go down. For example, they'd say "Hull plating is down in the aft section." I still think they had normal shields in the movie. I'm just not sure whether they were up or "invisible".

EDIT: I did a bit of research to jog my memory and it turns out the Enterprise had shields. Captain Pike issued commands to transfer power from the warp nacelles to boost the forward shields. Why we didn't see any shield effects is beyond me (for the moment). The most logical answer I could think of is invisibility. The shields are energy based so it's safe to assume that the human eye can't see them.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Anaron

[Steven P. Administrators]

The shield discussion going on here is pointless, I too have watched many episodes of Star Trek, if not all, and in Voyager you may remember Janeway deploying borg technology to Voyager that she stole from the Borg in the future, Armour.. because shields can only do so much, Armour plating is better than shields, even from the Voyager era + 20 odd years.

The collision with the Scimatar in Nemesis happened when the shields were already down, all that was left were structural shields (on some decks), this is the same as what happened in the Voyager episode with the time ship in "Year of hell". So in those 2 scenarios there would be no shield visible on collision.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

The shield discussion going on here is pointless, I too have watched many episodes of Star Trek, if not all, and in Voyager you may remember Janeway deploying borg technology to Voyager that she stole from the Borg in the future, Armour.. because shields can only do so much, Armour plating is better than shields, even from the Voyager era + 20 odd years.

The collision with the Scimatar in Nemesis happened when the shields were already down, all that was left were structural shields (on some decks), this is the same as what happened in the Voyager episode with the time ship in "Year of hell". So in those 2 scenarios there would be no shield visible on collision.

Pointless? :o

Sure, shields can only do so much. But hull plating is merely a last line of defence (aside from force fields). In Star Trek, a ship is vulnerable to damage when shields are down. In the case of Star Trek: Voyager, Janeway employed advanced ablative armour plating from the Federation in the future (not the Borg). The USS Defiant and USS Prometheus from the 24th century also had ablative armour plating; however, it was nowhere near as advanced as the ablative armour generator used by the USS Voyager. And according to Memory Alpha, Starfleet began to use the technology in 2371. I remember seeing the USS Defiant's shield go down a lot in Star Trek: Deep Space 9. The ship would've been destroyed on multiple occasions were it not for the ablative armour. All in all, I think shields are better than ablative armour as well as regular hull plating.

The collision with Enterprise-E and the Scimitar is a great example of how "weak" a ship's hull is. You may not remember this, but the Scimitar easily scraped the hull of the Enterprise-E. You could see it when the Scimitar reversed (see here). Now, imagine the kind of damage you'd see when the same hull is being fired upon by disruptors and plasma torpedoes. Take a look at this clip and see for yourself. It isn't unique to Federation ships. Watch this as well.

Anyway, the issue with the movie is the shields. They mention shields but you don't see any shield effects when the shields are supposedly up. Obviously, you wouldn't see any shield impacts if there are no shields up in the first place. But that's not what we're discussing here. :)

[Julius Caro]

Oh my God, what am I witnessing here.