OS X.5: A review from a former Wintel User

[null_]

Nice review :) I've been using Mac OS X 10.5 since last month and I love it, much better than Windows Vista IMO.

[evo_spook]

First I don't WANT my OS to organize my stuff for me, to provide me with a "user" folder and an "application" folder and whatnot. I want to know where that folder is located and usually it is not where I want it to, or down a complicated path. I create my own Program Files, on the hard drive partition I reserved for applications. I create my own user folders, on the hard drive partition I reserved for files. My own way of organizing my files is better for me than the default OS way.

Ok Windows does the same thing, but that's precisly one the gripes I have with Windows too.

As you said, Windows does it aswell, pointless rant against OSX there

Next, I hate that bulky dock at the bottom of the screen. I don't want things that inflate when I mouse over them, I don't want them jumping around gaily when I click on them. Besides aesthetical reasons, the damn thing just takes too much space.

Well, you can stop it bounching, turn it off, hide it, shrink it, how is this different from the task bar?

Next, why is it so hard to maximize a window? Double-clicking doesn't work. None of the three standard buttons do it. So since I'm not aware of yet another mac-[insert key here] shortcut here, I have to manually expand the window.

As has being explained many times before, this works different, it expands to the maximum it needs to, why expand to full screen when its just a waste?

Then they minimize at the bottom-right of the screen, yes, with a graphical representation of the contents, but so tiny its useless and much less informative than the sensible, sobre title used in Windows. Well you can make them huge if you like your dock to be huge but I'd rather make it as small as possible and make my screen estate actually useful.

How is that exactly worse the taskbar minimizes?

Next, Safari font rendering looks horrible, and Apple keyboards, mice and lcd screens are simply among the cheapest I ever saw.

Oh yeah OS X is better for multimedia. Right. I had Digital Performer hang or crash at least once everyday on the G4 I used for a year.[/rant]

waste of time

[majortom1981]

I have a question. Considering apple says vista doesnt have the feature how is time machine different then the full system backup and previous file system in vista ultimate? Its hard to even think about getting a mac because apple is consistantly lying about what vista has.

I am really asking this I am not trying to start a flamer war.

[evo_spook]

Its hard to even think about getting a mac because apple is consistantly lying about what vista has.

I don't really understand how that stops you getting a consumer device?

I don't even listen to adverts press releases what not, why would I be that anal, the only time I actually go out of my way is when they have a mac world going on and thats to see what new products there is.

If over the top advertising stops you getting a Mac, why are you on Vista rather then Linux cause surly illegal business practices is surly worse the OTT advertising?

[the evn show]

I have a question. Considering apple says vista doesnt have the feature how is time machine different then the full system backup and previous file system in vista ultimate?

The one-click "always on" setup and the UI (specifically the bit that allows restoration from within applications) is the part that matters so far as the time machine vs. volume shadow copy/etc debate goes.

Its hard to even think about getting a mac because apple is consistantly lying about what vista has.

If you're interested in product <x>, who cares what people say product <y> is lacking?

[Borbus]

Thanks for the review. The next laptop I buy may well be a mac, BootCamp will have matured even more by then.

Don't worry, you won't want to use windows after using a unix like OS anyway.

[majortom1981]

Don't worry, you won't want to use windows after using a unix like OS anyway.

I said about the apple advertising stuff because I wont just switch because everybody says its just better. I would switch because OSX has features that vista doesn't and Apple outright lies about that all the time and if you try to ask real non flaming questions to apple users or windows users you get flames and fanboys. MY example is evo spooks answer. I am not a fanboy of either OS but latyely on any website is downright impossible to get fair straight answers about either operating system.

[evo_spook]

The answers are simple, if simple straight forward questions are asked, rather then confused statements. How can you give a answer to a opinion I;m not get a device cause the company or users go OTT, as this stands for Windows, Apple and every other manufacturer.

eg: Play games - stick with Windows

eg: do .net programming - stick with windows

eg: don't like to fight your computer - OSX

To this you have to add personal preference, which is down to the individual

[Borbus]

I said about the apple advertising stuff because I wont just switch because everybody says its just better. I would switch because OSX has features that vista doesn't and Apple outright lies about that all the time and if you try to ask real non flaming questions to apple users or windows users you get flames and fanboys. MY example is evo spooks answer. I am not a fanboy of either OS but latyely on any website is downright impossible to get fair straight answers about either operating system.

I don't use use either but I can tell you OSX is a better OS than Windows.

Whether it has the "features" you want is a different matter. I prefer to have my PC exactly the way I want it, and I would probably even choose Windows over OSX for that reason if I absolutely had to (it must be possible to hack OSX, though.. so maybe I wouldn't). OSX thinks it knows the best way to do everything and forces you to do it that way. A lot of people like that, though.

[evo_spook]

if I absolutely had to (it must be possible to hack OSX, though.. so maybe I wouldn't). OSX thinks it knows the best way to do everything and forces you to do it that way. A lot of people like that, though.

OSX is very hackable, just as with its Unix background though a lot of the hacks will have to be from the Terminal.

Could you explain on who OSX forces you to do something a particular way, but windows (without extensions) doesn't?

[+Fahim S. MVC]

eg: don't like to fight your computer - OSX

For some reason, I end up fighting more with OS/X than I do with Vista. And I seem to be the only one that suffers from this...

[evo_spook]

might be length of usage, I've being using Macs a lot longer then I have Windows machines

[+Fahim S. MVC]

might be length of usage, I've being using Macs a lot longer then I have Windows machines

so now you are saying that it's experience that counts and that os/x isn't inherently easier to use? Or did I misread that?

[giga Veteran]

For some reason, I end up fighting more with OS/X than I do with Vista. And I seem to be the only one that suffers from this...

What's giving you trouble? Make a thread in Mac Software so we can help you out.

[evo_spook]

so now you are saying that it's experience that counts and that os/x isn't inherently easier to use? Or did I misread that?

In the post above I said: To this you have to add personal preference, which is down to the individual

Which will I think fit in with what you said above, personal preference and usage will always have a bearing on someones experience.

I find OSX a lot easier then Windows, is that because it is easier, because I just find it easier, or is it just due to experience, who knows I just do, cause if I say IT IS EASIER BECAUSE IT IS A EASIER SYSTEM, many Windows users will disagree, they find Windows easier, is that just due to usage?

Its a question with really no right or wrong, except for ME, OSX is easier, smoother logical on how it is set

[+Fahim S. MVC]

What's giving you trouble? Make a thread in Mac Software so we can help you out.

It's not anything I can't get over - nothing is where I would expect it to be, and I am not looking in the 'illogical Windows places', but I still don't find my experience as fluid (having been an OS/X user since 10.1 on a PowerMac and a Windows user since 95 - I didn't like Windows until Win2K). Like evo_spook said, I guess more a personal preference thing.

In the post above I said: To this you have to add personal preference, which is down to the individual

Which will I think fit in with what you said above, personal preference and usage will always have a bearing on someones experience.

I find OSX a lot easier then Windows, is that because it is easier, because I just find it easier, or is it just due to experience, who knows I just do, cause if I say IT IS EASIER BECAUSE IT IS A EASIER SYSTEM, many Windows users will disagree, they find Windows easier, is that just due to usage?

Its a question with really no right or wrong, except for ME, OSX is easier, smoother logical on how it is set

Enough of the caps already (no need to get your knickers in a twist) - I did ask if I had misread your statement!

[evo_spook]

its in caps to differentiate not to shout.

[.kvn]

Any one of you two want to try getting back to the thread? After all it's about one previous windows user's experiences on using OSX.

Edited February 7, 2008 by .kvn

[Andre S. Veteran]

As you said, Windows does it aswell, pointless rant against OSX there

I mentioned it because the OP was talking about it being an advantage in OSX.

Well, you can stop it bounching, turn it off, hide it, shrink it, how is this different from the task bar?

You already have a task bar in OSX. It's at the top of the screen. But in OSX, not only do you get a taskbar, but also that stupid bulky dock.

As has being explained many times before, this works different, it expands to the maximum it needs to, why expand to full screen when its just a waste?

Because the maximum it needs (or think it needs) is not necessarly the maximum I want it to be. So I'd like the option to simply maximize it. I don't have it. It sucks.

How is that exactly worse the taskbar minimizes?

As I said, because the taskbar minimize uses about 70% of its area for this whereas the OSX dock is cramped in right corner; and because the Windows taskbar uses titles which are much more informative than tiny graphics.

waste of time

Why am I even arguing with you I wonder :rolleyes:

[mattrobs]

Because the maximum it needs (or think it needs) is not necessarly the maximum I want it to be. So I'd like the option to simply maximize it. I don't have it. It sucks.

There's no maximise button because Mac OS X is all about multi-tasking. When you maximise a window, you eliminate that; and it goes against core features of multi-window layering and drag-and-drop. The Zoom button (expect in iTunes) aims to "maximise" the window to show maximum content without hogging the entire screen (e.g. Safari would only expand vertically, as horizontally is just webpage background.)

And if you don't like that, go ahead and set your own size. You can then toggle between your size and (?) the default.

As I said, because the taskbar minimize uses about 70% of its area for this whereas the OSX dock is cramped in right corner; and because the Windows taskbar uses titles which are much more informative than tiny graphics.

You're comparing two different ideals. The taskbar manages windows; the dock (the majority of it) manages applications. Expose manages windows.

[.exo.]

I've been using Macs since OS 7 and started using windows when NT4 was current. I can understand both points of view as I use XP and OSX Leopard. First, as far as mice go, I've tried Apple's Mighty Mouse, Microsoft, and Logitech and found from my experience that my logitech mice work best. My logitech seemed more reliable retaining it's settings than the MS mouse and easier to adapt/use-regularly than when I tried the mighty mouse. As far as the OS's are concern, I found that OSX is great for multimedia/entertainment stuff. Very easy to manage all my photos, movies, music, etc. Dashboard is great, especially since they added the ability to make your own widgets. However, I feel that some of the apps still lack in features. Safari is very fast, but I can't live without my Firefox extensions. Also ran into a lot of website compatibility issues with sites like blogger and ebay for example. Mail.app just flat out didn't work correctly with gmail using POP, while Thunderbird works flawlessly with it. MS Office on my mac is horribly slow and clunky. One issue I also found a hindrance was working with long file names. For work, I have a lot of files with very long file names and because you can't modify the OS's fonts [to use small fonts or pixel fonts], managing large archives of long filenames is a nightmare. This is where I still prefer XP for things. Office is much faster, Firefox is faster, and managing large archives with long file names is a breeze [even on lesser hardware]. And XP is very flexible to modify it's GUI [fonts, visual style, taskbar placement, etc]. and of course, some windows only apps that I can't live without, like Foobar2k ^_^. I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. Both have pros and cons, I guess it's just a matter of personal preference. I could go on-and-on comparing pros and cons of both. I still use both every day and enjoy both of them for various reasons.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

...

You already have a task bar in OSX. It's at the top of the screen. But in OSX, not only do you get a taskbar, but also that stupid bulky dock.

...

I've been using a mac daily for about 3 years, and I've never noticed this, can you point it out?

[Dane]

I want an iMac :blush:. Hopefully this summer.

[Quillz]

You already have a task bar in OSX. It's at the top of the screen. But in OSX, not only do you get a taskbar, but also that stupid bulky dock.

What? The menu bar is nothing like the taskbar in Windows.

[Andre S. Veteran]

There's no maximise button because Mac OS X is all about multi-tasking. When you maximise a window, you eliminate that; and it goes against core features of multi-window layering and drag-and-drop. The Zoom button (expect in iTunes) aims to "maximise" the window to show maximum content without hogging the entire screen (e.g. Safari would only expand vertically, as horizontally is just webpage background.)

And if you don't like that, go ahead and set your own size. You can then toggle between your size and (?) the default.

Well I'm not necessarily multitasking. When I work in Visual Studio there are times when I need other applications in my view, and there are times when I need maximum space for the code. You can have multiple panes open in VS. Then you are multitasking inside the app. Then you don't want to OS to interfere with large taskbar jumping at you or not let you easily maximize or reduce the window.

Maximizing a window with a single or double click is a convenience I've used since I started using PCs. I can't help but feel clumsy with an OS that doesn't give me that basic tool. Even Linux does.

You're comparing two different ideals. The taskbar manages windows; the dock (the majority of it) manages applications. Expose manages windows.

The Windows taskbar not only manages windows, but also applications (with the quick laucnh - much more subtle), most of the computer's basic functionality (with the start menu), applications running in the background (with the system tray), and you can even drag and drop your own folders there for quick access to your most useful stuff. For instance, I can create a folder called "Games", put all my game desktop shortcuts in there, and drop it in the bar. Then with a single click I have access to all my games.

The OS X dock takes a lot more space and does more to capture your attention (with animations, large icons), but does a whole lot less. Again, I find the Windows solution more practical and elegant.