Upcoming technology, HDD replacement makes it

By jjrambo
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jjrambo

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Having data stored in there SSD there is no need for superfetch. It can work as it's working in windows xp. It will get moved to memory when i say so, actually when i execute the program. It's gonna be fast. No need for creating overhead by moving data from ssd to ram.

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neufuse Veteran

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Having data stored in there SSD there is no need for superfetch. It can work as it's working in windows xp. It will get moved to memory when i say so, actually when i execute the program. It's gonna be fast. No need for creating overhead by moving data from ssd to ram.

You keep thinking that ;) there are situations where superfetch helps out drastically like high disk IO situations... as in database servers and high performance file servers

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Linkinfamous

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Saying something like "as HDD get faster and faster and eventually replace with something fast as your RAM" shows a serious inability to look at history and realize that things will play out as they always have:

Both will get faster. Your memory is still many orders of magnitude faster than your hard disk drive. Your computer can access is MUCH more directly than the hard drive (It doesn't have to weave its way through various controllers, which add latency and bottlenecks) and it always will be able to. That's simply the way it is.

This thread is stupid and a waste of space. Current trends show that MORE caching is the answer, not less.

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soldier1st

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Superfetch wont be useless even with faster hard drives(It just means when superfetch does load data from the hd it wont have to wait as long),the only way superfetch could become useless is when the storage medium is the same or faster speed as RAM is and not a mechanical device with moving parts but it could take years to do that but by then we will have 64GB memory as a standard instead of like 1-2GB today.

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+Mystic MVC

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I just read this about 15 minutes ago and had to agree with one of the comments left by a poster on that story. HDD's are no where near dead because SSD's are still a ways off. The price per gigabyte isn't close to resonable yet.

Sure in some sense you could say HDD's technology may be out of date (not dead) but because it is still viable and will be for some time, SSD's price won't be coming down rapidly any time soon.

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Mr. Gibs

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Even if you have a SSD drive, your computer still needs to load the program into RAM first before it can be run.

Superfetch loads the program into RAM before you use it. As a result if you have a SSD, loading that program into RAM will be faster than if you had a HDD.

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But if you think about it, superfetch isn't some expensive program that you have to pay for. It's included in Vista and probably will be included in Windows 7. Vista came out at a time when HDDs vastly outnumber SSDs [and windows 7 will probably be the same story], and hence superfetch has a reason to exist and it works well.

So why are you making superfetch seem like a bad pointless thing?

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soldier1st

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i bet the superfetch technology will be updated in some way for windows 7 and superfetch is awesome,with xp's prefetcher it did what superfetch does but it does not put stuff back in by itself it has to be reread from the HDD meaning a slowdown but superfetch avoids that slowdown and it learns how you use the system unlike xp's prefetcher which would not learn anything.

jjrambo:it seems you do not or do not want to understand how superfetch or even how prefetch works,if memory is needed superfetch will allocate that memory and whatever else your apps may need it will do that as well and will keep putting stuff into memory as that will help keep all running smoothly.there are plenty of articles about it,once ssd's price comes way down then it will be worth it but with any new tech it will take time for the price to fall way down.

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Roger H. Veteran

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only if i could get one of those in my T60. I'd be happy but as of now just gotta stick to my regular HDDs. Maybe if i win the lotto :) I'll buy a 128GB version ($3,000!!!) and slap it in there and be more than happy. I only have a 100GB HDD now anyways and that's good enough for me.

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Yusuf M. Veteran

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only if i could get one of those in my T60. I'd be happy but as of now just gotta stick to my regular HDDs. Maybe if i win the lotto :) I'll buy a 128GB version ($3,000!!!) and slap it in there and be more than happy. I only have a 100GB HDD now anyways and that's good enough for me.

A 64GB SSD used to cost $3000 six months ago. The prices are dropping but not fast enough. It'll be awhile before conventional HDDs are dead.

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episode

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A 64GB SSD used to cost $3000 six months ago. The prices are dropping but not fast enough. It'll be awhile before conventional HDDs are dead.

Not that long, especially for laptops. You can get a 32GB USB flash drive for as little as $50 now, and running a laptop on a couple of those is not out of the question.

Sure, something like a 500gb or 1tb HD will be a while, but doing something like having a small OS drive of 16gb and then the 500gb+ storage drives is not out of the question even now.

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jjrambo

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We are not talking about HDD. SSD is not conventional HDD. It's like your RAM with different purpose. There will be absolute no need for Software layer between RAM - SSD because data between RAM and SSD goes in measure of 186000 miles per seconds. I think some people have no clue what are they talking about here.

Once we get SSD, superfetch is absolutely pointless...

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Mr. Gibs

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We are not talking about HDD. SSD is not conventional HDD. It's like your RAM with different purpose. There will be absolute no need for Software layer between RAM - SSD because data between RAM and SSD goes in measure of 186000 miles per seconds. I think some people have no clue what are they talking about here.

Once we get SSD, superfetch is absolutely pointless...

No you have no idea what you are talking about.

A SSD cannot be as fast as ram, and nor can it communicate with the ram as fast as you seem to think it can. Data between a HDD and RAM goes at the same speed as between a SSD and RAM. Just it can be read of the drive faster. It still has to go through a number of controllers before it even gets to the ram, and that slows it down.

Superfetch eliminates the need for the data to be read from the drive as it is already in the ram, and hence loads faster.

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And yet again, Vista came out in 2007....lets assume that it stays for 2010. Do you think the vast majority of people out there [yes including businesses] would suddenly rush to get SSD drives for their computers just because its faster than HDD? For a good amount of time, lets say the next 5 years, HDD will be more prevalent than SSD and [according to your logic, which is wrong] superfetch still will be useful.

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So to sum it up, superfetch won't be pointless if you have either a HDD or a SSD. Just the performance gain would be greater for a HDD than a SDD.

Edited by / -Razorfold
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+BudMan MVC

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You can get a 32GB USB flash drive for as little as $50 now
Where??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....0&name=32GB

Cheapest here is $136.. thats close to 3x the price your stating.

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jjrambo

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No you have no idea what you are talking about.

A SSD cannot be as fast as ram, and nor can it communicate with the ram as fast as you seem to think it can. Data between a HDD and RAM goes at the same speed as between a SSD and RAM. Just it can be read of the drive faster. It still has to go through a number of controllers before it even gets to the ram, and that slows it down.

Superfetch eliminates the need for the data to be read from the drive as it is already in the ram, and hence loads faster.

---

And yet again, Vista came out in 2007....lets assume that it stays for 2010. Do you think the vast majority of people out there [yes including businesses] would suddenly rush to get SSD drives for their computers just because its faster than HDD? For a good amount of time, lets say the next 5 years, HDD will be more prevalent than SSD and [according to your logic, which is wrong] superfetch still will be useful.

---

So to sum it up, superfetch won't be pointless if you have either a HDD or a SSD. Just the performance gain would be greater for a HDD than a SDD.

How the hell data gets into memory from HDD...magically using wireless technology lol?

Speaking of performance gain. I see no difference with or without Superfetch on my Raptor Raid 0 configuration. Not sure why most people are narrow minded. It's not like SSD will replace conventional HDD tomorrow. SSD will get improved and fast as RAM. Either way at some point Supefetch as midleware wont be necessary. Any software solution to overcome slowness of hardware has no future, never did in PC history and it will never have....end of story.

Edited by jjrambo
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waruikoohii

Posted
Posted
How the hell data gets into memory from HDD...magically using wireless technology lol?

Speaking of performance gain. I see no difference with or without Superfetch on my Raptor Raid 0 configuration. Not sure why most people are narrow minded. It's not like SSD will replace conventional HDD tomorrow. SSD will get improved and fast as RAM. Either way at some point Supefetch as midleware wont be necessary. Any software solution to overcome slowness of hardware has no future, never did in PC history and it will never have....end of story.

However, using hardware (RAM) to cache software (the OS and apps) does have a future, as RAM will be faster than HDD's/SSD's for the foreseeable future. We're already seeing RAM bandwidth in excess of 9GB/s. SSD's are nowhere close to that. Therefore, until SSD's close the gap (and whether they will is doubtful), RAM cache's will have a future.

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Linkinfamous

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SSD will get improved and fast as RAM

Sigh. This is simply not going to happen. As the data bus between the disk drive and the processor gets faster, the one between the processor and main memory (As well as main memory itself) is going to get even faster.

Do you think we're going to drop L1 and L2 cache because memory keeps getting faster? Of course not!

Grand Master

Mr. Gibs

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How the hell data gets into memory from HDD...magically using wireless technology lol?

Speaking of performance gain. I see no difference with or without Superfetch on my Raptor Raid 0 configuration. Not sure why most people are narrow minded. It's not like SSD will replace conventional HDD tomorrow. SSD will get improved and fast as RAM. Either way at some point Supefetch as midleware wont be necessary. Any software solution to overcome slowness of hardware has no future, never did in PC history and it will never have....end of story.

Data from the SSD/HDD gets into RAM IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

Through I/O controllers....

And just because you have a nice big powerful computer, doesn't mean everyone does. If you can't seem to understand my post, stop trying to make yourself look intelligent.

The vast majority of people at the moment have HDDs, and the vast majority of people will continue having HDDs for 5 years at a minimum. Just because you don't notice any performance difference, doesn't mean others won't.

The other benefit of Superfetch is the hardrive doesn't have to be constantly spun up, and this is a power saving benefit for people with laptops. Windows loads, say word, IE, excel is loaded into memory. The hardrive can now be spun down and running at a very low power, compared to without superfetch. Without superfetch say the guy opened Word, then the drives spun down, and 20mins later he opened up Excel, the hardrives now have to spin up and excel will take longer to load [oh look a performance benefit also, who would have thought...] and this also wastes battery life. With superfetch, it learns what you use most and automatically loads into memory the instant your computer turns on...

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According to your logic, why don't we just use Cache memory (which I believe is NAND?) for everything? It's the fastest possible...and yes even faster than RAM. Hell screw that, lets just make processors that have 1tb caches...there no need for ram...sadly thats not how computers work, maybe on your planet they do..but on Earth we're still way behind.

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